Clueless once again. Is the dealership right or wrong?

yalag · 02-02-2010, 06:27 PM

This is a third part to my wheels problem. So started about 2 weeks ago I noticed that the rear left wheel started giving sounds. The sound is some klunking that is proportional to the car speed. So faster would give more frequent sounds.

Took it in to the dealer. Conclusion they give is this: the aftermarket rims that I got doesn't fit well with these cars. The middle hub of the rotor is too long and the socket in the wheel is not deep enough for it. As a result there is a 3mm gap between the wheel and the rotor. This caused the rotor to go lose and now the bearings are lose and needs replacement.

Called a friend who knows something about cars (unlike me) and said it's normal to have a gap for aftermarket wheels. They never fit
perfectly.

I don't care much about the few hundred dollars to replace the rotor. Take that money. More importantly, are my rims good? If they are not I have to pay 4000 for the BMW snow tire package and hopefully get a refund on these current set.

So can bad rims break rotars? Is there thing as bad non-fitting rims to begin with??

Fanta · 02-02-2010, 08:27 PM

Where did you bought those aftermarket wheels?

As I mention before, BMW OEM winter package is a very good choice!

JCtx · 02-02-2010, 09:51 PM

Help the experts help you man. State all wheel specs (brand, size, width, offset), use of spacers or not, use of hub rings or not, tire specs, wheel lugnut torque. Specifics of when your car sounds/acts weird would help too. Most definitely not normal. Good luck.

Victory Road · 02-02-2010, 10:23 PM

I would state what wheel, diamater, width, and offset so we can better assist you.

But I'm not sure where a gap of any sort would be ok when mounting a wheel. Are you talking about a gap between the hub and the pad of the wheel?

yalag · 02-02-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank@WSTO

I would state what wheel, diamater, width, and offset so we can better assist you.

But I'm not sure where a gap of any sort would be ok when mounting a wheel. Are you talking about a gap between the hub and the pad of the wheel?

yea the technician showed me and I tried to understand what is going on, from what I understand there is a gap between the hub and the pad of the wheel, is that normal?

hkwallace328 · 02-02-2010, 10:51 PM

dude wut wheels u got take some phtos

bunnn · 02-02-2010, 11:16 PM

Maybe your wheels needed hubrings? Everyone's been asking for specs/brand ..I'm sure they will be more insightful if you can give these information. I can't imagine "aftermarket" wheels never fitting properly; I'm sure there are, but to say all of them? That's obsurd. I have ran no-name reps, BBS, NEEZ...none of these have any fitment problems...

Edit: I just read a few of your older posts, you're dealing with a dealer..they are gonna try to blame anything and everything on "aftermarket" to get you to buy their stuff. I have to say generally speaking ...dealers in Toronto are quite incompetent when it comes to identifying problems. You'll probably have better luck at one of the more reputable local shops. Besides mechanical and servicing, I like to stay the hell away from the dealer - waste of time and money.

yalag · 02-02-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunnn

Maybe your wheels needed hubrings? Everyone's been asking for specs/brand ..I'm sure they will be more insightful if you can give these information. I can't imagine "aftermarket" wheels never fitting properly; I'm sure there are, but to say all of them? That's obsurd. I have ran no-name reps, BBS, NEEZ...none of these have any fitment problems...

Edit: I just read a few of your older posts, you're dealing with a dealer..they are gonna try to blame anything and everything on "aftermarket" to get you to buy their stuff. I have to say generally speaking ...dealers in Toronto are quite incompetent when it comes to identifying problems. You'll probably have better luck at one of the more reputable local shops. Besides mechanical and servicing, I like to stay the hell away from the dealer - waste of time and money.

I believe they are 5Zigen ZR520 just judging from the photos of the store. And of course I wouldn't know the exact measurements but I will try to get them tomorrow. Just wanted to ask if this whole "doesn't fit" story makes sense from an expert point of view.

saeedg48 · 02-02-2010, 11:43 PM

It's not your tires! I have had the same exact problem twice. Small small stones get jammed between the blake calipers and the brake discs. Either pull up your hand break 10- 15 times and crush the stone or use pressure washer to blow the stone out.
..Or just take the calipers off and put them back on.

rzm3 · 02-02-2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yalag

yea the technician showed me and I tried to understand what is going on, from what I understand there is a gap between the hub and the pad of the wheel, is that normal?

Nope. This is actually dangerous.

Sounds like the OE centering lip does not fit the bore of the wheel... See the gap in the picture below. Is this what you are referring to as the gap?

