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      02-06-2012, 07:47 PM   #1
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My take: 2012 BMW M3 Coupe(ZCP,DCT) vs 2012 C63 AMG Coupe(P31,LSD)

I come from a BMW family. The very first BMW that I can remember is the 1998 BMW 740i my father drove. The car was great! Very comfortable, and effortless to drive. That opened the door for another 14 years of BMW cars. It all started after we sold the 740i in 2004. 2004 330ci, 2004 M3, a 2007 X3, a 2007 530i, a 2008 328xi, 2009 650i, 2011 X5 to a 2008 M5 and a 2011 BMW M3. There are a couple others but you get the point. You'd expect me to be a little biased towards BMW but I like to think of my self as an automotive enthusiast. I don't like to stick to just one brand so I would like to offer my take on these two incredible, amazing machines.

The Cars

The BMW M3 has been THE car. Back in the day, every TRUE auto enthusiast wanted one. The sheer balance the car provided was unrivaled. The performance the car offered for the money was unmatched. Today, BMW has stuck to that recipe(if it ain't broke don't fix it, right?) and even 6 years after it's introduction, the BMW M3 is still taking names. The sheer balance this car provides is so amazing! The car is so predictable, it's uncanny. That free revving engine just seems like there's no inertia! 8400 RPM's and the engine sings all the way to it's limit. Downshifting puts a huge grin on your face. It's such an amazing car to drive.

The car isn't perfect for daily driving, though. I found myself constantly downshifting to keep the car in it's power band. While you want the car up high in the rev band on the track, that's not so on the street. I don't want my car to be attracting attention to itself as I'm driving along trying to pass a truck. I also don't want it around some riced out Subaru. The last thing I want is for someone like that to think I want to race them. The way the car delivers the power is very linear. It builds as you go higher in the rev range but for the street, you don't want to start out with little power or torque. You want that torque delivered quickly so you are able to pass. The problem is not the amount of torque the car has, it's the way it's delivered. The M-DCT makes me wish MB actually bought their transmissions from BMW. Shifts were crsip and smooth! Feedback was minimal through the steering wheel and steering feel was a bit light.


The Mercedes Benz C63 AMG has always been the car that's nipping at the heels of BMW. While BMW's M division is geared towards going around a corner, AMG's of yore were built to go fast in a straight line. Well, the C63 AMG is here to completely shatter that trend. MB is very very close to figuring out the formula that BMW's M division has held onto for such a long time. The current generation C63 not only thrills you around town with all that punch, but it can actually corner without letting that tail end slide out. Yes, it's easy to MAKE it slide but the difference is, it won't let out on you until you make it do so. This car has power NOW. You want to speed up, mash throttle and in two seconds you're there. Unlike the M, there is no "building up" of power. It's right there, at the disposal of your right foot anytime you desire whatever gear you're in. The fun factor on this car blows past the competition. This car provides more feel and better response then the M3. The nose is more eager to turn in.

The C63 AMG isn't perfect either though. This car has three main faults in my eyes. That stupid glass roof, and that MCT transmission(Good but no match for the M-DCT) The glass roof is way too heavy for a car in this segment and the MCT while good is no match for that M-DCT that bangs off shifts so crisply and smoothly. If I were MBZ, I'd start offering more CF. CF roof like the M3 would help lower that center of gravity. The C63 has a very small bit of body roll, again thanks to that heavy glass roof. Another gripe I had were the anemic rear tires. What was Mercedes thinking putting 255's on the rear of this car!?


Interior:

The interior of the M3 in my eyes is starting to look a bit dated but that's not to say that I don't like the simplicity of it. I like the fact that there aren't buttons scattered everywhere. It looks clean and functional. The iDrive has improved significantly and BMW is far ahead of MB in offering connectivity options. The screen on the new BMW's is simply amazing. They're nice and wide. They also offer free traffic updates which MBZ does not.

The problem I saw though, was with the quality of materials being used. While it's better then a regular 3 series, I can't say that it is MUCH better. Everything feels a bit tighter but the leather quality wasn't up to par. Wrinkles form very quickly and discoloration seems to occur fast as well. The leather shows age too quickly. I also heard a couple of squeaks. I'd say that the quality of materials was only slightly better then what Mercedes was using during those dark ages when quality plummeted.

