Problem with BMW and my springs...HELP!

jojogoya88 · 11-01-2009, 09:28 PM

So for the past 3 weeks ive had the DSC failure/ABS failure lights on, so esssentially i've been driving a Lemans car, living on the edge, hah. Anyways, during these 3 weeks there were a few days (when it warmed up), that the lights went away, awkward? And so...

I scheduled a service appt 2 weeks ago on saturday to get it looked at only to find that they dotn perform diagnostics on saturdays. Then went in the following week on a friday to get it looked at (without a appt), and they couldnt look at it. So the following week i brought it in (this past friday). Whats funny is that they booked me for the friday by accident, i was starting to get kinda of annoyed at this point. (keep in mind the unnecessary traveling and the fact im driving a car in the rain without any AIDS)...

KEEP IN MIND- I had a blow out on left rear so its new, and the right rear is old/worn away, and i have H&R Springs. BMW service charged me for a new tire and alignment for that, happened over a month ago.

Get the call at 4:30, by a woman only to make me HIGHLY angry and frustrated during the course of the 20 minute conversation. She starts saying that the most apparent problem is that i have an aftermaket suspension and the alignment is off, caushing my right rear tire to shed tread. I immediatly correct her, telling her about the blow out a month back, and that my alignment is correct because THEY performed it, she was confused as to why would they perform an alignment just because of a tire replacment....WEIRD huh?. So the conversation continues...She then starts to tell me that i have the lights because my 'aftermarket suspension" lowered the ride height, and the car is throwing the code, and they CANNOT fix it under warranty. That i need to take off the springs and go back to stock...which "might fix the problem". She also starts saying that "these aftermarket suspension" are supposed to be provided with software that should be downloaded into the car to tell the car that the height is non-stock. I kept on arguing with her saying that theres a very slight chance that the springs are causing the DSC/ABS failure. I also told her that ive had this problem even before the springs for a couple of days back when the weather was warmer, and that the problem went away a few times recently.

The SA even asked me that did the problem start to arise when the weather started to get colder, which it did. I told the woman that the SA asked me this and she was again confused as to why would the SA ask me this. We kept going back and fourth about this for a while...NOW check this out....

She then starts telling me that a MIGHT need a new LEFT REAR wheel bushing??? and says she can get me a price for that if i wanted one...i was FURIOUS! I asked her how could i need a new bushing when the car is only 9xxx miles old...and the suspension has only been on the car for 4xxx miles, she couldnt even give me a complete answer.

I then asked to speak to the technician and it was too late because he left already. I asked her what if i threw my winter tires on, and she immediatly agreed that i should, saying it might throw the code away and to COME ON DOWN AND PICK up the car, to see if thats the answer to the problem.

All in all, im extremely frustrated with the situation. I got the springs installed by a reputable shop, and i know that they wouldnt screw anything up. It's my first BMW, and i dont want it to be my last...I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO. However, im going tomorrow to pick up the car and speak to the service manager to tell him the situation. PLEASE, if anyone can comment to my situation and help me out, i would be extremely grateful.

-Joe

Kev · 11-01-2009, 09:35 PM

Good luck, there seems to be some post floating on here about a similar problem. If it's not going any where, have the car towed to the shop that put on your springs and ask them to reverse it and take it to a different dealer to have them diagnose the problem.

However, one word of caution, there are scattered reports that pot holes / poor road surface plus after-market springs resulted in the damaged shocks. Since you do live in pot hole central, just a little word of advise.

jojogoya88 · 11-01-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev

Good luck, there seems to be some post floating on here about a similar problem. If it's not going any where, have the car towed to the shop that put on your springs and ask them to reverse it and take it to a different dealer to have them diagnose the problem.

However, one word of caution, there are scattered reports that pot holes / poor road surface plus after-market springs resulted in the damaged shocks. Since you do live in pot hole central, just a little word of advise.