King Tut · 02-03-2010, 03:52 PM

Sounds to me like the bore size of the wheels you bought is too small to fit over the center bore of the hub which leaves a gap like the picture above. The answer is yes that can mess up your wheel hub and rotor running a gap like that. The back face of the wheel should ALWAYS mount flush to the surface of the hub. Where the heck did you find 5Zigens that fit a BMW?

yalag · 02-03-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tut

Sounds to me like the bore size of the wheels you bought is too small to fit over the center bore of the hub which leaves a gap like the picture above. The answer is yes that can mess up your wheel hub and rotor running a gap like that. The back face of the wheel should ALWAYS mount flush to the surface of the hub. Where the heck did you find 5Zigens that fit a BMW?

the face of the wheel should always mount flush to the surface of the hub? Are you absolutely sure on that? I've asked a few garage guys around the area and they all said its very common for it to not directly contact for aftermarket stuff.

Opinion from anyone else?

calintexas · 02-03-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yalag

the face of the wheel should always mount flush to the surface of the hub? Are you absolutely sure on that? I've asked a few garage guys around the area and they all said its very common for it to not directly contact for aftermarket stuff.

Opinion from anyone else?

The wheel mounting face on the hub must be flush with the mounting face of the wheel. What doesn't have to match is the outer diameter of the hub mounting surface and the outer diameter of the wheel mounting surface. Is that outer diameter what you have been talking about?

Fanta · 02-03-2010, 04:49 PM

Yalag,
One of the reason why I choose OEM is that I am lack of experience about cars, due to the fact that I cannot make a sound decision, as well as how to correct it when there comes a problem.
Those who can give you a suggestion is usually someone encountered similar problems, and learned by experience, as such they can share their valuable experience with you in the way they had spent a lot of time and effort for finding better solution.
I visited Toronto aftermarket autoshop, they always claimed all their products work perfectly fine, if there is any problem, problem only comes from end-user, not the shop.
If I buy a new car and try and error for a few times, I will need to buy another new one.
There are some people who are very experienced, go ask their opinions, you maybe better luck, such as articles wrote by
Lemans_Blue_M, Gearhead999s, rldzhao....

Goodluck!

revster · 02-04-2010, 02:10 AM

yalag,

I sympathize with your situation. It's difficult to take anyone's advice after you've gotten so many different opinions.

But even if we don't all necessarily understand why, we all seem to agree that the problem has to do with your aftermarket wheels.

Cut your losses: get those wheels off, have the dealer make the necessary repairs, then put something OEM on, and consider this an expensive lesson learned.

Good luck.

**ben@tirerack** · 02-05-2010, 07:57 AM

Yalag, maybe you cold post some pics of the gap? The step shown by Calintexas is perfectly OK. The gap shown by rldzhao would be a major problem. From your description, I suspect that it is the latter. If that is the case, you woud either need a spacer to fill the gap, or to remove the wheels.

Aftermarket wheels often have a stepped bore to allow for the use of a centering ring (to eliminate the other kind of gap that some people have mentioned, when the hole in the wheel is bigger than the hub of the car). The stepped bore may be big enough to fit over the car's hub at the beginning, but then when it hit's the step it gets stuck. That could keep it from sitting flush against the rotor.

