ARH M3 Header / X-pipe review

[Sal@AUTOcouture]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

My blower already hits the hood

Have you tried rotating the orientation of the blower?

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Sal@AUTOcouture

Have you tried rotating the orientation of the blower?

I just left it how ess say it should be

[IMG]

Very nice

[squartus]

Just got mine installed today, did give it a deeper more raspy sound and with FI I can tell a power/torque difference even without being retuned "if not FI dont get these of course.





Looked under car when I got home and dont look like they hang crazy low, im not lowered and im running 18 inch wheels. Ill try to get a measurement tommrow and see what it is, I do know of one speed but ill need to avoid already though.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by squartus

Just got mine installed today, did give it a deeper more raspy sound and with FI I can tell a power/torque difference even without being retuned "if not FI dont get these of course.





Looked under car when I got home and dont look like they hang crazy low, im not lowered and im running 18 inch wheels. Ill try to get a measurement tommrow and see what it is, I do know of one speed but ill need to avoid already though.

Did you do headers only or xpipe also just trying to see of rasp might come come the headers

[pbonsalb]

You may have to drive the car for a few thousand miles to know. How long will that take based on your past driving?

[squartus]

I was running midpipes with deleted primary cats before hand, this is the headers and the bigger 3'' midpipes that come with it no cats but resonated. AA signiture axle back exhaust

Ill click though a few thousand miles in a few months but im running vibra technics race engine mounts so I dont see them settling anymore and costing me any clearance "they also have about 25,000 miles on them as well"

[Nick ARH]

Squartus, I'm really happy to hear you've got them on and have felt the positive difference even before tweaking the tune. There's more there I assure you and I hope you tap into it.
I'm not sure why you would tell NA guys not to get them though. Most of the systems we've sold were to very satisfied NA customers.
As far as the rasp, a muffler swap to ARH mufflers would address that. Our mufflers don't rasp. They provide a deeper, throatier tone that's rasp free. It's a great option for those that prefer to avoid rasp but want the grunt. ARH mufflers also do not drone as aggressive as they are.

Nick

[Rajmun340]

Good job with this independent testing of ARH headers.

QUOTING directly from ARH Website on the product :
"With real gains of 40 RWHP and 35 RWTQ (before tuning) on a bone stock M3, our new header system will literally transform your M3 "

This is a lie. It should be removed.

Second regarding pricing. it is a rip off when they sell the same full system for a Mustang Coyote 5.0 L for $2,844 posted vs. $4,795 for an E92 M3. a +$2,000 markup. LOL

It's not true one is TIG welding and the other is MIG. Professional welders can attest to this. (even if it was, it would never justify a $2K markup).
No, they basically normalized the price to the car cost which is BS.

Hey no problem with all this, it's a free society you choose your product price and whatever story you tell about it. However M3 owners know better now...

Btw the 3" post collector section is too thick, it provides no significant improvement over a 2-2.5". Only the primary header section make a difference.

That is indicative of a "bigger is better" or "bigger cannot hurt" type of american rudimental designing practices. It is a sign of lack of design engineering knowledge. In this case it hurts clearance.

Should not consider stock height but ZCP lowered to start with.

[Nick ARH]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Good job with this independent testing of ARH headers.

QUOTING directly from ARH Website on the product :
"With real gains of 40 RWHP and 35 RWTQ (before tuning) on a bone stock M3, our new header system will literally transform your M3 "

This is a lie. It should be removed.

Second regarding pricing. it is a rip off when they sell the same full system for a Mustang Coyote 5.0 L for $2,844 posted vs. $4,795 for an E92 M3. a +$2,000 markup. LOL

It's not true one is TIG welding and the other is MIG. Professional welders can attest to this. (even if it was, it would never justify a $2K markup).
No, they basically normalized the price to the car cost which is BS.

Hey no problem with all this, it's a free society you choose your product price and whatever story you tell about it. However M3 owners know better now...

Btw the 3" post collector section is too thick, it provides no significant improvement over a 2-2.5". Only the primary header section make a difference.

That is indicative of a "bigger is better" or "bigger cannot hurt" type of american rudimental designing practices. It is a sign of lack of design engineering knowledge. In this case it hurts clearance.

Should not consider stock height but ZCP lowered to start with.

Joe, what I posted wasn't a lie. It was the direct result of what we saw on our prototype car on our dyno. It was 100% bone stock other than a Dinan axleback. I hate to go back and rehash all this but I posted exactly what we saw. To be quite honest we haven't been able to duplicate the results but we have seen over 30 RWHP before tuning after the change to our system was made with ARH cats installed. Being 100% honest is the only way I know how to conduct myself.

Since you clearly know nothing about what differentiates these systems from our Mustang systems I'd refrain from commenting. It makes you look foolish. There are very significant differences that warrant the additional cost. You also aren't factoring the absolute difference in volume of sales between these two systems. There's no comparison. Frankly most would expect to pay more for parts that are made at a fraction of the frequency of others. Add the additional features and there's your cost difference.

