ESS VT2-650 Engine Blowout/Bearing Failure at 20k miles

[dmppdx]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

.....if you only knew!!! Where did I ever say they need to warranty the engine? What I said was that they altered the content of a kit for concerns over reliability. As such, should they make good to the people who may have suffered a loss without this alteration?

Can you prove the loss was the result of this modification or that different bearings would have prevented it? I'm sure not. That is why you are assuming the risk when you start significant mods because you are making the decision to go down a path that leads to no longer being able to prove what caused any sort of mechanical failure.

The only reason you can rely on a factory warranty to cover anything is because there is no one else they can blame when failure happens unless there is some proof that the owner absolutely neglected the car or used it for a purpose it was not designed for which puts the burden on the manufacture to prove this.

[RingMeister01]

No mention of the fuel delivery system. It is as important to have a healthy fuel setup as it is to have a LC motor with these higher pressure systems.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

They are a bad example. Hennessy has a terrible reputation when it comes to service and warranty claims.

They have actually gotten little better. I very recently came from highly modded GM cars(which are 10x cheaper to mod and fix). So i know what there builds have been lately.
but again i would never fully trust them either! nor would i buy from them. but thats the ONLY shop i know of that has a "warranty"

[jacobe92]

Originally Posted by dmk08

His car is a 2011 shouldn't it have the magical upgraded bearings?

No such thing! Mine is a 2011 NA DCT and I had a Rod Bearing failure @ 31,124 miles. Covered by warranty.

[exmowner]

Would you happen to have a copy of this list?

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

No mention of the fuel delivery system. It is as important to have a healthy fuel setup as it is to have a LC motor with these higher pressure systems.

+1

[Edjay]

Originally Posted by Ezio

They have actually gotten little better. I very recently came from highly modded GM cars(which are 10x cheaper to mod and fix). So i know what there builds have been lately.
but again i would never fully trust them either! nor would i buy from them. but thats the ONLY shop i know of that has a "warranty"

They had good service ratings at the beginning, but I think when the money got tough they started to go downhill. Lets see how it turns out for the GM guys.

Originally Posted by LarThaL

What I said was that they altered the content of a kit for concerns over reliability. As such, should they make good to the people who may have suffered a loss without this alteration?

Again the answer to that is no. If this kits were destroying engines under a 1,000 miles I can understand that its a kit that is too aggressive for the engine. But most of the motors that "grenades" lasted well over 15,000 miles.

You have to understand if it was that reliable to squeeze another 250 hp out of the motor then BMW would have probably come a lot closer to that number. Adding supercharger to a motor like S65 is asking for reliability issues down the line. Cant fault BMW for that, and cant fault S/C manufacturer for that. That is just part of the game when you start moding

[Boxed]

My 11' had rod bearings replaced a few months ago as well under warranty, car started making clicking noise from the driver side. BMW took apart the engine 2-3 times before replacing the rod bearings.

[dbs600]

Originally Posted by Boxed

BMW took apart the engine 2-3 times before replacing the rod bearings.

F'n rediculous; what's wrong with this company!?

[Giggs]

OP, do you have an update for us on what BMW said about your car? I know a lot of people are chiming in here with "what if's" and such, but we want to hear from you what the latest is.

[SenorFunkyPants]

What are the sort of failure rates being experienced?
If the failure rate of unmodified engines is say 1 in 5000
and the failure rate of supercharged engines is 1 in 50
then the odds of the OPs failure being due to factory faulty rod bearings is 1%.
Obviously these are guessimates but the unmodified rod bearing failure rate does seem to be anecdotally very small....the supercharged engine failure rate is far more of a guess on my part.

[W///]

Originally Posted by jacobe92

No such thing! Mine is a 2011 NA DCT and I had a Rod Bearing failure @ 31,124 miles. Covered by warranty.

Did you have a ticking noise? Or did your engine grenade itself like the OP's.

[erm324]

sorry to hear about that mark...I've seen your car at ACM many times and it was one of my favorites. Did you have any ticking noises before it blew? Even after removing my blower and all engine modifications my car has a ticking (sometimes pretty loud) sound to this day. Also, its new to me that high performance rod bearings are now required for the 650 kit.....there are at least a handful local people running that kit on stock rod bearings, never heard of that until now.

Moderators, I think this thread should be moved to the engine section.

[chris3g]

have any of you guys with ticking or actual bearing failure ever had any oil analysis done? Theoretically bearing failure should be somewhat predictable based on the results.

The 650 kit appears to have been quietly updated to included high performance rod bearings somewhat recently, it would be good to hear from ESS about it though.

[baba louey]

Originally Posted by chris3g

have any of you guys with ticking or actual bearing failure ever had any oil analysis done? Theoretically bearing failure should be somewhat predictable based on the results.

The 650 kit appears to have been quietly updated to included high performance rod bearings somewhat recently, it would be good to hear from ESS about it though.

Can one change out the rod bearings from below? (ie. keep engine in car and just drop the pan). Changing these things sounds like a lot of work and risks marring other parts.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by dbs600

F'n rediculous; what's wrong with this company!?

It does matter if you have a caddy, benz, Audi, BMW etc ... they all try to fix the problem like this first. It takes little for them to jump straight to new engine unless the engine is totally screwed.

[VCMpower]

yep

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

I think it is impossible to get reliable data on this. Owners on this forum are a minuscule sample of owners across the world, and my guess is supercharged owners are more likely to be on this forum than your average M3 owner worldwide.

Also, the minuscule amount of supercharged S65's will skew the data by a huge margin. The uneven proportions would render the data unreliable at best.

[chris3g]

Originally Posted by baba louey

Can one change out the rod bearings from below? (ie. keep engine in car and just drop the pan). Changing these things sounds like a lot of work and risks marring other parts.

i think you can but even so I've seen anywhere from 8 - 15 hours to do it.

[FLOSS M]

Originally Posted by shadye90

No..I meant BMW NA owned dealership. Here on the East cost there were 2 dealers owned by BMW NA..One of them is no longer owned by BMW NA anymore

Manhattan BMW is corp owned I believe.

[erm324]

Originally Posted by baba louey

Can one change out the rod bearings from below? (ie. keep engine in car and just drop the pan). Changing these things sounds like a lot of work and risks marring other parts.

Technically you can by dropping the oil pan, but is the headache worth the measly extra 25 hp over the 625 kit? No IMHO. I've raced 650 kits before when I had my 625 kit and the cars were nose and nose - I could never tell the performance difference between the cars on the street or at the track, it was spitting hairs at that point.

[shadye90]

Originally Posted by erm324

Technically you can by dropping the oil pan, but is the headache worth the measly extra 25 hp over the 625 kit? No IMHO. I've raced 650 kits before when I had my 625 kit and the cars were nose and nose - I could never tell the performance difference between the cars on the street or at the track, it was spitting hairs at that point.

In my opinion the 25hp increase may not be worth the headache of switching out the rod bearings but the peice of mind knowing that a potential issue with the bearings have been eliminated(at least in theory) is worth it at any power level..

[shadye90]

Originally Posted by FLOSS M

Manhattan BMW is corp owned I believe.

That is correct