Lexus IS-F or BMW M3 WITH DCT LAG?

[jblaze]

if i were to get a paddle shift, id take the Lexus is-F over the M3 any day, for me the M3 is a manuel car and best in a coupe as the lexus is a 4 door and serves its own purpose.

depends what your looking for, cant compare the two

[a burrito]

I'm sorry but the ISF is really nothing close to the M3. If you have to get a auto get the C63 over the dct m3... just my opinion

[Cabinetman]

Originally Posted by a burrito

I'm sorry but the ISF is really nothing close to the M3. If you have to get a auto get the C63 over the dct m3... just my opinion

I think it depends on what your criteria is. I have owned both an IS-F as well as an M and they are both fine cars. I can't really compare the performance at this point because I'm still in the break-in period on the M, however I don't think there will be much straight line speed difference. Now that the F has a LSD it might prove closer to the M than you think.

[stevehifi]

When I looked for a 4 door V8 sedan, I test drove a bunch: RS4, IS-F, 335 and finally the M3. Couldn't test drive the C63 because it was in short supply (this is back in April 08 when DCT for M3 wasn't even available).

I thought the RS4 was too heavy, understeered too much and had a really stiff ride.

The 335 had a great motor but was way too soft and lacked road feel.

The IS-F was actually alot of fun to drive, I loved the engine sound, tranny and handling was precise as well. I was seriously considering the car.

Then I drove the M3 (mind you a coupe) which didn't even have EDC, very basic options and the first couple of turns that I took with the car I understood (it clicked). The car just has a pedigree of flat neutral balance and agility that the previous cars simply lacked. It was obvious then what I wanted to get.

The IS-F was a fun car, but for me, the M3 was king of the twisties.

[CSanto]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Last night, I just watched the Top Gear shoot out between the ISF and M3-6MT. With the Stig driving, the M3 smoked the ISF on the track by 4 seconds. Given that it's only about a 1:30 lap, that's about 5% faster on the track.

wow, I didn't know the margin was that great.

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by jblaze

if i were to get a paddle shift, id take the Lexus is-F over the M3 any day, for me the M3 is a manuel car and best in a coupe as the lexus is a 4 door and serves its own purpose.

depends what your looking for, cant compare the two

Originally Posted by a_burrito

I'm sorry but the ISF is really nothing close to the M3. If you have to get a auto get the C63 over the dct m3... just my opinion

Just curious, but did both of you drive both an IS-F and a M3 with DCT? Or you guys going on non-experience opinion?

[a burrito]

Originally Posted by warzilla

Just curious, but did both of you drive both an IS-F and a M3 with DCT? Or you guys going on non-experience opinion?

Yes. Driven both + the C63. Busy right now can fill in on my impressions later..

edit-
For me it was the feel. The Lexus just felt like a bumpy lexus. The seats were not that comfy, the rebound was harsh, and the dash, to me, looked like an after thought. Beyond that, I could only slightly hear the exhaust note and was overpowered by the IS-F's intake in the higher bandwidth. Besides that the brakes had excellent feedback and bit hard. The steering had very good feedback as well although the steering wheel itself could have been thicker. Power was plenty and the look of the car is really like nothing else on the road today. Didn't try to toss it in corners so I can't really comment here.

The M3 pampers you. Soft nappa leather at your fingertips with fat captain(looking) seats bolstering you to a position where you're met with the very beautiful M-Gauges. Its a really nice place to be in especially if you get the carbon leather trim. It looks very special. The drive and the suspension is where the M3 took the cake comparing the two. The suspension is firm but has daily drivable rebound and the drive involves so much more sound and feel without discomfort in the M3. Although the differences between a 3 series interior and the m3 interior are quite similar, all the little upgrades of the material in the interior still makes me feel special when I'm sitting in a M3. I did not in the IS-F. When we are talking about cars that are touching 70k+ including tax, I think its safe to say we want at least a little bit of special treatment.

Both the IS-F and the M3 are great cars in my eyes and it will be downright dirty when the next IS-F comes out because its going to be pretty dang good. Possibly a better choice than the C63 or the M3. But for now, the M3 does a handful of things better and it really shows when you are driving the F.

[jblaze]

Originally Posted by warzilla

Just curious, but did both of you drive both an IS-F and a M3 with DCT? Or you guys going on non-experience opinion?

the IS-F and M3 6T

my opinion is concept based, a coupe is alot more enjoyable for me in a manuel and a 4 door is nice in paddle
not on whos better, but the car design suits its own

[MrHarris]

The C63 has the nicest seats out of all the of them IMO (M3, ISF, C63, RS4)

[footie]

Originally Posted by MrHarris

The C63 has the nicest seats out of all the of them IMO (M3, ISF, C63, RS4)

Unfortunately you lot in the US never got the full seat option on the RS4.

These were the only seats to have and are without doubt the best out of all of them.

[jblaze]

recaro sport seats ./drool

RS4 / porshce cayenne are my options for a used winter beater!

cant wait for march and the snow to go, so i can possibly own a M

[Cabinetman]

Originally Posted by a burrito

Yes. Driven both + the C63. Busy right now can fill in on my impressions later..

edit-
For me it was the feel. The Lexus just felt like a bumpy lexus. The seats were not that comfy, the rebound was harsh, and the dash, to me, looked like an after thought. Beyond that, I could only slightly hear the exhaust note and was overpowered by the IS-F's intake in the higher bandwidth. Besides that the brakes had excellent feedback and bit hard. The steering had very good feedback as well although the steering wheel itself could have been thicker. Power was plenty and the look of the car is really like nothing else on the road today. Didn't try to toss it in corners so I can't really comment here.