I hear ya, but im extremely cautious about pot holes. Im pretty sure i've avoided most...i dont like the situation im in....

disruptv · 11-01-2009, 09:46 PM

what dealership is this in long island? & what shop did the install?

jml · 11-01-2009, 09:47 PM

Take the springs off and take it to another dealer. There is no way they are going to fix it with aftermarket springs on it. Be prepared to go all the way (legally that is).

BMW is usually easy to deal with, but the moment you have an aftermarket part within a spitting distance of a problem, they get ugly quickly - at least that's was my experience with my old E46. They didn't end up caring much about the motons, they just cared about the non-stock alignment and ride height.

MrHarris · 11-01-2009, 09:48 PM

Are they trying to deny warranty coverage?

jojogoya88 · 11-01-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disruptv

what dealership is this in long island? & what shop did the install?

Hassel BMW service on cleveland avenue. I forgot the name of the shop, but the mechanic has TONS of expereince with BMW's.

disruptv · 11-01-2009, 09:56 PM

i would try habberstad service dept...they r mod friendly and ask for Joe G....good people over there

jojogoya88 · 11-01-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disruptv

i would try habberstad service dept...they r mod friendly and ask for Joe G....good people over there

Thanks for letting me know...will keep in mind

jojogoya88 · 11-02-2009, 12:25 PM

Update- Just got back from Service, i sat down with service manager and tech who worked on car. The receipt said i had a bad left REAR axle and wheel BEARING....a bunch of bullshit huh? We ended up coming to a conclusion of taking off my wheel spacers, and replacing the bearing...ALL UNDER WARRANTY, which is the way it should be either way.

Can anyone explain why this is happening on a brand new car (9xxx miles)???

bogdan · 11-02-2009, 04:20 PM

I still fail to see what a wheel bearing or shock travel have anything to do with the operation of the DSC system, which reads from wheel speed and throttle inputs. There is nothing in the shock body itself that would trigger the light. A wheel bearing will make nosie, but not set off a DSC light.

Can you post a copy of the receipt on here? (feel free to blank out your name)

It sounds like they are just guessing. I'm curious to see what fault codes they followed to lead to a "spring problem," because if there is one, I haven't heard of it. A failed wheel bearing can sometimes be the cause of a large spacer, but I have only seen this very rarely.

jojogoya88 · 11-02-2009, 05:04 PM

Well the spacers are being taken off....getting the car back wednesday..and will definintly post a picture of the receipt.

They said that the light has to do something with the suspension...and the rotations the wheel is making....the DSC reads the rotations and throws the codes...i really dont even know what they told me...

But will be sure to post up the receipt.

AMPowerJ · 11-02-2009, 05:20 PM

You don't have different sized rear tires do you on each side? That is the only thing that I can think of that would cause DSC issues. You said you replaced one of them. Did you check to make sure it was the same size as the other?

jojogoya88 · 11-02-2009, 05:48 PM

Im almost positive that they are the same size...just the tread percentage is different on them. I bought the tire from BMW, so i guess its OEM size, so i would imagine its the exact same. I will check that too

TOOMANYCARS · 11-02-2009, 07:58 PM

Hassel BMW gave you crap? Wow, didn't expect that. Last time I went in with exhaust, wheel spacers, & pulley for an oil change, SA and technician didn't say a word about them, in fact, they compliment on how the car looked.

Leozap · 11-02-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojogoya88

Hassel BMW service on cleveland avenue. I forgot the name of the shop, but the mechanic has TONS of expereince with BMW's.

I hate that mf---ing dealer. I rated their service all 1s and the saleman all 1s. They screwed me up after I signed the paper to buy the car and I didn't like their service.

bogdan · 11-03-2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojogoya88

Well the spacers are being taken off....getting the car back wednesday..and will definintly post a picture of the receipt.

They said that the light has to do something with the suspension...and the rotations the wheel is making....the DSC reads the rotations and throws the codes...i really dont even know what they told me...

But will be sure to post up the receipt.

Suspension travel has absolutely no effect on wheel speed, neither do the spacers. Wheel speed sensors are near the hub. Sounds like they are feeding you a bunch of horse shit.