Now if you really want to see just how nicely a set of ARH headers would transform your ride, buy a set. Like everyone else, you'll appreciate the improved power and sound. You're also welcome to stop into our facility and see first hand what it takes to manufacture the finest header systems in the world.

Nick

[Rajmun340]

Nick, you are a liar. Now let me tell you again why :

You were already interpellated before for the huge markup and that time you told lies that one was TIG welded and the one for the mustang is MIG welded which is a lie. A professional welder can attest to it.

Talking with someone who already proved to be a liar and who is trying to make further points is wasted time. The only reason I am doing it is to expose you to m3 owners. Your reap what you sow. I am in favor of people who conduct their business with integrity, you are the opposite of that.

Now, low m3 volume is a pretext as this thread OP said you built parts to order for the m3, you do not carry inventory cost. We got it, it is your selling strategy to bet that m3 owners will be foolish enough to pay more for the same amount of work that you do. +$2,000 markup. LOL

You sure can run your business as you wish, try ask $15,000 if you want, you can, but don't expect m3 owners to be as foolish as to swallow your stories.

[rcracin]

It's easy to call people names and judge their overall business on a web forum behind a keyboard.

I met Nick for the first time earlier this year and have gone back to visit him several times. He's a great person to deal with and talk to. I can assure you he conducted himself with the utmost integrity.

Please reconsider getting nasty with people on a public forum when you've never met them or used their product for that matter. Call Nick or go see his setup in person. I'm certain he would accomodate you and you will see for yourself that he isn't the things that you accuse him of. I've met a lot if shady characters from all walks of life and Nick is not one of them. It's really messed up to see people accuse a good person of things they most certainly are not.

[8k4]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Nick, you are a liar. Now let me tell you again why :

You were already interpellated before for the huge markup and that time you told lies that one was TIG welded and the one for the mustang is MIG welded which is a lie. A professional welder can attest to it.

Talking with someone who already proved to be a liar and who is trying to make further points is wasted time. The only reason I am doing it is to expose you to m3 owners. Your reap what you sow. I am in favor of people who conduct their business with integrity, you are the opposite of that.

Now, low m3 volume is a pretext as this thread OP said you built parts to order for the m3, you do not carry inventory cost. We got it, it is your selling strategy to bet that m3 owners will be foolish enough to pay more for the same amount of work that you do. +$2,000 markup. LOL

You sure can run your business as you wish, try ask $15,000 if you want, you can, but don't expect m3 owners to be as foolish as to swallow your stories.

Who the heck are you calling people liars? Did you buy the system to disprove said claims? No. So until you have data your words are nothing but conjecture. FYI a stock vehicle with cats is very restrictive, also moving the X merge further up adds significant HP, both of which ARH's system addresses

[blue flowers]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Nick, you are a liar. Now let me tell you again why :

You were already interpellated before for the huge markup and that time you told lies that one was TIG welded and the one for the mustang is MIG welded which is a lie. A professional welder can attest to it.

Talking with someone who already proved to be a liar and who is trying to make further points is wasted time. The only reason I am doing it is to expose you to m3 owners. Your reap what you sow. I am in favor of people who conduct their business with integrity, you are the opposite of that.

Now, low m3 volume is a pretext as this thread OP said you built parts to order for the m3, you do not carry inventory cost. We got it, it is your selling strategy to bet that m3 owners will be foolish enough to pay more for the same amount of work that you do. +$2,000 markup. LOL

You sure can run your business as you wish, try ask $15,000 if you want, you can, but don't expect m3 owners to be as foolish as to swallow your stories.

I've purchased long-tube headers directly from American Racing on two different occasions for two different vehicles, and both times received nothing but outstanding service and excellent products which surpassed my expectations.

Based on my personal experiences with ARH, I would continue to purchase products from them without hesitation.

And regarding Joe's comments - while I don't think Nick or ARH need any help from me in this, here are my two cents:

The increase in price - engineering expenses must also be accounted for when considering price per product. In the case of the M3, I imagine designing and fitting a set of long tube headers required a great deal more time and effort than the sets designed for corvettes, mustangs, or camaros. More time = more money.

And as for the comments about the size of the primary tube v. the collector - I don't necessarily agree, but I'm not a fabricator who has any experience in front of a dyno... and judging by the comments, I don't think Joe is either.

[Nick ARH]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Nick, you are a liar. Now let me tell you again why :

You were already interpellated before for the huge markup and that time you told lies that one was TIG welded and the one for the mustang is MIG welded which is a lie. A professional welder can attest to it.

Talking with someone who already proved to be a liar and who is trying to make further points is wasted time. The only reason I am doing it is to expose you to m3 owners. Your reap what you sow. I am in favor of people who conduct their business with integrity, you are the opposite of that.