The C63's interior has improved and honestly, it's a night and day difference. Not only has Mercedes changed layout but they bumped up the quality of materials. Everything feels nice and tight around you. The leather is soft and does not show it's age as quickly. Wrinkles in the leather were hard to find. It's vastly improved over the introduction model. Everything feels good.


Exterior:

Personally, I think the e92 was one of the best looking cars around. The e92 M3 will look good years from now when we look back on it. It's gorgeous, purposeful, and the stance on the car just looks perfect!

The only gripe I have with the C63 is the rear bumper. It doesn't wrap around the car, instead it sticks out. Other then that, the car looks good. Just wish it had some wider tires to make the car look wider and meaner.

Conclusion:

You really can't go wrong with either car but it comes down to what you will be using the car for. Having to rev the snot out of the M3's engine can be great fun, but it gets old very quickly. Personally, I think the C63 is MORE fun, MORE of the time. It provides instant response with steering feel and very good feedback. It's not the best drivers car out there, it's not as light or as balanced as the M3, but even with it's faults, it is mighty close to matching the M3's ballerina like agility and that's why I would take the C63 today if I were to buy one today.


I'm not liking that BMW is milking a badge for what use to stand for an enthusiasts wet dream. I'm sure the next generation M3 will be a blast to drive and of course I'll want to see what BMW has to offer, but ///Marketing is taking that brand over and every grandma and their mother has one now. Now nothing will set apart an M from the rest of the line up. The introduction of their M Performance line really doesn't help this either as we'll be seeing ///M328's more often. Those very people that you and I made fun of for being 'posers'.

Anyway, That's my review of two absolutely amazing machines. Two great cars that go about doing the same thing, in a different way. Thanks for taking the time to read this!
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      02-06-2012, 08:15 PM   #2
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      02-06-2012, 08:26 PM   #3
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The M3 is the standard by which all the other cars in its class are measured. This is why it wins all of the head to head comparisons. Saying the C63 is better is laughable.
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      02-06-2012, 08:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten
The M3 is the standard by which all the other cars in its class are measured. This is why it wins all of the head to head comparisons. Saying the C63 is better is laughable.
Of course it is. The M3 is the best car in the world. It smokes Veyrons and ferraris and Aventadors because they are all wannabe M3's and that is how they are measured. Geez, what is with the fanboys? Great review!


P.S. I really don't see him say the C63 is better. He says the M3 is the better drivers car while the C63 is the better DD.
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      02-06-2012, 08:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated ///M View Post
Of course it is. The M3 is the best car in the world. It smokes Veyrons and ferraris and Aventadors because they are all wannabe M3's and that is how they are measured. Geez, what is with the fanboys? Great review!


P.S. I really don't see him say the C63 is better. He says the M3 is the better drivers car while the C63 is the better DD.
I'm glad we agree.
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      02-06-2012, 08:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated ///M View Post
Of course it is. The M3 is the best car in the world. It smokes Veyrons and ferraris and Aventadors because they are all wannabe M3's and that is how they are measured. Geez, what is with the fanboys? Great review!


P.S. I really don't see him say the C63 is better. He says the M3 is the better drivers car while the C63 is the better DD.

Thanks! I think he was being sarcastic though.

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Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
The M3 is the standard by which all the other cars in its class are measured. This is why it wins all of the head to head comparisons. Saying the C63 is better is laughable.
And this is where the thread goes to hell.
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      02-06-2012, 08:41 PM   #7
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Thanks!



Fanboy alert. Don't think you even read what I wrote. O well, this is where this thread goes to hell.
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      02-06-2012, 08:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
It's GB! Sorry dude! didn't even see the user. Fixed.
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      02-06-2012, 08:45 PM   #9
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It's GB! Sorry dude! didn't even see the user. Fixed.
I kid.
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      02-06-2012, 08:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I kid.
I know. :P I didn't pay attention to the username which I should have.
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      02-06-2012, 10:04 PM   #11
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I simply cant understand all this no torque talk. I have absolutely no problems passing any cars in any gear at any rpms. Now if your driving a manual or a convertible I would understand your observations a bit more but if your driving a dct coupe or sedan you should have no problems with acceleration at 2500 rpms and up.
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      02-06-2012, 10:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I simply cant understand all this no torque talk. I have absolutely no problems passing any cars in any gear at any rpms. Now if your driving a manual or a convertible I would understand your observations a bit more but if your driving a dct coupe or sedan you should have no problems with acceleration at 2500 rpms and up.

