Blind brake pad test

[PrimeBMW]

Blind brake pad test:

I wanted to post up this article from Grass Roots motorsport magazine. We all have our favorite brand of pad but what is the best pad when it comes to speed? Keep in mind that the driver in this test is very good and on sticky tires (Hoosier R-6). That doesn't mean that a beginner or intermediate driver should go out on street tires with these ultra aggressive pads. (I currently run Cobalt XR-1 but I started with the XR-2)

Feel free to discuss.

[bigjae1976]

From a numbers perspective, I'd say the Hawk DTC-70's have the potential to be the fastest considering the rear pads were causing issues.

[Sleeper519]

nice article, thanks OP. I'm curious now about the Cobalts. how is the pad life and rotor wear? I don't mind buying expensive pads but they've got to last and not eat my discs for lunch.

[yandy]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

nice article, thanks OP. I'm curious now about the Cobalts. how is the pad life and rotor wear? I don't mind buying expensive pads but they've got to last and not eat my discs for lunch.

+1

Hard to find that balance though, seems like it's one or the other.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

nice article, thanks OP. I'm curious now about the Cobalts. how is the pad life and rotor wear? I don't mind buying expensive pads but they've got to last and not eat my discs for lunch.

They can have lunch...just not 3 square meals!

[admranger]

Thanks for posting this. What issue is this from?

I'm pretty sure my front set of PFC Direct Drive rotors came from this test! I bought them from James a while back. Still have 0.049" of wear remaining on them. No cracks at all. Still straight and true.

[1MOREMOD]

looks to me like cant go wrong with hawk, pfc, or cobalt and just have to find the one that suits your style and driver profile best. dont really think the .3 second variation per lap there is statistically significant. but i need a math nerd to tell me. never tried any of these actually but have cobalts in the garage to go on next.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

From a numbers perspective, I'd say the Hawk DTC-70's have the potential to be the fastest considering the rear pads were causing issues.

It is possible but would never know.......Hawk is the one that supplied the pads. You would think they would know best about their compound and application but I guess not.........

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by Sleeper519

nice article, thanks OP. I'm curious now about the Cobalts. how is the pad life and rotor wear? I don't mind buying expensive pads but they've got to last and not eat my discs for lunch.

I hear that the Cobalts have better wear but I don’t know if there is data to back that up (I like data).
I can tell you what I have experienced.
Car: E46 M3
Brakes: AP Racing with full floating front rotors.
Pads: Cobalt XR-1 front and rear
Tires: Yokohama A-005 race slicks
I share the car with the builder. He is a fast driver......could drive Grand Am if he had the proper sponsorship. I can almost keep up with him if I have some practice. We bought the BBK from an endurance team that runs the 25hours of Thunderhill. The pads will last 13+ straight hours in that race. Rotors much longer. (The only reason they sold us the kit is that they wanted an enduro BBK that could go all 25 hours without a pad change.....he wants the AP BBK back )
This last season we both ran HPDE, Open lapping days, Time trials, customer joy rides, test & tune and one race. I am guessing the equivalent of 25-30 days. Went through two sets of used front rotors and two sets of used front pads that came with the BBK. So I paid Zero $ for pads and rotors in 2013.
Performance: From either first hand experience or watching a GoPro I can tell you that the car will out brake any Porsche including 911 cup cars (haven't gone up against a 911 RSR), AMLM Audi R8, VLN Audi TTRS, World Challenge Viper, Trans Am cars (850 whp Nascar engine in a tube frame).

Not me nor my car but Eddie driving the E46 M3 Stammer car with Cobalt XR-1.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by admranger

Thanks for posting this. What issue is this from?

I'm pretty sure my front set of PFC Direct Drive rotors came from this test! I bought them from James a while back. Still have 0.049" of wear remaining on them. No cracks at all. Still straight and true.

I am not sure. A friend of mine whom is a Cobalt dealer keeps a scanned copy on his computer. He guessed Oct of 2012.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

looks to me like cant go wrong with hawk, pfc, or cobalt and just have to find the one that suits your style and driver profile best. dont really think the .3 second variation per lap there is statistically significant. but i need a math nerd to tell me. never tried any of these actually but have cobalts in the garage to go on next.