02-02-2010, 06:27 PM	#1
yalag Private First Class 18 Rep 115 Posts Drives: M3 E92 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Clueless once again. Is the dealership right or wrong? This is a third part to my wheels problem. So started about 2 weeks ago I noticed that the rear left wheel started giving sounds. The sound is some klunking that is proportional to the car speed. So faster would give more frequent sounds. Took it in to the dealer. Conclusion they give is this: the aftermarket rims that I got doesn't fit well with these cars. The middle hub of the rotor is too long and the socket in the wheel is not deep enough for it. As a result there is a 3mm gap between the wheel and the rotor. This caused the rotor to go lose and now the bearings are lose and needs replacement. Called a friend who knows something about cars (unlike me) and said it's normal to have a gap for aftermarket wheels. They never fit perfectly. I don't care much about the few hundred dollars to replace the rotor. Take that money. More importantly, are my rims good? If they are not I have to pay 4000 for the BMW snow tire package and hopefully get a refund on these current set. So can bad rims break rotars? Is there thing as bad non-fitting rims to begin with??
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02-02-2010, 08:27 PM	#2
Fanta C 50 Rep 722 Posts Drives: 740iL, M3, Carrera Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (1)	Where did you bought those aftermarket wheels? As I mention before, BMW OEM winter package is a very good choice! Last edited by Fanta; 02-02-2010 at 08:51 PM..
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02-02-2010, 09:51 PM	#3
JCtx Major General 258 Rep 5,012 Posts Drives: No BMW yet Join Date: May 2008 Location: El Paso TX iTrader: (0)	Help the experts help you man. State all wheel specs (brand, size, width, offset), use of spacers or not, use of hub rings or not, tire specs, wheel lugnut torque. Specifics of when your car sounds/acts weird would help too. Most definitely not normal. Good luck.
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02-02-2010, 10:23 PM	#4
Victory Road Major 113 Rep 1,323 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (6)	I would state what wheel, diamater, width, and offset so we can better assist you. But I'm not sure where a gap of any sort would be ok when mounting a wheel. Are you talking about a gap between the hub and the pad of the wheel?
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02-02-2010, 10:51 PM	#6
hkwallace328 Second Lieutenant 6 Rep 252 Posts Drives: E92 M3, X5 4.8I Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver B.C. iTrader: (0)	dude wut wheels u got take some phtos
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02-02-2010, 11:16 PM	#7
bunnn Colonel 86 Rep 2,266 Posts Drives: like a grandma Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto iTrader: (12)	Maybe your wheels needed hubrings? Everyone's been asking for specs/brand ..I'm sure they will be more insightful if you can give these information. I can't imagine "aftermarket" wheels never fitting properly; I'm sure there are, but to say all of them? That's obsurd. I have ran no-name reps, BBS, NEEZ...none of these have any fitment problems... Edit: I just read a few of your older posts, you're dealing with a dealer..they are gonna try to blame anything and everything on "aftermarket" to get you to buy their stuff. I have to say generally speaking ...dealers in Toronto are quite incompetent when it comes to identifying problems. You'll probably have better luck at one of the more reputable local shops. Besides mechanical and servicing, I like to stay the hell away from the dealer - waste of time and money. __________________ Cheers Ben Last edited by bunnn; 02-02-2010 at 11:24 PM..
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02-02-2010, 11:43 PM	#9
saeedg48 Brigadier General 342 Rep 3,574 Posts Drives: Porsche 991.1 GT3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newport Beach, CA iTrader: (1)	It's not your tires! I have had the same exact problem twice. Small small stones get jammed between the blake calipers and the brake discs. Either pull up your hand break 10- 15 times and crush the stone or use pressure washer to blow the stone out. ..Or just take the calipers off and put them back on. __________________ 2015 Porsche 991.1 GT3 2015 F80 M3 -- Individual; Space Grey
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02-03-2010, 03:52 PM	#11
King Tut NASA SpecE30 Racer 82 Rep 1,307 Posts Drives: 2006 Honda S2000 TT3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL iTrader: (2)	Sounds to me like the bore size of the wheels you bought is too small to fit over the center bore of the hub which leaves a gap like the picture above. The answer is yes that can mess up your wheel hub and rotor running a gap like that. The back face of the wheel should ALWAYS mount flush to the surface of the hub. Where the heck did you find 5Zigens that fit a BMW? __________________ King Tut 2012 BMW M3 Individual: Sold lsb.ridedomain.com 1987 BMW 325is SpecE30: spece30.ridedomain.com 2009 BMW M3 Coupe: Sold e92.ridedomain.com
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02-03-2010, 04:49 PM	#14
Fanta C 50 Rep 722 Posts Drives: 740iL, M3, Carrera Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (1)	Yalag, One of the reason why I choose OEM is that I am lack of experience about cars, due to the fact that I cannot make a sound decision, as well as how to correct it when there comes a problem. Those who can give you a suggestion is usually someone encountered similar problems, and learned by experience, as such they can share their valuable experience with you in the way they had spent a lot of time and effort for finding better solution. I visited Toronto aftermarket autoshop, they always claimed all their products work perfectly fine, if there is any problem, problem only comes from end-user, not the shop. If I buy a new car and try and error for a few times, I will need to buy another new one. There are some people who are very experienced, go ask their opinions, you maybe better luck, such as articles wrote by Lemans_Blue_M, Gearhead999s, rldzhao.... Goodluck!
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02-04-2010, 02:10 AM	#15
revster Private 0 Rep 70 Posts Drives: 2008 e90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (0)	yalag, I sympathize with your situation. It's difficult to take anyone's advice after you've gotten so many different opinions. But even if we don't all necessarily understand why, we all seem to agree that the problem has to do with your aftermarket wheels. Cut your losses: get those wheels off, have the dealer make the necessary repairs, then put something OEM on, and consider this an expensive lesson learned. Good luck. __________________ revster :: 08 e90 M3 jerez/black/carbon
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02-05-2010, 07:57 AM	#16
ben@tirerack M3Post Supporting Vendor 87 Rep 964 Posts Drives: 740i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Bend, IN iTrader: (0)	Yalag, maybe you cold post some pics of the gap? The step shown by Calintexas is perfectly OK. The gap shown by rldzhao would be a major problem. From your description, I suspect that it is the latter. If that is the case, you woud either need a spacer to fill the gap, or to remove the wheels. Aftermarket wheels often have a stepped bore to allow for the use of a centering ring (to eliminate the other kind of gap that some people have mentioned, when the hole in the wheel is bigger than the hub of the car). The stepped bore may be big enough to fit over the car's hub at the beginning, but then when it hit's the step it gets stuck. That could keep it from sitting flush against the rotor. __________________ _______________________________________________ I have accepted a new position at Tire Rack and am no longer in the sales department. gary@tirerack.com is available to assist with M3 questions.
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