Even if the overall diameter is off a little compared to stock, DSC reads from a difference in wheel speed compared to what the car is currently reading.

Either way, I hope you get fixed, but it honestly sounds like the technician is either lazy/stupid, and does not want to diagnose the problem. I'm sorry you're having to put up with this. I am a service writer, and would never let half-ass answers/diagnosis like this cause one of my customers headaches like this.

MN M3 · 11-03-2009, 12:25 PM

I agree 100%. The amount of travel a replacement set of springs allow has NOTHING to do with the wheel rotation. I have a set of H&R springs on my car, and I've had no problems to date with anything like this. The springs aren't the issue here - they are simply clueless about what the real problem(s) is/are.

jojogoya88 · 11-03-2009, 07:42 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys. I figured it was a bunch of bull shit, but unfortunately i dont have enough knowledge on modifying cars in order to put up a good argument with them. However, i guess i did a good enough job to have everything under warranty.

jojogoya88 · 11-05-2009, 06:10 PM

I first Receipt, before i spoke to the SM/Tech....

""" Customer states DSC Light comes on when driving:
Cause: Car has aftermarket springs
DIAG/BLL DCS light on, not warranty

Advisor notes, spoke with client, first , warranty is only determined after car has been diagnosed, for this reason a disgnosis fee of $189.95 flat rate is applied for any non covered items, since this was not explained to the client at write up the fee is waived, Client is aware now for the future. Next this car has an aftermarket spring set up, these are not BMW factory parts and were not installed by factory trained techs, therefore there is no coverage, the DSC light is related there is no signal from LEFT REAR SPEED SENSOR to start car MAY NEED LEFT REAR AXLE AND BEARING, due to aftermarket springs this will not be covered under facotry warranty. CLient has agreed to put on winter tires and see if light goes out. I explained tha tthis may not happen but he can try. I also explained that the car needs facotry suspension back on car to get proper diagnosis and repair.
Tech notes: Performed short test--found fault for LR AXLE and BEARING--found aftermarket suspension springs on vehicle--Non warranty item--1 hr Diag.

-------------------------
Customer states all malfunctions lights on
Amount Due: 0.00 """
---------------------------------------------------------------------

My second Receipt (After everything was agreed upon)

""" Customer States DSC LIGHT is on and Brake light came on that at the same time
CAUSE: L//R wheel bearing fault
3341151 Replacing wheel bearings of left OR right rear axle shaft (n/c)
1 33-41-6-762-321 Angular contact ball (n/c)
11-33-41-1-133-785 Collar Nut:331080 (n/c)

10019 Dis Test. Fault in DSC for L/R wheel speed currently pressent. Rant test plan. Tested speed sensor OK Checked and FOund wheel bearing to be DEFECTIVE. Rep L/R wheel bearing. Road Tested. OK
Amount Due: 0.00 """

So they took off my spacers. I still have the springs but i would really like it if i threw the spacers back on. What do you guys think about this "wheel bearing" bullshit? IS it possible it could of been b/c of my springs/spacers???

Please comment.

Thanks

-Joe

mastek · 11-06-2009, 04:44 AM

Its possible (but unlikely) that your spacers are off enough to cause the DSC to throw a code based on vibrations --- or --- they were imporperly installed (i know, how??) ... but u never know.

Drive for a week w/o the spacers -- then inspect the spacers for damage, warp, anything ... and put them back on -- if the codes come back up -- you'll know its the spacers.

bogdan · 11-06-2009, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Tech notes: Performed short test--found fault for LR AXLE and BEARING

Alright, either the tech is stupid, lazy, or does not know how to write a story.

There is no fault that a wheel bearing or axle will set in the computer. NONE! They are mechanical components. There is a wheel speed sensor that reads vehicle speed, but that's it. I still am of the opinion that they are simply incopetent, and telling you a story.

