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      06-04-2007, 03:30 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
True, but why break his own rules?

To show that God is all-powerful. Remember that Prophet Isa (AS) had no father? i.e a virgin birth, well that is to show that Allah can make anything possible...

Those who have ABSOLUTE power don't need to show off ...
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      06-04-2007, 05:33 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Those who have ABSOLUTE power don't need to show off ...
Since no one here has ABSOLUTE power, nor any experience with such a level of earthly power, how can we know what an entity so empowered needs?
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      06-04-2007, 07:35 PM   #355
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Those who have ABSOLUTE power don't need to show off ...

You forget that many people who didn't believe in Allah used to say to the Holy Prophet "If you are Allah's apostle, split the moon in two". And by Allah's power he gave strength to the Holy Prophet to perform this miracle. If you want proof I can show you that it did infact happen but lets stick to the topic...

If Allah does not show his power to forgive, his power to punish, then would people obey him? Of course not. Most people only believe in what they can physically see, and unless they see evidence of God - they refuse to believe...

Anyway, these are reminders that Allah is our creator. Allah says he created man from clay. This has been proven. He said he created us from water. This has been proven too. Allah said he created us from nothing. This has been proven too. I don't think there's anyone who would argue about the fact that humans did not always exist. What about Prophet Adam (AS)? He was the first man created by Allah and it proves that Allah can create a man without him having a mother or father. Allah further shows his power by creating Prophet Isa (AS) in the womb of his mother through a virgin birth. What can this be called apart from a miracle?

It is narrated that once there was a woman in the company of Bibi Maryam (AS) [Prophet Isa (AS)'s mother]. The woman was also pregnant, and told Bibi Maryam (AS) that whenever she faced her, she could feel the baby in her womb bowing down to the beloved Prophet in the womb of Bibi Maryam (AS)!
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      06-04-2007, 08:40 PM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeil View Post
Since no one here has ABSOLUTE power, nor any experience with such a level of earthly power, how can we know what an entity so empowered needs?
Since no sane person here has ever seen God, talked to God, or has any assurance that the bible truly represents God's manual for humans, how can we blindly follow God's orders or even know that by following some particular version of the bible we fulfill God's will?

Any theological discussion is crafted in human terms and fueled by human passions, which are sometimes cleverly disguised as received from God.
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      06-04-2007, 08:49 PM   #357
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[quote=hks786;1037231
If Allah does not show his power to forgive, his power to punish, then would people obey him? Of course not. Most people only believe in what they can physically see, and unless they see evidence of God - they refuse to believe...

[/QUOTE]

This is again a resort to a purely human concept of a child-parent relationship. Do you really think that God is just an adorable daddy spanking his kids every now and then?

An image like this (just as many other images used by organized religions) are really appealing to uneducated crowd and help the church to manipulate the minds of average Joes.
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      06-04-2007, 08:51 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post

Most people only believe in what they can physically see, and unless they see evidence of God - they refuse to believe...
well, I physically don;t see Allah, but I have to admit that my vision is far from 20/20. Maybe a lasic surgery can help?
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      06-04-2007, 09:06 PM   #359
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Do you really think that God is just an adorable daddy spanking his kids every now and then?

I wouldnt put it like that, but yes, Allah does remind us that he is god. He is always fair though. In the holy Quran he says no nation has been destroyed without a warner....

well, I physically don;t see Allah, but I have to admit that my vision is far from 20/20. Maybe a lasic surgery can help?

Bro, noone can see Allah. That is not what I meant. I even gave an example to show what I meant. People used to approach the prophets and say "do this and we will believe you are a prophet of Allah". The prophet's showed their miracles to the people, and the one's whose hearts were open, took heed of these signs that Allah is our god, and those whose hearts were closed still rejected Allah as god...
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      06-04-2007, 11:17 PM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Since no sane person here has ever seen God, talked to God, or has any assurance that the bible truly represents God's manual for humans, how can we blindly follow God's orders or even know that by following some particular version of the bible we fulfill God's will?

Any theological discussion is crafted in human terms and fueled by human passions, which are sometimes cleverly disguised as received from God.
Millions (billions??) of sane people speak to God everyday.

There are virtually no philosophic conclusions that can be proven beyond doubt but that may say more about the limited ability of the human mind than the validity of those conclusions.

Greater minds than mine have pondered this question and greater minds than mine have concluded that there are things outside the physical world, immune to experimentation and mathematical certainty.

Live your life solely in the physical world, blind to any metaphysical reality. It influences my life and my reality in no important way.
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      06-05-2007, 12:43 AM   #361
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Enuff is Enuff....

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      06-05-2007, 05:13 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y View Post
Enuff is Enuff....

again, how contributive of you...
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      06-05-2007, 06:42 AM   #363
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> The Bible is full of incidents of God breaking His own rules, they are often referred to as miracles

Yeah, but not impossibilities. Splitting seas, walking on water, making blind men see, replicating fish, these are all possible (though improbable) within the rules created.

