E93 M3 Vs Nissan GT-R

mkoesel · 10-12-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

But I still think that flappy paddles are for people who dont appreciate wheat real driving is all about.

The opposite could be argued as well.

Quote:

Learn to REALLY drive people, you're missing out!

The thing is, real driving doesn't have much to do with how the driver selects gear ratios. Real driving is about car control and effectively using the powerband of the engine. Obviously there are lots of details in there, sure, but DCT is designed specifically to aid the driver in reaching these goals while allowing them to do devote more brain power to the task of keeping the car on the road or track. And it succeeds by most accounts. Traditionally, it was true that you needed a manual transmission to really get the most from the engine. But it is no longer that case. There is nothing about pushing a clutch pedal and moving a stick through an H-gate that will make the driver more successful at these goals.

Subw00er · 10-12-2009, 02:15 PM

So what you're basically saying is that if you have a small brain, then dct is better?

haha sorry, just messing around, had to..

I'm never going to convince you or anyone else that driving a proper manual transmission is part of the driver experience. All I can say is that it just IS and you wont have any idea what I'm talking about until you try it. I would wager that most people who buy DCT dont know how to heel-toe, rev match, etc because anyone who has had that level of human-car interaction wouldnt want to lose it on a car like the M3. We need more real drivers on the forum that know what I'm talking about. Can I get some enthusiast support in here please?!

I think the only real proper arguments for buying a DCT car is that if you live in a city and sit in traffic every day. Or maybe you have a partner that is useless at standard transmission. Beyond those I cant think of one reason why its better. Its CERTAINLY not because its more driver entertaining or interactive. Its just a big:

mkoesel · 10-12-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

So what you're basically saying is that if you have a small brain, then dct is better?

haha sorry, just messing around, had to..

No problem. Speaking of small brains - you should probably read someone's sig carefully before replying.

Quote:

I'm never going to convince you or anyone else that driving a proper manual transmission is part of the driver experience. All I can say is that it just IS and you wont have any idea what I'm talking about until you try it.

I'll have to give it a try... someday.

Quote:

I would wager that most people who buy DCT dont know how to heel-toe, rev match, etc because anyone who has had that level of human-car interaction wouldnt want to lose it on a car like the M3.

Similarly, I bet most people who have actually taken a car around a course at high speed will prefer the DCT because anyone who has had that level of car control will never want to lose it on a car like the M3.

Quote:

We need more real drivers on the forum that know what I'm talking about. Can I get some enthusiast support in here please?!

What's heel-toe anyway? Is that a disease? Forgive me for the dumb question, I am not a real enthusiast like you.

Quote:

I think the only real proper arguments for buying a DCT car is that if you live in a city and sit in traffic every day. Or maybe you have a partner that is useless at standard transmission. Beyond those I cant think of one reason why its better.

Actually I agree with you on that. The reason is, I was reading an interview with the engineers and designers who worked on some performance cars like the Nissan GT-R and the Ferrari 430 Scuderia. They specifically said that the only reason they don't offer a stick on those cars is because they were designed for people who sit in traffic all day.

991GT3 · 10-12-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

So what you're basically saying is that if you have a small brain, then dct is better?

haha sorry, just messing around, had to..

I'm never going to convince you or anyone else that driving a proper manual transmission is part of the driver experience. All I can say is that it just IS and you wont have any idea what I'm talking about until you try it. I would wager that most people who buy DCT dont know how to heel-toe, rev match, etc because anyone who has had that level of human-car interaction wouldnt want to lose it on a car like the M3. We need more real drivers on the forum that know what I'm talking about. Can I get some enthusiast support in here please?!

I think the only real proper arguments for buying a DCT car is that if you live in a city and sit in traffic every day. Or maybe you have a partner that is useless at standard transmission. Beyond those I cant think of one reason why its better. Its CERTAINLY not because its more driver entertaining or interactive. Its just a big:

OK. So now it's not that paddle shifting is for women it's just that real drivers would never use it. Thanks for clarifying. I am humbled that a real driver would take the time to enlighten me.

Subw00er · 10-12-2009, 04:58 PM

997gt3 - my pleasure. Have fun in your video game with wheels.

mkoesel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe

mkoesel · 10-12-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

mkoesel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe

Thanks. And here's one for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

991GT3 · 10-12-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subw00er

997gt3 - my pleasure. Have fun in your video game with wheels.

mkoesel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe

Oh I will. Be seeing you heel toeing out my rearview mirror.

lucid · 10-12-2009, 05:50 PM

Folks, take it easy. I've never seen a MT vs DCT discussion go anywhere on this forum, and there are lots and lots threads on it. I'd say to each his/her own. Peace.