Here is a diagram of the rear wheel bearing. No electronic components.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...31&hg=33&fg=40

11-01-2009, 09:28 PM	#1
jojogoya88 Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 262 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 IB Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: LI, Ny iTrader: (1)	Problem with BMW and my springs...HELP! So for the past 3 weeks ive had the DSC failure/ABS failure lights on, so esssentially i've been driving a Lemans car, living on the edge, hah. Anyways, during these 3 weeks there were a few days (when it warmed up), that the lights went away, awkward? And so... I scheduled a service appt 2 weeks ago on saturday to get it looked at only to find that they dotn perform diagnostics on saturdays. Then went in the following week on a friday to get it looked at (without a appt), and they couldnt look at it. So the following week i brought it in (this past friday). Whats funny is that they booked me for the friday by accident, i was starting to get kinda of annoyed at this point. (keep in mind the unnecessary traveling and the fact im driving a car in the rain without any AIDS)... KEEP IN MIND- I had a blow out on left rear so its new, and the right rear is old/worn away, and i have H&R Springs. BMW service charged me for a new tire and alignment for that, happened over a month ago. Get the call at 4:30, by a woman only to make me HIGHLY angry and frustrated during the course of the 20 minute conversation. She starts saying that the most apparent problem is that i have an aftermaket suspension and the alignment is off, caushing my right rear tire to shed tread. I immediatly correct her, telling her about the blow out a month back, and that my alignment is correct because THEY performed it, she was confused as to why would they perform an alignment just because of a tire replacment....WEIRD huh?. So the conversation continues...She then starts to tell me that i have the lights because my 'aftermarket suspension" lowered the ride height, and the car is throwing the code, and they CANNOT fix it under warranty. That i need to take off the springs and go back to stock...which "might fix the problem". She also starts saying that "these aftermarket suspension" are supposed to be provided with software that should be downloaded into the car to tell the car that the height is non-stock. I kept on arguing with her saying that theres a very slight chance that the springs are causing the DSC/ABS failure. I also told her that ive had this problem even before the springs for a couple of days back when the weather was warmer, and that the problem went away a few times recently. The SA even asked me that did the problem start to arise when the weather started to get colder, which it did. I told the woman that the SA asked me this and she was again confused as to why would the SA ask me this. We kept going back and fourth about this for a while...NOW check this out.... She then starts telling me that a MIGHT need a new LEFT REAR wheel bushing??? and says she can get me a price for that if i wanted one...i was FURIOUS! I asked her how could i need a new bushing when the car is only 9xxx miles old...and the suspension has only been on the car for 4xxx miles, she couldnt even give me a complete answer. I then asked to speak to the technician and it was too late because he left already. I asked her what if i threw my winter tires on, and she immediatly agreed that i should, saying it might throw the code away and to COME ON DOWN AND PICK up the car, to see if thats the answer to the problem. All in all, im extremely frustrated with the situation. I got the springs installed by a reputable shop, and i know that they wouldnt screw anything up. It's my first BMW, and i dont want it to be my last...I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO. However, im going tomorrow to pick up the car and speak to the service manager to tell him the situation. PLEASE, if anyone can comment to my situation and help me out, i would be extremely grateful. -Joe __________________ 2008 E90 M3 - Interlagos Blue (stock for now)
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11-01-2009, 09:35 PM	#2
Kev Critical Care Anesthesiologist 481 Rep 8,828 Posts Drives: SMB F83 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (24) Garage List 2009 Porsche 911 Ca ... [9.50]	Good luck, there seems to be some post floating on here about a similar problem. If it's not going any where, have the car towed to the shop that put on your springs and ask them to reverse it and take it to a different dealer to have them diagnose the problem. However, one word of caution, there are scattered reports that pot holes / poor road surface plus after-market springs resulted in the damaged shocks. Since you do live in pot hole central, just a little word of advise. __________________ kev { divinum est sedate dolorem } "your friendly neighborhood critical care anesthesiologist"