Creating a woman out of a man would be an uber-miracle; the miracle to end all miracles, even more miraculous that the creation of the entire universe itself.

> Millions (billions??) of sane people speak to God everyday.

And they're all ignored by him.

So what, you're saying billions of people can't be wrong? You know better than that.

There are approximately 4300 religions. Most of them don't worship the same god(s) and claim their god(s) are the only true god(s) and everyone else is cursed for eternity.

There are about 2 billion christians, 1 billion muslims and 1 billion Atheists/agnosts. That accounts for half or the worlds population. The other half adheres to one or more of the remaining 4300-something religions and (the growth market for Islam.)

So if you're a christian, 4 out of 6 people believe you are wrong, while you believe that 4 out of 6 people are headed for an eternity in hell.

> blind to any metaphysical reality

Lack of understanding does not make something divine or metaphysical.

If you don't understand how magnetism works, it may well appear to you to be proof of god or the supernatural.
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      06-05-2007, 07:02 AM   #364
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And they're all ignored by him.

There are many reasons Allah does not answer people's du'as (prayers). Firstly, you might be asking for something that is not good for you. Secondly, Allah always tests our patience and faith. There are many reasons...

I do feel that Allah listens to me. For example, you said to me that "it would be proof that Allah existed if his messengers went to different lands, spoke different languages, but spoke the same message." Or words to that effect. I knew it was in the Quran but I wasn't sure where, but I asked Allah to help me find it. I had faith that he would help me find it. Somehow, the Quran opened at the exact chapter which was called "The Prophets" and I infact found the evidence you asked for. I know you'll probably think this is a coincidence, oh well...
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      06-05-2007, 07:44 AM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y View Post
I found someone today who has heard of "Allah."

I'm not sure if it is correct or not........but here it is.

He told me that Allah is the Lord of Hindu.
Allah is an idea invented by Muhammad Muslim to combat the 'People of the Book' as well as their God. In short, Allah = Satan.
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      06-05-2007, 07:46 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by elucas730 View Post
Allah is an idea invented by Muhammad Muslim to combat the 'People of the Book' as well as their God. In short, Allah = Satan.
That's your opinion. Please do show proof that Allah is Satan if you have any...
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      06-05-2007, 01:21 PM   #367
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What occurred to me after reading many posts in this thread is that human brain is an evolutionary link between "physical" world and billions of metaphysical worlds that have been created by human imagination. Billions of metaphysical worlds appear and disappear every minute and they are real if those who create them perceive them as real.

No, I don't smoke pot ...
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      06-05-2007, 01:22 PM   #368
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hks, you come across as having an OCD: prove this, prove that ... Relax and enjoy YOUR Allah.
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      06-05-2007, 01:40 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
hks, you come across as having an OCD: prove this, prove that ... Relax and enjoy YOUR Allah.
I have not insulted anyone else's religion or personal beliefs. I may not agree with them, but I always say it in a nice way. Now when someone say's "Allah = Satan" do you think I am not going to respond? Of course I would. I didn't respond in a violent way like some people do when their beliefs are attacked, I merely said "prove it"...What's the big deal anyway? I wasn't talkin to you...
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      06-05-2007, 01:45 PM   #370
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If Allah is real, as you believe, what can a derogatory comment from one of 6 billion mortals do to Allah's power? NOTHING. So, relax, YOUR Allah is in no danger.

Now, if YOU were offended, then you should check your pride settings. And are you claiming injury because you think you have some proprietory interest in Allah?
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      06-05-2007, 01:50 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
If Allah is real, as you believe, what can a derogatory comment from one of 6 billion mortals do to Allah's power? NOTHING. So, relax, YOUR Allah is in no danger.

Now, if YOU were offended, then you should check your pride settings. And are you claiming injury because you think you have some proprietory interest in Allah?
Your right, it doesnt detract anything from Allah's power, as mentioned in the Quran...

So what does a reply to such a comment from another one of 6 billion mortals do to you? I wasnt talking to you...
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      06-05-2007, 02:08 PM   #372
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This is not a PM environment, if you didn't notice. Everyone is entitled and welcomed to comment on everyone else's posts. In the future, please use PM if you want only a specific person to respond.
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      06-05-2007, 02:33 PM   #373
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> No, I don't smoke pot ...

Yeah, but the mushrooms, man.

The really frightening thing is that you can't prove to yourself that the world around you is real.
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      06-05-2007, 02:40 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
> No, I don't smoke pot ...

Yeah, but the mushrooms, man.

The really frightening thing is that you can't prove to yourself that the world around you is real.
So true... Looks like we are on the same page.
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