!Xoible · 10-12-2009, 05:57 PM

yes. i am always pro change when it comes to cars... and girlfriends

devo · 10-13-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 997GT3

Oh I will. Be seeing you heel toeing out my rearview mirror.

Did your GT3 arrive yet? You now the one with the manly transmission

. If so pics, specs, all the good stuff.

attila · 10-13-2009, 08:50 AM

this thread is somewhat funny for me, since I got 6sp manual because of my wife. She just hates anything else. The problem is she is plainly refusing to even try any other transmission.

Subw00er · 10-13-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 997GT3

Oh I will. Be seeing you heel toeing out my rearview mirror.

My dad is bigger than your dad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by attila

this thread is somewhat funny for me, since I got 6sp manual because of my wife. She just hates anything else. The problem is she is plainly refusing to even try any other transmission.

You married right!

KonigsTiger · 10-13-2009, 09:50 AM

If those looks get you off it´ll be good. I think is very "Nissan" looking myself and don´t really appreciate the lines. Not for me.

Chinchini · 10-13-2009, 10:38 AM

z06

footie · 10-13-2009, 10:56 AM

This thread has changed greatly from the original question.

How come it's all about manuals and semi-autos,

, anyway while on the subject of which is better and which is the 'REAL' driver's choice, frankly it's all down to the individual. Though some manufacturers have sort of forced the customer down the semi-auto like Ferrari with their most extreme driver's car solely coming with semi-autos and then there is Porsche with the GT3 and it solely available as a manual. But no matter what anyone wants the future is moving away from true manuals.

Frankly I prefer doing the shifting if I was on a track but I don't see it and the main thing for the driver, it's controlling the car's steering, throttle and brakes that make up the bulk of the experience.

ching · 10-13-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-18

My cousin have a GTR, his miles is 24987, so he told me he want to trade for my E93. My E93 have only 7297 miles. Should I go for it Or not?

Get it checked out first and make sure you are satisfied that the car is in good condition and the warranty is intact. Regular maintenance may be cheap but repair bills are big $$$s.

991GT3 · 10-13-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devo

Did your GT3 arrive yet? You now the one with the manly transmission

. If so pics, specs, all the good stuff.

Sadly I killed the order(the first car I've ever cancelled). I'm putting it off for a year. I was trying to rationalize having a GTR for my winter car and a GT3 as my summer vehicle but came to the conclusion I was being silly. I ordered an X6M(which I'm picking up in South Carolina in two weeks) instead and decided that I'll buy a GT3 when I sell my Nissan. It was a hard decision.

Did you get your bad boy? If so, I'm really jealous.

attila · 10-13-2009, 01:18 PM

You married right![/QUOTE]

I am not so sure!! In Europe manual is the norm, so we all learned on manual cars. But I see double clutch trany as the future.
I test drove both 6sp and DCT car 3 times back to back and felt the 6sp more alive felt like I was doing more. But now sometimes on the track I would welcome the DCT.

tim3less · 10-13-2009, 02:13 PM

im sorry but i dislike E93s. get the GTR or a used 997tt

devo · 10-13-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 997GT3

Sadly I killed the order(the first car I've ever cancelled). I'm putting it off for a year. I was trying to rationalize having a GTR for my winter car and a GT3 as my summer vehicle but came to the conclusion I was being silly. I ordered an X6M(which I'm picking up in South Carolina in two weeks) instead and decided that I'll buy a GT3 when I sell my Nissan. It was a hard decision.

Did you get your bad boy? If so, I'm really jealous.

Goes to production early Nov. I hear goods things about this ride.

footie · 10-13-2009, 04:00 PM

Word is the new 997 Turbo Mk2 is something very special indeed.

bruce.augenstein@comcast. · 10-13-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

Word is the new 997 Turbo Mk2 is something very special indeed.

I'd be amazed if it weren't. Porsche has been seriously trashed by Nissan, and I'm really looking forward to their answer. Not the "They cheated!" answer, but the answer in product form.

Way back when (before we knew anything), I pretty much guaranteed the GT-R would be a killer car, for reasons of business and national pride.

Same deal for the Porsche.