For HPDE maybe not but I only have fun if I am faster than everyone else . They do go on to say that in a theoretical 11 lap race the Cobalt XR-1 car would have won by 2.76 seconds.

For the life of me I dont understand why more E9x M3 guys are not aware of Cobalt Friction.......maybe they just focus on racers.

[admranger]

What is your g load under braking? It has to be at least 1.5g, though it is hard to tell from a night race. Probably more.

Loved the "need...more...power" caption. Yeah, who doesn't?

That night driving stuff is nuts. I did it exactly once, at LVMS (the big track). It was in August and we finished the 3 hr race at midnight. Air temp was exactly 100 deg F. Finished on 4 barely corded Toyo RA-1 tires. Perfect!

[PrimeBMW]

They recorded 1.9 g in the corners so has to be more for braking. You can see that the e46 M3 can out corner both VWs.
It was so cold in this race they had to put card board on the entire front of the radiator just to get the engine up to operating range. Typically start tires at 22 going up to 28-30......but pressure only when up 1 degree and ran two tires off the bead.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

They recorded 1.9 g in the corners so has to be more for braking. You can see that the e46 M3 can out corner both VWs.
It was so cold in this race they had to put card board on the entire front of the radiator just to get the engine up to operating range. Typically start tires at 22 going up to 28-30......but pressure only when up 1 degree and ran two tires off the bead.

Damn. That's neck stretching force there. If you had 1.9g in the corner, you should have seen 2.2+ or more (2.5?) under braking. Nice grip levels!

[PrimeBMW]

slowest speed turn 1 at Thunderhill is 96-97......got a little power oversteer there!

I really pay for it if I am not working out........the entire torso can be sore for 3 days.

[1MOREMOD]

I can attest to the braking power of this car, not sure its just the pads, whole set up is right. I've been in it and it brakes a ton more than my e46, or anything else I've been in.

[NRBRNG]

Cobalt XR1's for the e92 are fantastic. Great on rotors too. I get 2 seasons out of front ST60 rotors and 4 days out of front cobalts, about 8 from rears.
Seriously, they are the way to go.
I agree with Mr Prime. I have never been out-braked by anything, and as the test shows it makes a big difference over laps and a session.
Great testing data.

[Porschefile]

Interesting article. I wonder whether the fact that James and the rest of BW are used to PFC pads contributed to his comments on them (and they're PFC-backed).

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by NRBRNG

Cobalt XR1's for the e92 are fantastic. Great on rotors too. I get 2 seasons out of front ST60 rotors and 4 days out of front cobalts, about 8 from rears.
Seriously, they are the way to go.
I agree with Mr Prime. I have never been out-braked by anything, and as the test shows it makes a big difference over laps and a session.
Great testing data.

We have been chasing each other around the track for the past year! Very fast car/driver using the same yoko race slicks. Notice that if a person is running NT-01, BFG-R1, Hoosier R6 you should get significantly better pad and rotor life.

[Billj747]

Big fan of PFC 01s. Excellent pad with great pedal feel, modulation, and consistency. It does not have the effortless initial grab of some other pads but deceleration tends to follow pressure for better control.

I've loved them on everything from a NASCAR Nationwide car to DPs, GT cars, the record-holding FXMD Time Attack NSX and HPDE street cars. Despite not being a 'street' pad, I know a lot of people who DD them.


0.02

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Big fan of PFC 01s. Excellent pad with great pedal feel, modulation, and consistency. It does not have the effortless initial grab of some other pads but deceleration tends to follow pressure for better control.

I've loved them on everything from a NASCAR Nationwide car to DPs, GT cars, the record-holding FXMD Time Attack NSX and HPDE street cars. Despite not being a 'street' pad, I know a lot of people who DD them.


0.02

Says the guy whom is actually has a PFC sponsorship . In all seriousness I am sure all the top 3 finishers would do just fine. But I wanted to get the word out about Cobalt because not many folks on the forum are using them........and more should.
Let me put it this way: I would be more than happy to drive for a professional team with any pad.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

It is possible but would never know.......Hawk is the one that supplied the pads. You would think they would know best about their compound and application but I guess not.........

True. There are setups where a lower torque pad is spec'd. I think the E46 and E90 benefit from a little more rear pad bite than most other cars.