Probably Repetitive Supercharger Questions

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by img

Most people when they decide to buy a supercharger based on performance don't care about a driver's results (ET) in the 1/4 mile. If they're buying for power performance they compare trap speed instead.

agreed.

these kits all make such huge power anyway. I think reliability and quality should be considered of paramount importance, because not all kits are created equally in that department.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by Brosef

agreed.

these kits all make such huge power anyway. I think reliability and quality should be considered of paramount importance, because not all kits are created equally in that department.

I was there, EAS car is no doubt an awesome looking one but at the end of the day it's a vendor prepped car being driven by a pro driver and being compared to customers cars.
Also the rules where changed from i think 30 or 45 min session to 2 lap sessions with a 15 min cool down.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by img

I was there, EAS car is no doubt an awesome looking one but at the end of the day it's a vendor prepped car being driven by a pro driver and being compared to customers cars.
Also the rules where changed from i think 30 or 45 min session to 2 lap sessions with a 15 min cool down.

The kit on our M3 is no different than any off-the-shelf system we've sold and all mods have been listed in numerous threads. More VF kits will be on the street soon, as well as G-Power and soon Evolve.

Interesting on how defensive people get when competition is present. It shouldn't have to be this way.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

The kit on our M3 is no different than any off-the-shelf system we've sold and all mods have been listed in numerous threads. More VF kits will be on the street soon, as well as G-Power and soon Evolve.

Interesting on how defensive people get when competition is present. It shouldn't have to be this way.

I was not being defensive and i complemented your car Tom, I did not mention or ask questions regarding what kit/pulley/amount of boost you are running.

All what i said " IT IS A VENDOR PREPPED CAR ". meaning,It has Coilovers, Roll cage,BBK,Seats and all the necessary parts to be driven on the track

[Mbauer]

It was a Tuner Shoot out, you could have contributed any car you want. A 30 min track session is more impressive than 11 seconds of throttle in a straight line in my opinion.

[tightie]

I just wanted to comment in the pissing war

[IMG]

Originally Posted by Mbauer

It was a Tuner Shoot out, you could have contributed any car you want. A 30 min track session is more impressive than 11 seconds of throttle in a straight line in my opinion.

The tuner shootout was not a 30-minute session. It was two warm up laps, ten minute cool down, then one hot lap. I was there. The shootout was not a 30-minute enduro. It was ONE HOT LAP...that's it.

The lap times of each car for each lap were posted on MFestForum. That post and data is now conveniently removed. I wonder why.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by Mbauer

It was a Tuner Shoot out, you could have contributed any car you want. A 30 min track session is more impressive than 11 seconds of throttle in a straight line in my opinion.

A full 30 min track session during the shootout would have been cool but for some reason at the last minute they decided to make it a quick 2 lap warm up with a cooldown then a 1 lap run. The actual shootout was just a 1 lap run with cars that had a chance to cooldown. The original plan I was told by the event staff was to have a minimum 20 min session without pits to see if the cars could hold up. Any car that had to pit would be disqualified. I guess someone thought this would be a bad idea and changed the format. Anyone who said the shootout was a 30 min session is misinformed, not telling the truth or was not there.

As far as discussing performce numbers 1/4 mile trap speed will tell you how much power a car is making, ET will tell you how well the power was put down. If a car is going 132 at the 1/4 mile mark and another is going 126 on the same track there is a big difference in power output between the two cars. ET is about your 60 ft and getting a good launch. a higher HP car can have wheel spin when launched which will result in a higher ET but will trap at a higher mph as it makes more power. This comparison only applies if the cars are run on the same track with similar DA's as there are variables that can skew results.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Mbauer

It was a Tuner Shoot out, you could have contributed any car you want. A 30 min track session is more impressive than 11 seconds of throttle in a straight line in my opinion.

They tried to enter 2 cars in the event to increase the odds on the Tuner Challenge. One was kicked out.

I agree on the extended sessions, these cars are meant to be enjoyed much more than 10 seconds at a time.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Mbauer

It was a Tuner Shoot out, you could have contributed any car you want. A 30 min track session is more impressive than 11 seconds of throttle in a straight line in my opinion.