He never the car 'lacks torque' he said the problem is with the way it's delivered. Compared the to C63, the M3 lacks punch. Then again, a lot of cars do.
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      02-06-2012, 10:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated ///M View Post
He never the car 'lacks torque' he said the problem is with the way it's delivered. Compared the to C63, the M3 lacks punch. Then again, a lot of cars do.
Yes the way it's delivered is amazing considering there is only 295lb-ft. In comparision to the 310 in my 911 the m3 feels much more capable of passing other cars because of the aggressive gearing and responsive engine. The torque in the m3 is instant and strong through the entire rev range. The more I read his post the more I feel he's bsing about even owning an m3.
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      02-06-2012, 10:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
Yes the way it's delivered is amazing considering there is only 295lb-ft. In comparision to the 310 in my 911 the m3 feels much more capable of passing other cars because of the aggressive gearing and responsive engine. The torque in the m3 is instant and strong through the entire rev range. The more I read his post the more I feel he's bsing about even owning an m3.
Hmm, honestly I don't feel that the M3 pulls as hard as the C63 does but my impressions are from a very short test drive. He also doesn't seem to own an M3. He seems to drive a C63 AMG Coupe, hence the comparo? I think we'll just leave it at 'To each their own'. Have you test driven the C63 KK? 444 ft lbs of torque pulls like a freight train. The more you explain how the M3 has the same punch, the more I think you haven't sat behind the wheel of a C63. I agree with you though, I feel the DCT does a good job of helping make immediate passes.

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      02-06-2012, 11:13 PM   #15
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This is horrifying. I find myself actually agreeing with Hot|Air esp the part on revving to pass a truck. I find myself revving to overtake automatic turbo diesel taxis and that is not satisfying. In fact, it felt downright silly. He is also rite that the high revving nature is more suited to the track. These days, i do miss and frequently jump back to the M3, not for the power delivery, but for the S65 music!

KKM3, the gearing of the M3 makes it such that u need to rev to get any pace out of the car. Sure, u do get the pace, but against trucks and taxis, it just feels so wrong and i certainly wouldn't consider the M3 quick at 2500 rpm.

Comparing my M3 with my M5 is a revelation. The beefy torque of the M5 makes overtaking instant and fuss free. Looking at how M usually engineer the M3 after M5, u guys are in for a treat. My M5 even before running-in, is already making my M3 feels slow and tedious. I am perfectly confident that the bulk of existing M3 owners, whether u are die hard NA buffs or not, will defect to the new car and wax lyrical abt it the way u do the E92 M3 now. The S63TU is free revving, yet pack tons of torque everywhere. E92 M3s will become what the E46 M3s are now: a struggling minority. Die hard fans will still keep their E92s for track work, but those won't be the norm.
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      02-06-2012, 11:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated ///M View Post
Hmm, honestly I don't feel that the M3 pulls as hard as the C63 does but my impressions are from a very short test drive. He also doesn't seem to own an M3. He seems to drive a C63 AMG Coupe, hence the comparo? I think we'll just leave it at 'To each their own'. Have you test driven the C63 KK? 444 ft lbs of torque pulls like a freight train. The more you explain how the M3 has the same punch, the more I think you haven't sat behind the wheel of a C63. I agree with you though, I feel the DCT does a good job of helping make immediate passes.
I never said that the m3 has the same punch as a c63. I am merely stating that there is no problem passing cars without downshifting. The torque is more than sufficient in that regard. The way the op is expressing his observations makes it seem as though the m3 has no pull at lower rpms which is simply not the case. If your driving 65 in seventh gear there is plenty of juice to get you going without having to downshift. Now if your driving a manual m3 thats a different story but there shouldn't be any issue with a dct coupe or sedan.
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      02-06-2012, 11:28 PM   #17
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The C63 Coupe may be a beast... but they screwed up the front end in my opinion.

The M3 looks so much meaner... not sure.. but now a C63 AMG Coupe... has a hard time differentiating itself from a standard 3 series? The C63 Sedan, was much more aggressive in the front IMO.