Bruce

10-12-2009, 02:15 PM	#46
Subw00er Bates '08 Interlagos Launch 126 Rep 1,230 Posts Drives: 440i xGC, ZL1, JCW Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NY iTrader: (2)	So what you're basically saying is that if you have a small brain, then dct is better? haha sorry, just messing around, had to.. I'm never going to convince you or anyone else that driving a proper manual transmission is part of the driver experience. All I can say is that it just IS and you wont have any idea what I'm talking about until you try it. I would wager that most people who buy DCT dont know how to heel-toe, rev match, etc because anyone who has had that level of human-car interaction wouldnt want to lose it on a car like the M3. We need more real drivers on the forum that know what I'm talking about. Can I get some enthusiast support in here please?! I think the only real proper arguments for buying a DCT car is that if you live in a city and sit in traffic every day. Or maybe you have a partner that is useless at standard transmission. Beyond those I cant think of one reason why its better. Its CERTAINLY not because its more driver entertaining or interactive. Its just a big: __________________ Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/ DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-12-2009, 04:58 PM	#49
Subw00er Bates '08 Interlagos Launch 126 Rep 1,230 Posts Drives: 440i xGC, ZL1, JCW Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NY iTrader: (2)	997gt3 - my pleasure. Have fun in your video game with wheels. mkoesel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe __________________ Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/ DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-12-2009, 05:50 PM	#52
lucid Major General 374 Rep 8,033 Posts Drives: E30 M3; Expedition Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Folks, take it easy. I've never seen a MT vs DCT discussion go anywhere on this forum, and there are lots and lots threads on it. I'd say to each his/her own. Peace. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-12-2009, 05:57 PM	#53
!Xoible Banned 832 Rep 46,029 Posts Drives: .... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: . iTrader: (4) Garage List 2008 M3 [4.00] 2007 335i [9.00] 2008 528i [8.00] 2006 Infiniti - G35 ... [8.00]	yes. i am always pro change when it comes to cars... and girlfriends
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-13-2009, 08:50 AM	#55
attila Captain 83 Rep 629 Posts Drives: 2015 Mclaren 650s, 2015 GTS4, Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Omaha, NE iTrader: (0)	this thread is somewhat funny for me, since I got 6sp manual because of my wife. She just hates anything else. The problem is she is plainly refusing to even try any other transmission.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-13-2009, 09:50 AM	#57
KonigsTiger Racying Dynamics 118 Rep 4,391 Posts Drives: E92M3 RS46 Club Sport, others Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dweller iTrader: (0)	If those looks get you off it´ll be good. I think is very "Nissan" looking myself and don´t really appreciate the lines. Not for me. __________________ ==================================================
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-13-2009, 10:38 AM	#58
Chinchini Enlisted Member 5 Rep 44 Posts Drives: 08 E92 Alpine White M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cold Spring Harbor, NY iTrader: (0)	z06
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-13-2009, 10:56 AM	#59
footie Major General 1109 Rep 8,014 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	This thread has changed greatly from the original question. How come it's all about manuals and semi-autos, , anyway while on the subject of which is better and which is the 'REAL' driver's choice, frankly it's all down to the individual. Though some manufacturers have sort of forced the customer down the semi-auto like Ferrari with their most extreme driver's car solely coming with semi-autos and then there is Porsche with the GT3 and it solely available as a manual. But no matter what anyone wants the future is moving away from true manuals. Frankly I prefer doing the shifting if I was on a track but I don't see it and the main thing for the driver, it's controlling the car's steering, throttle and brakes that make up the bulk of the experience.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-13-2009, 01:18 PM	#62
attila Captain 83 Rep 629 Posts Drives: 2015 Mclaren 650s, 2015 GTS4, Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Omaha, NE iTrader: (0)	You married right![/QUOTE] I am not so sure!! In Europe manual is the norm, so we all learned on manual cars. But I see double clutch trany as the future. I test drove both 6sp and DCT car 3 times back to back and felt the 6sp more alive felt like I was doing more. But now sometimes on the track I would welcome the DCT.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-13-2009, 02:13 PM	#63
tim3less First Lieutenant 13 Rep 362 Posts Drives: '07 STi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NJ iTrader: (0)	im sorry but i dislike E93s. get the GTR or a used 997tt
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-13-2009, 04:00 PM	#65
footie Major General 1109 Rep 8,014 Posts Drives: i5M60 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: No where fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW i5M60 [0.00] 2022 BMW i4M50 [0.00] 2020 BMW M5 Competi ... [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00]	Word is the new 997 Turbo Mk2 is something very special indeed.
	Appreciate 0 Quote