ESS VT2-650 Engine Blowout/Bearing Failure at 20k miles

[h4nh]

Originally Posted by erm324

Technically you can by dropping the oil pan, but is the headache worth the measly extra 25 hp over the 625 kit? No IMHO. I've raced 650 kits before when I had my 625 kit and the cars were nose and nose - I could never tell the performance difference between the cars on the street or at the track, it was spitting hairs at that point.

I would definately replace bearings for 625 kit as well because I had the same issues.

[h4nh]

Originally Posted by shadye90

In my opinion the 25hp increase may not be worth the headache of switching out the rod bearings but the peice of mind knowing that a potential issue with the bearings have been eliminated(at least in theory) is worth it at any power level..

VAC Motorsports posted their coated bearings as a maintenance item. So even with a stock engine I would consider having them done.

[Brooklyn Mark]

Originally Posted by erm324

sorry to hear about that mark...I've seen your car at ACM many times and it was one of my favorites. Did you have any ticking noises before it blew? Even after removing my blower and all engine modifications my car has a ticking (sometimes pretty loud) sound to this day. Also, its new to me that high performance rod bearings are now required for the 650 kit.....there are at least a handful local people running that kit on stock rod bearings, never heard of that until now.

No, I never had any ticking noise.

I know this bearing fix/update is pretty new, because I just upgraded from 600 to 650 less than 2-3 months ago and it was not included.

I pushed my car to the limit on a daily basis. (Last year I had some high speed problems with the kit that would cause a knocking noise at 125mph, it was later fixed with an "updated tune". Who knows maybe that caused some kind of damage, even Roman from ESS told me himself that not many people drive that hard, and they needed feedback from more aggressive owners. I did over 38,000 miles in 2 years, 20k supercharged. Top speeds on the track of 170+ I think I drove harder and more frequent than 80% of all owners of these kits. I am curious to see if more engines will start to blow as time passes and they put on more "wear/tear".

[VCMpower]

Originally Posted by h4nh

VAC Motorsports posted their coated bearings as a maintenance item. So even with a stock engine I would consider having them done.

[VCMpower]

Of course they will

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Mark

I am curious to see if more engines will start to blow as time passes and they put on more "wear/tear".

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

Of course they will

why?? def shouldn't be the case. Just like this forum has gotten people to believe that changing the bearings is "almost" like a maintenance item. Is it insurance for boost?? sure, but nothing to be overly concerned about. Cars should last 250k + miles with nothing but maintenance.

[s65e90]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Mark

No, I never had any ticking noise.

I know this bearing fix/update is pretty new, because I just upgraded from 600 to 650 less than 2-3 months ago and it was not included.

I pushed my car to the limit on a daily basis. (Last year I had some high speed problems with the kit that would cause a knocking noise at 125mph, it was later fixed with an "updated tune". Who knows maybe that caused some kind of damage, even Roman from ESS told me himself that not many people drive that hard, and they needed feedback from more aggressive owners. I did over 38,000 miles in 2 years, 20k supercharged. Top speeds on the track of 170+ I think I drove harder and more frequent than 80% of all owners of these kits. I am curious to see if more engines will start to blow as time passes and they put on more "wear/tear".

um that would def concern me. You should not be able to hear an audible knock. At that point I would say maybe something was compromised.

[VCMpower]

Time will tell. But you are right, should not be the case. Long oil service intervals and tighter oil clearances will show their true colors. Boost does not have all to do with this.

Originally Posted by s65e90

why?? def shouldn't be the case. Just like this forum has gotten people to believe that changing the bearings is "almost" like a maintenance item. Is it insurance for boost?? sure, but nothing to be overly concerned about. Cars should last 250k + miles with nothing but maintenance.

[dmppdx]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

Time will tell. But you are right, should not be the case. Long oil service intervals and tighter oil clearances will show their true colors. Boost does not have all to do with this.

How could boost not having anything to do with it? Even with the best tune and under the best conditions more pressure equals more friction, more wear and everything else. The only people seem to be not believing this are people with SC.

[VCMpower]

Hey, I believe there is an issue. I have said it before. SC or not, it is happening. People with NA cars do not drive them easier or sit in the driveway until temps get up a bit before driving off. In fact I drove my car more aggressivley more frequently when it was NA. A client just traded his 2010 M3 in as lease was over. His car had 2 oil changes. Pity the person that buys that car.

Originally Posted by dmppdx

How could boost not having anything to do with it? Even with the best tune and under the best conditions more pressure equals more friction, more wear and everything else. The only people seem to be not believing this are people with SC.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

Hey, I believe there is an issue. I have said it before. SC or not, it is happening. People with NA cars do not drive them easier or sit in the driveway until temps get up a bit before driving off. In fact I drove my car more aggressivley more frequently when it was NA. A client just traded his 2010 M3 in as lease was over. His car had 2 oil changes. Pity the person that buys that car.