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11-01-2009, 09:46 PM	#4
disruptv Major 86 Rep 1,139 Posts Drives: 3M Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ny iTrader: (10) Garage List 09 3m [0.00]	what dealership is this in long island? & what shop did the install?
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11-01-2009, 09:47 PM	#5
jml Major 128 Rep 1,144 Posts Drives: X5M, GT3RS, GT4 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (3)	Take the springs off and take it to another dealer. There is no way they are going to fix it with aftermarket springs on it. Be prepared to go all the way (legally that is). BMW is usually easy to deal with, but the moment you have an aftermarket part within a spitting distance of a problem, they get ugly quickly - at least that's was my experience with my old E46. They didn't end up caring much about the motons, they just cared about the non-stock alignment and ride height.
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11-01-2009, 09:48 PM	#6
MrHarris yodog 197 Rep 5,026 Posts Drives: '86 Corolla Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Diamond Bar, Ca iTrader: (5) Garage List 2009 BMW [10.00]	Are they trying to deny warranty coverage? __________________ 2009 E92 M3 \| Alpine White \| Black Extended \| Advan RS \| Turner Test Pipes \| Dinan Axle-Back \| OETuning \| Eibach Springs \| UUC SSK \| VRS Front Lip \| VRS Type I Diffuser \| Matte Black \| RPi Scoops \| MS Filter \| Yokohama AD08 \| F1 Pinnacle Special Thanks: Gintani \| OETuning \| eAs
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11-01-2009, 09:56 PM	#8
disruptv Major 86 Rep 1,139 Posts Drives: 3M Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ny iTrader: (10) Garage List 09 3m [0.00]	i would try habberstad service dept...they r mod friendly and ask for Joe G....good people over there
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11-02-2009, 12:25 PM	#10
jojogoya88 Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 262 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 IB Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: LI, Ny iTrader: (1)	Update- Just got back from Service, i sat down with service manager and tech who worked on car. The receipt said i had a bad left REAR axle and wheel BEARING....a bunch of bullshit huh? We ended up coming to a conclusion of taking off my wheel spacers, and replacing the bearing...ALL UNDER WARRANTY, which is the way it should be either way. Can anyone explain why this is happening on a brand new car (9xxx miles)??? __________________ 2008 E90 M3 - Interlagos Blue (stock for now)
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11-02-2009, 05:04 PM	#12
jojogoya88 Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 262 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 IB Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: LI, Ny iTrader: (1)	Well the spacers are being taken off....getting the car back wednesday..and will definintly post a picture of the receipt. They said that the light has to do something with the suspension...and the rotations the wheel is making....the DSC reads the rotations and throws the codes...i really dont even know what they told me... But will be sure to post up the receipt. __________________ 2008 E90 M3 - Interlagos Blue (stock for now)
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11-02-2009, 05:20 PM	#13
AMPowerJ One mod leads to another ... 416 Rep 2,900 Posts Drives: 2014 F10 M5 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Blythewood, SC iTrader: (10)	You don't have different sized rear tires do you on each side? That is the only thing that I can think of that would cause DSC issues. You said you replaced one of them. Did you check to make sure it was the same size as the other? __________________ Current: 2014 F10 M5 Previous: 2015 F80 M3, 2013 E92 M3, 2013 F10 M5, 2009 E90 M3, 1998 E36 M3
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11-02-2009, 05:48 PM	#14
jojogoya88 Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 262 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 IB Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: LI, Ny iTrader: (1)	Im almost positive that they are the same size...just the tread percentage is different on them. I bought the tire from BMW, so i guess its OEM size, so i would imagine its the exact same. I will check that too __________________ 2008 E90 M3 - Interlagos Blue (stock for now)
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11-02-2009, 07:58 PM	#15