Now, low m3 volume is a pretext as this thread OP said you built parts to order for the m3, you do not carry inventory cost. We got it, it is your selling strategy to bet that m3 owners will be foolish enough to pay more for the same amount of work that you do. +$2,000 markup. LOL

You sure can run your business as you wish, try ask $15,000 if you want, you can, but don't expect m3 owners to be as foolish as to swallow your stories.

Joe, when I put side by side photo's of the two headers you'll have to apologize for speaking without knowing what you're saying. Let me know and I'll gladly oblige you.

Nick

[FFM]

Jesus there's a lot of douchebags on this forum. This vendetta against ARH is sad.

[XxMerlinxX]

Nick, I'm still interested in doing a test and evaluation of your header and x-pipe for the board. We'd have to work out something on price though, as I'm about to do a bearing swap as well.

[8k4]

Originally Posted by XxMerlinxX

Nick, I'm still interested in doing a test and evaluation of your header and x-pipe for the board. We'd have to work out something on price though, as I'm about to do a bearing swap as well.

lol why is your financial issue due to the bearing swap ARH's problem?

[Nick ARH]

Originally Posted by XxMerlinxX

Nick, I'm still interested in doing a test and evaluation of your header and x-pipe for the board. We'd have to work out something on price though, as I'm about to do a bearing swap as well.

Merlin, email me your contact number and I'll call you to set something up. We have quite a few options to choose from. Though our headers aren't difficult to install, performing the install with the engine out makes it a snap. My email is Nick@americanracingheaders.com Thanks.

Nick

[m3london]

I've been away from these forums for a while so I haven't had a chance to keep up with the posts.

My car was used to develop the ARH / American Racing Headers e9x m3 system. I live in NYC where there are more potholes and speed bumps than there are in the rest of the country.

My car has the factory ZCP package and I've never had a ground clearance issue with the ARH collectors! The reason for the notches in the skid plate is to allow the long tube headers to be much more efficient in their design and not just a random bundle of spaghetti, which is why other manufacturers attempted and failed trying to manufacture headers for the s65 v8.

[m3london]

Originally Posted by FFM

Jesus there's a lot of douchebags on this forum. This vendetta against ARH is sad.

The assholes who are giving flack to ARH are those that can't understand normal thinking! Some of them probably have an issue with seeing a company that essentially caters to the enemy (Z06's, Cobra's, Vipers etc) do well in this unique German market, especially when they can't get a piece of the action.

The other most likely problem is the "douches" can't afford the system (let alone their car payments)...so every tidbit of bs that can be fabricated is used as an excuse to why the ARH system isn't good in their cataract eyes.

[m3london]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

Nick, you are a liar. Now let me tell you again why :

You were already interpellated before for the huge markup and that time you told lies that one was TIG welded and the one for the mustang is MIG welded which is a lie. A professional welder can attest to it.

Talking with someone who already proved to be a liar and who is trying to make further points is wasted time. The only reason I am doing it is to expose you to m3 owners. Your reap what you sow. I am in favor of people who conduct their business with integrity, you are the opposite of that.

Now, low m3 volume is a pretext as this thread OP said you built parts to order for the m3, you do not carry inventory cost. We got it, it is your selling strategy to bet that m3 owners will be foolish enough to pay more for the same amount of work that you do. +$2,000 markup. LOL

You sure can run your business as you wish, try ask $15,000 if you want, you can, but don't expect m3 owners to be as foolish as to swallow your stories.

YOU are questioning a product that you have not purchased (and probably can't afford) and stating that an extremely reputable vendor as being a liar!

If YOU actually witnessed in person what is involved to produce long tube headers for the e90/92 m3's YOU wouldn't say shit about why there is a cost difference from their other products.

For starters, it takes 2.5 times longer to produce a set of headers for the m3 than it does to produce a set for a 2013 mustang! So yes labor time is a contributing factor to pricing. Nick from American Racing Headers is in the business to sell high quality products to paying consumers, not running a charity special!

And by numbers, compared to camaro, mustang, challenger etc header sales are on average 8:1 to how many m3 headers are sold. So yes because ARH is in Deer Park, New York and not in the sticks of Minnesota, a large overhead is not possible and real estate is at a premium!
So each time an m3 system is ordered, their machines have to be set up to produce one set of headers and then reset again to continue building Systems for the other car manufacturers.

All his products are TIG welded and any buyer of his products will attest to that. Forget the fact that you are comparing a full m3 system with removable cats to a mustang kit that only provides just headers and x-pipe, did you realize that unlike other manufacturers that implements bolts...bmw uses studs to mount their factory exhaust manifolds. Because of this, the ARH header flanges have to be machined to have the stud holes countersunk so the OEM nuts can be used. If it wasn't for this added machining process, the owner would have to spend a great deal more money and time having the factory exhaust studs removed from the cylinder heads to have header bolts installed instead.