The M3 pampers you. Soft nappa leather at your fingertips with fat captain(looking) seats bolstering you to a position where you're met with the very beautiful M-Gauges. Its a really nice place to be in especially if you get the carbon leather trim. It looks very special. The drive and the suspension is where the M3 took the cake comparing the two. The suspension is firm but has daily drivable rebound and the drive involves so much more sound and feel without discomfort in the M3. Although the differences between a 3 series interior and the m3 interior are quite similar, all the little upgrades of the material in the interior still makes me feel special when I'm sitting in a M3. I did not in the IS-F. When we are talking about cars that are touching 70k+ including tax, I think its safe to say we want at least a little bit of special treatment.

Both the IS-F and the M3 are great cars in my eyes and it will be downright dirty when the next IS-F comes out because its going to be pretty dang good. Possibly a better choice than the C63 or the M3. But for now, the M3 does a handful of things better and it really shows when you are driving the F.

Thanks for the balanced review. I agree with a lot of what you said except for the interior. I agree the M seats are better, but I thought the gauges and switch gear looked better in my F. The M gauges appear a bit outdated by comparison. The only things i didn't like about the F interior were the location of the sport and DSC buttons behind the wheel and the cheesy looking clock display that appears to come straight out of a Camry.

[NetBoy]

I seriously considered the ISF. A dealer tossed me the keys to a used one with 5k miles and I got to drive alone. The suspension is way too stiff. I drove over railroad tracks, speed bumps, anything that wasn't smooth. I knew it would drive me nuts. But the ISF sounds great past 4k rpms and you have the Lexus reliability.

These are relatively new cars but common flaws and owner complaints are starting to show. The car mags all complain about the ISF suspension. DCT owners have lag issues.

I went with the M3. Not all DCTs have lag and there are fixes.

[Optherion]

im pretty sure the ISF is not a dual clutch first off. Its a single clutch trans. The lag everyone talks about is only at the point where you are coasting and the car thinks you are coming to a stop. Neither of the clutches is engaged. This wouldnt happen with a single clutch. I have experienced this 1 time in my M3 in the course of 1 year. Drive the m3 hard and it performs like a dream.

For the record, I have had much more quirky things happen when driving my f430 around town with the gearbox in race mode. Both cars are meant for sporty driving, get the lexus if you want to impress you're grandma.

[Cabinetman]

Originally Posted by Optherion

im pretty sure the ISF is not a dual clutch first off. Its a single clutch trans.

Actually the F has a true automatic transmission with a torque converter. Lexus has just found ways to make the traditional slushbox respond more like a DCT.

[HiProfile Robs]

I say IS-F but then again im biased

LOL joke it's basically to the owner/potential buyers preference.

I personally have driven both and i currently drive a Lexus but if its not an M, i wouldn't consider it because i used to work at BMW and now im currently at Lexus... Let me tell you Lexus cars are alot more reliable than BMW's... (Non M might i add)

But i honestly don't know what i would go for when its time for me to upgrade to either the F or the M3...

BTW, the IS-F comes with an 8 speed transmission and supposedly shifts at a .01/second rate

[malujerry]

Originally Posted by a burrito

When we are talking about cars that are touching 70k+ including tax, I think its safe to say we want at least a little bit of special treatment.

Most people can get a fully loaded IS-F for about $55k. I picked up mine for $48,680 + TT&L. A comparably equipped M3 was pricing out to be around $65k + fees. I decided the $15k difference was not worth it.

And every time I pull into a Lexus dealership, jaws drop. I know this doesn't at BMW here, but then again it's long island and i see M3's about twice daily.

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by Cabinetman

Actually the F has a true automatic transmission with a torque converter. Lexus has just found ways to make the traditional slushbox respond more like a DCT.

Shift speed is much better than conventional automatics, but still nowhere close to modern dual clutch transmissions that shift in less than half the time new automatics do even with their lock-up torque converter shut off. Automatics cannot handle heat and stress of high revs either, which is why Lexus is going with a single-clutch automated manual in their true masterpiece LF-A.

If you have seen DLSJ5's 400 wheel HP modded M-DCT M3 race videos vs 450 - 460 wheel HP modded C63 races, he wins those races with a major role of the shift speeds of the dual clutch transmission.

Not to mention, the M3 comes with launch control system that actuates spark ignition to maximum traction. The only downside of M-DCT is less reliable than automatics.

I would taken neither an automatic nor a dual clutch transmission, give me a 6 speed manual M3 and that is all I care about.

[IS350]

Originally Posted by malujerry

Most people can get a fully loaded IS-F for about $55k. I picked up mine for $48,680 + TT&L. A comparably equipped M3 was pricing out to be around $65k + fees. I decided the $15k difference was not worth it.

And every time I pull into a Lexus dealership, jaws drop. I know this doesn't at BMW here, but then again it's long island and i see M3's about twice daily.

I know what ya mean about the attention F's get at the dealership. I've loved my F, but after a terrible accident I'm back in the market. I'm torn between the two, that's how much I loved my F. But I'll say the DCT, after a weekend test drive is quite impressive. Still deciding...

[330CIZHP]

You might want to PM a guy on this board who traded in his IS-F for an M3 sedan. He would be able to give you the best comparison (Although, he is still breaking in and never has taken his M3 in the special 6000 - 8400 rpm zone).

Originally Posted by IS350

I know what ya mean about the attention F's get at the dealership. I've loved my F, but after a terrible accident I'm back in the market. I'm torn between the two, that's how much I loved my F. But I'll say the DCT, after a weekend test drive is quite impressive. Still deciding...

[Dr.G]

if ur willing to deal with IS-F's horribly harsh ride ... its like sittin on a pile of rocks ... by all means go for the more reliable package ;p

[Jonmartin]

All Lexus cars are for Females...

Stick with the M3 or maybe a C63 both look better then the IS-F thats for sure.