I'd like to see the do the new TT V8 in the C class... but heard the chassis can't handle it... bummer.
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      02-06-2012, 11:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCCAForums.com View Post
The C63 Coupe may be a beast... but they screwed up the front end in my opinion.

The M3 looks so much meaner... not sure.. but now a C63 AMG Coupe... has a hard time differentiating itself from a standard 3 series? The C63 Sedan, was much more aggressive in the front IMO.

I'd like to see the do the new TT V8 in the C class... but heard the chassis can't handle it... bummer.
Yes sir. The Chassis wouldn't be able to handle all that power. They also couldn't fit a DCT because it wouldn't fit in the transmission tunnel.

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Originally Posted by clar View Post
This is horrifying. I find myself actually agreeing with Hot|Air esp the part on revving to pass a truck. I find myself revving to overtake automatic turbo diesel taxis and that is not satisfying. In fact, it felt downright silly. He is also rite that the high revving nature is more suited to the track. These days, i do miss and frequently jump back to the M3, not for the power delivery, but for the S65 music!

KKM3, the gearing of the M3 makes it such that u need to rev to get any pace out of the car. Sure, u do get the pace, but against trucks and taxis, it just feels so wrong and i certainly wouldn't consider the M3 quick at 2500 rpm.

Comparing my M3 with my M5 is a revelation. The beefy torque of the M5 makes overtaking instant and fuss free. Looking at how M usually engineer the M3 after M5, u guys are in for a treat. My M5 even before running-in, is already making my M3 feels slow and tedious. I am perfectly confident that the bulk of existing M3 owners, whether u are die hard NA buffs or not, will defect to the new car and wax lyrical abt it the way u do the E92 M3 now. The S63TU is free revving, yet pack tons of torque everywhere. E92 M3s will become what the E46 M3s are now: a struggling minority. Die hard fans will still keep their E92s for track work, but those won't be the norm.
Congrats on your M5. Beast of a car. This is the start of a beautiful friendship. I think now that you have the M5, you see what I'm taking about.

Take Care.
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      02-06-2012, 11:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I never said that the m3 has the same punch as a c63. I am merely stating that there is no problem passing cars without downshifting. The torque is more than sufficient in that regard. The way the op is expressing his observations makes it seem as though the m3 has no pull at lower rpms which is simply not the case. If your driving 65 in seventh gear there is plenty of juice to get you going without having to downshift. Now if your driving a manual m3 thats a different story but there shouldn't be any issue with a dct coupe or sedan.
At 2500 RPM, you're lugging the engine, that's not a smart idea.Also I don't feel my M3 is very 'fast' at that RPM. Compared to the C63, I think he's right. The M3's low end is anemic. I guess it depends which he drove first.
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      02-07-2012, 12:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Congrats on your M5. Beast of a car. This is the start of a beautiful friendship. I think now that you have the M5, you see what I'm taking about.

Take Care.
I din need an M5 to know that. Moving to the M3 from my previous 135i, i have always felt this way. The M5 just makes FI more convincing as that car revs and pulls all the way to the redline unlike the N54. It also handles surprisingly like an M3!
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      02-07-2012, 09:08 AM   #21
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Once you get used to the M3's speed, the DCT can be a bit boring if you're not really ringing out the motor.

My concern is the same thing happening in a car like a C63 or GTR. The GTR with all wheel drive will just get up and go. No wheel spin no counter steering to keep it straight, just blast off. Will this become mundane though? That is the question.
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      02-07-2012, 09:52 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clar View Post
Comparing my M3 with my M5 is a revelation. The beefy torque of the M5 makes overtaking instant and fuss free. Looking at how M usually engineer the M3 after M5, u guys are in for a treat. My M5 even before running-in, is already making my M3 feels slow and tedious. I am perfectly confident that the bulk of existing M3 owners, whether u are die hard NA buffs or not, will defect to the new car and wax lyrical abt it the way u do the E92 M3 now. The S63TU is free revving, yet pack tons of torque everywhere. E92 M3s will become what the E46 M3s are now: a struggling minority. Die hard fans will still keep their E92s for track work, but those won't be the norm.
SPOT on mate

I agree completely with you. I think the new m3 with the FI motor will provide the best of both worlds.

I cant wait. DI with FI technology is the future of performance street cars (what the m3 is).
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