If there is an issue, supercharging would both increase the rate at which the failure may occur and the odds of the failure happening.

The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long ... the S65 is no exception to this.

I hope the OP gets it worked out, it seems as though this is an anomaly with that low mileage.

[VCMpower]

Agree, I was simply saying SC is not the sole contributor to this.

Originally Posted by thekurgan

If there is an issue, supercharging would both increase the rate at which the failure may occur and the odds of the failure happening.

The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long ... the S65 is no exception to this.

I hope the OP gets it worked out, it seems as though this is an anomaly with that low mileage.

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

Agree, I was simply saying SC is not the sole contributor to this.

Completely agree; from what I've read, it seems like a sudden oil starvation issue, in which case, a dry sump conversion may be in order for supercharging? I'm not knowledgeable as to that cost, but I imagine it's high.

[baba louey]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn Mark

No, I never had any ticking noise.

I know this bearing fix/update is pretty new, because I just upgraded from 600 to 650 less than 2-3 months ago and it was not included.

I pushed my car to the limit on a daily basis. (Last year I had some high speed problems with the kit that would cause a knocking noise at 125mph, it was later fixed with an "updated tune". Who knows maybe that caused some kind of damage, even Roman from ESS told me himself that not many people drive that hard, and they needed feedback from more aggressive owners. I did over 38,000 miles in 2 years, 20k supercharged. Top speeds on the track of 170+ I think I drove harder and more frequent than 80% of all owners of these kits. I am curious to see if more engines will start to blow as time passes and they put on more "wear/tear".

At one time this thread discussed whether warranty would cover this. After reading the above quote, my god BMW better NOT cover this. You hop it up, drive it all the time like your pants are on fire, and have high speed detonation with an aftermarket SC. Hmmmm.....me thinks this is more than a con rod bearing problem. Cause of engine failure, the owner.

[h4nh]

Originally Posted by baba louey

At one time this thread discussed whether warranty would cover this. After reading the above quote, my god BMW better NOT cover this. You hop it up, drive it all the time like your pants are on fire, and have high speed detonation with an aftermarket SC. Hmmmm.....me thinks this is more than a con rod bearing problem. Cause of engine failure, the owner.

Lol seriously who would spend 18k on a supercharger and baby the car. People want to upgrade the power to run it hard so parts are bound to wear out. I wouldn't blame the owner for driving the car as it was intended to.

[Jbook]

Originally Posted by h4nh

I would definately replace bearings for 625 kit as well because I had the same issues.

Aren't you the one that put 91 and 89 octane in a supercharged car tuned for 93 and blew your motor?

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by h4nh

Lol seriously who would spend 18k on a supercharger and baby the car. People want to upgrade the power to run it hard so parts are bound to wear out. I wouldn't blame the owner for driving the car as it was intended to.

The m3 was not made for this kind of power. Of course it can handle more power. but 200hp+ over factory and driven hard...... dam.

[baba louey]

Originally Posted by h4nh

Lol seriously who would spend 18k on a supercharger and baby the car. People want to upgrade the power to run it hard so parts are bound to wear out. I wouldn't blame the owner for driving the car as it was intended to.

Col (crying out loud). I would blame the owner for taking a 414hp engine and adding 200+hp to it without beefing up any other part on the engine. Then to think about trying to trick BMW into warrantying it! This is why when we have a real warranty issue, we have to bend over backwards to get our just deserts from BMW.

[h4nh]

Originally Posted by Jbook

Aren't you the one that put 91 and 89 octane in a supercharged car tuned for 93 and blew your motor?

Yeah I did. It blew up and I bought a new engine and it's currently being built for low compression

[h4nh]

Originally Posted by baba louey

Col (crying out loud). I would blame the owner for taking a 414hp engine and adding 200+hp to it without beefing up any other part on the engine. Then to think about trying to trick BMW into warrantying it! This is why when we have a real warranty issue, we have to bend over backwards to get our just deserts from BMW.

OP never said he was going to try to trick the dealer. If your 20k engine blew up would you have any thoughts of trying to getting it warrantied if your warranty was not up yet?

Nobody really had issues with the E9X m3 till recently for them to figure out internals need to be built. There's some M3s here that have been supercharged 80k+ miles out of it with no issues. So most would assume it would be no issue.

I'm sure more people have blown up their engines and have not posted it publicly because people start pointing fingers and bashing on them. Just be happy he posted it so other forum members can be more cautious.

[Jbook]

Originally Posted by h4nh

Yeah I did. It blew up and I bought a new engine and it's currently being built for low compression

[Evolve Automotive]

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