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02-16-2007, 09:32 PM | #46 | |
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2) I can assure you that Lexus doesn't have BMW scared. When it comes to sport sedans, BMW sets the bar, not the other way around. 3) If you want a Porsche, buy a Porsche. -Adam |
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02-17-2007, 01:08 AM | #47 | |
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Best regards, south |
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02-17-2007, 02:36 AM | #48 |
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On we go...
Jussi: On the topic of oxymorons: Clearly you must agree that in general, and in fact in MOST cases dealers (we call them "stealers" in the US) are less knowledgable than your average forum enthusiast. I'm not saying your dealer is not knowledgeable, it's just funny how everyone distrusts (to the point of making fun of them) their dealers, with reason, but you have complete trust. Next I never stated I have any better sources than you do, my sources are obvious, this and other good forums. So I guess I have now revealed them. I simply always try to bring some balance and logic to the table.
Like brandonlowe said we have a case here of multiple reasonably qualified sources with totally 100% contradictory "evidence". I disagree with South here: One way to reconcile things is by judging the best/most reliable source. Scott26 and Martin Birkmann seem like darn good sources to me, both with BMW. A dealer can be knowledgable but is most often not. Scott26 and Martin have only chimed in about a release schedule not the SMG/6M/DSG thing. Let's call that a separate topic (I know - with how well we stay on topic not much chance for that...). However, could it be that BMW is purposefully supplying inaccurate information? We need history and logic as well as sources to best guess the future (and satisfy our raging curiosity and desire to know). Logic: South: If the recent mules in Europe are FEP cars and the car in Geneva will be 99% production what the heck will BWM be doing between March and September - 7 months? Let alone between March 06 and spring/summer 07??? Cars can be designed and brought to production today in about 18 months (GM and others, typically). Can BMW really take one FULL YEAR after Geneva (March 2007) to get this car to it's largest market, the US? I suspect design work began on E92 M3 in mid to late 2005. This would mean 2.5 years from begining of design to sale in largest market when the chasis has already been designed (most of the engine and probably tranny and diff as well). Just does not make any sense at all. It is always in the best interest of a company to get profits from sales of its products absolutely ASAP, assuming their own products don't compete. History: BMW claims it takes an M about 2 years to be introduced after the base model is introduced. Perhaps they get cars like the 328 designed and brought to production in 18 month but don't worry as much nor have the specialist (human) resources to get Ms to market at the same brisk pace. Someone needs to put together some time lines for E46 M3, E60 M5 and E63 M6 including dates of first spy photos, launch of non M base car, debuting shows and 1st EU and 1st US deliveries. Any volunteers? Come on Jussi - I know you can help big time with this one! I will make another post on this topic. I have looked for this informaton in the past but have found it quite hard to get it completely and accurately. Also the M5 may not be a particularly fair/representative example because I heard there were significant, late and unplanned delays from some problems (with production I think). I think this is why Scott26 always qualifies dates and says things like barring any unforseen problems and statements like that. Well I'd hate to miss this car as well but if summer 2008 is the final factual US launch date I may be headed to P-car territory as well. That is for now but it would fade so fast! I know it doesn't do an ounce of good but, BMW - get moving or be prepared to loose my money and many others. A few others have already shared this exact senitment and some have acted and posted their bounty (e.g. mloyelo). |
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02-17-2007, 02:50 AM | #49 | |
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If so, I'm in the same boat as you. The way I see it, the only car company out there that's most similar to BMW is Porsche. The funny thing is, I just got over telling my friends that I've got a BMW---sometimes I feel guilty saying it, especially to people who are older than me because they have a Ford Escort and I've got a new BMW. Just wait until I say I've got an '07 or '08 Porsche (assuming BMW doesn't release the M3 in the US by December 31st of this year). |
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02-17-2007, 02:58 AM | #50 |
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honestly I'd hate to say it... I love bmw
i love the M3 more than anything, but if it honestly is summer 2008.... when I am barely surviving to Summer 2007...there is no way I can do it again.
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02-17-2007, 05:29 AM | #51 | |
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The dealers don't know much if anything more than most of the people here. Heck, a bmw insider directly contradicts your post in this thread. get real. |
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02-17-2007, 05:35 AM | #52 | |
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02-17-2007, 06:29 AM | #53 |
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Right, I just knew, ahem, a person, like you had to step in on this thread. Too bad it's a qualified fact from multiple BMW insiders (and not just someone who plays one on a forum) that the cars will be rolling out in May of this year from the production line. Let's see what kind of mockery and arrogant bullshit you'll post then. It's only a few months away.
Probably should have known better not to post this here at all, but I guess I forgot how some few bad apples on this forum spoil it for the most of the good people on it. Regards, Jussi |
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02-17-2007, 07:46 AM | #54 | |
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Believe it or not you are not above being qustioned here. You have posted a lot of hard to believe things in the past. You speak with authority but no one here has any reason to believe you over others on this board. The other poster has a track record of getting this info right. What do you have? This is one of those little gems that killed your credibility with me. I will hold you to that statement when the cars come out. |
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02-17-2007, 08:53 AM | #55 | ||
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OK, I have to say it: You're absolutely right 'bout this. Quote:
M5: Concept: Geneva '04 Press release of production car: July '04 Planned Europe launch: Fall '04 First european deliveries: April '05 First US deliveries: Oct '05 M6: Press release: December '04 First european deliveries: April '05 First US deliveries: ~May '06 I did use information from m5board.com; I think it's possible that there were deliveries earlier than the above stated but the "trend" should be right. So US introduction of M5 was 6 month after european. Sorry to say that. Best regards, south |
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02-17-2007, 09:58 AM | #56 | |
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02-17-2007, 12:41 PM | #57 | |
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02-17-2007, 02:15 PM | #58 |
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skipping around
BMW always skipped a whole production year before releasing a new car after a car has been discontinued.
The E46 M3 stopped production in June or July (I forgot which month exactly) my source on that was m3forum.net when I read it, I will do a search later when I get back home and find the quote for you guys. so the E46 M3 was out released by April right? If somebody can find the launch date of the E36 M3 and the Discontinue date of the E36 M3, Then I think we will know if Scott 26 is 100% correct... Yea.. I'll search it when I get home P.S. the ca cannot come out in May because it wouldnt even be a year yet even though I wish it would... if any1 finds any info please post it on here
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02-17-2007, 02:23 PM | #59 | |
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That is pretty fair
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Following up on the history point. E46 M3 History: Concept car launch: Geneva, March 2000 1st EU deliveries: Dec 2000 1st US deliveries: Feb/Mar (?) 2001 E63 M6: Debut: Geneva 2005 This makes the elapsed time from Geneva (March) to US delivery: E46 M3: 12 months E60 M5: 19 months E63 M6: 14 months History points to availability in the US early 2008 at best. However, there is a good bit of variation in the above numbers and a figure like 10 months would not be totally out of place on that list. US deliveries in late 2007 does not seem impossible! |
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02-17-2007, 02:33 PM | #60 |
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The last E46 M3 Coupés were built in late May 2006. I remember this because I was considering ordering one of the last cars with the CS kit back then with a discount that I was offered. I believe it was something like 25th of May when they cut it off. The Cabriolet followed few weeks later.
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