TOOMANYCARS Second Lieutenant 2 Rep 221 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: V.O.W iTrader: (0)	Hassel BMW gave you crap? Wow, didn't expect that. Last time I went in with exhaust, wheel spacers, & pulley for an oil change, SA and technician didn't say a word about them, in fact, they compliment on how the car looked. __________________ Everything is work in progress.
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11-03-2009, 12:25 PM	#18
MN M3 Private First Class 5 Rep 133 Posts Drives: 2009 E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Southern MN, USA iTrader: (0)	I agree 100%. The amount of travel a replacement set of springs allow has NOTHING to do with the wheel rotation. I have a set of H&R springs on my car, and I've had no problems to date with anything like this. The springs aren't the issue here - they are simply clueless about what the real problem(s) is/are. __________________ 2009 E92 M3 - Jerez Black/Black w/ black carbon leather interior, 6 spd., Cold, Premium, Technology, 19" OZ Racing wheels (black), iPod/USB. Mods: aPe air filter, Borla exhaust, H&R sport springs, UUC Evo3 SS w/ DSSR, Power Pulley Kit, carbon kidney grills, Vorsteiner front air dam, carbon side gills, smoked side markers
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11-03-2009, 07:42 PM	#19
jojogoya88 Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 262 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 IB Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: LI, Ny iTrader: (1)	Thanks for the feedback guys. I figured it was a bunch of bull shit, but unfortunately i dont have enough knowledge on modifying cars in order to put up a good argument with them. However, i guess i did a good enough job to have everything under warranty. __________________ 2008 E90 M3 - Interlagos Blue (stock for now)
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11-05-2009, 06:10 PM	#20
jojogoya88 Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 262 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 IB Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: LI, Ny iTrader: (1)	I first Receipt, before i spoke to the SM/Tech.... """ Customer states DSC Light comes on when driving: Cause: Car has aftermarket springs DIAG/BLL DCS light on, not warranty Advisor notes, spoke with client, first , warranty is only determined after car has been diagnosed, for this reason a disgnosis fee of $189.95 flat rate is applied for any non covered items, since this was not explained to the client at write up the fee is waived, Client is aware now for the future. Next this car has an aftermarket spring set up, these are not BMW factory parts and were not installed by factory trained techs, therefore there is no coverage, the DSC light is related there is no signal from LEFT REAR SPEED SENSOR to start car MAY NEED LEFT REAR AXLE AND BEARING, due to aftermarket springs this will not be covered under facotry warranty. CLient has agreed to put on winter tires and see if light goes out. I explained tha tthis may not happen but he can try. I also explained that the car needs facotry suspension back on car to get proper diagnosis and repair. Tech notes: Performed short test--found fault for LR AXLE and BEARING--found aftermarket suspension springs on vehicle--Non warranty item--1 hr Diag. ------------------------- Customer states all malfunctions lights on Amount Due: 0.00 """ --------------------------------------------------------------------- My second Receipt (After everything was agreed upon) """ Customer States DSC LIGHT is on and Brake light came on that at the same time CAUSE: L//R wheel bearing fault 3341151 Replacing wheel bearings of left OR right rear axle shaft (n/c) 1 33-41-6-762-321 Angular contact ball (n/c) 11-33-41-1-133-785 Collar Nut:331080 (n/c) 10019 Dis Test. Fault in DSC for L/R wheel speed currently pressent. Rant test plan. Tested speed sensor OK Checked and FOund wheel bearing to be DEFECTIVE. Rep L/R wheel bearing. Road Tested. OK Amount Due: 0.00 """ So they took off my spacers. I still have the springs but i would really like it if i threw the spacers back on. What do you guys think about this "wheel bearing" bullshit? IS it possible it could of been b/c of my springs/spacers??? Please comment. Thanks -Joe __________________ 2008 E90 M3 - Interlagos Blue (stock for now)
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11-06-2009, 04:44 AM	#21
mastek e36s54, e70x5d 151 Rep 1,723 Posts Drives: slow Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA iTrader: (15)	Its possible (but unlikely) that your spacers are off enough to cause the DSC to throw a code based on vibrations --- or --- they were imporperly installed (i know, how??) ... but u never know. Drive for a week w/o the spacers -- then inspect the spacers for damage, warp, anything ... and put them back on -- if the codes come back up -- you'll know its the spacers.
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