Broski, MOST people buy a supercharger kit because they want to go faster, in a straight line. Most of us don't track our cars, and I would guess the majority that do have no desire to add FI. As far as track performance, from what I've read, all of the kits on the market seem to have performed well, the specifics of the track certainly matter, but unlike a straight line race, the driver is not as important as they are on a track, especially with DCT. Put Jordan Y in any Supercharged M3 and he'd do well, put him in a N/A M3 and I bet he'd run just as fast if not faster than any average driver in a supercharged M3.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Broski, MOST people buy a supercharger kit because they want to go faster, in a straight line. Most of us don't track our cars, and I would guess the majority that do have no desire to add FI. As far as track performance, from what I've read, all of the kits on the market seem to have performed well, the specifics of the track certainly matter, but unlike a straight line race, the driver is not as important as they are on a track, especially with DCT. Put Jordan Y in any Supercharged M3 and he'd do well, put him in a N/A M3 and I bet he'd run just as fast if not faster than any average driver in a supercharged M3.

True

Last years Mfest there was a top notch pro driver in a NA M3 that had RPI exhaust, KW suspension and ESS NA tune and he was destroying cars that had hundreds of HP more than he did including all of the supercharged M3's.

[Will@P]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

More VF kits will be on the street soon, as well as G-Power and soon Evolve.
.

More VF kits indeed are making their way to the east coast!

[quads]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

Dont forget the others.

E9X M3's Supercharged in order of trap speed

11.71 @ 132.26 MPH - 2.14 60' - ERM324 / E92M3 DCT / ESS VT625 / 100 octane / Nitto DR's
11.41 @ 131.67 MPH - 2.06 60' - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT / Gintani Stage 2 / MS109/ WM / BFG DR's
10.87 @ 131.40 MPH - 1.87 60' - Mikewads / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT600 - 100 shot / 93/100 Mix / MT ET
10.69 @ 129.38 MPH - 1.63 60' - Mike@VAC, (Klevis@VAC - Driver) / E92 M3 DCT / VF620 SC / 93 Octane / MT ET
11.30 @ 129.34 MPH - 1.97 60' - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT625 / 95 Octane / WM / Nitto DR's
11.29 @ 126.70 MPH - 1.84 60' - akh23456 / E90 M3 DCT /AA Stage 2 / 93 Octane / WM / Street tires
11.64 @ 124.27 MPH - 1.81 60' - M&M / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT625 / WM / 7800' DA
11.61 @ 123.17 MPH - 1.83 60' - Smokeyob / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT600 / Akrapovic Evolution / 93 Oct/ Pilot Super Sport
11.68 @ 122.44 MPH - 1.87 60' - 1SICKM / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT 535 / 93 octane / Street tires
11.94 @ 118.66 MPH - 1.93 60' - prodigymb / E92 M3 6-MT / ESS VT600 / 93 octane / DR's

E9X Supercharged M3's 60-130

6.16 - Madsex343 /E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT600 / 94 octane / 3 shifts
6.23 - Mikewads / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT600 SC, 100shot Nitrous 3rd on/93oct/3 shifts
6.36 - Gpower / E92 M3 6-MT / Gpower SKIII SC - Built Motor / 1 shift
6.46 - M&M / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT625 / Raised Rev Limiter / 94 Octane/ WM / 3 shifts
6.56 - Tom@EAS / E92 M3 DCT / VF620 SC / 91/100 mix / 2 shifts
6.64 - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT725 - Built Motor / 91 Octane / 3 shifts
6.78 - Mikewads / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT600 SC / 93 octane / 3 shifts
6.80 - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT / ESS VT625 SC / 95 octane / WM / 3 shifts
6.96 - Tightie / E92 M3 6-MT / Gintani Stage 3 SC / 91 octane / WM / 2 shifts
7.06 - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT / Gintani Stage 2 SC / 91 octane / WM / 3 shifts
7.52 - IMG / E92 M3 6-MT / ESS VT625 SC / 93 octane / 2 shifts
7.58 - Pencilgeek / E92 M3 6-MT / R46 Stroker ESS VT600 SC / 3.15 gears / 100 octane / 1 shift
7.88 - M33 / E92 M3 6-MT / ESS VT625 SC / 93 octane / 2 shifts
8.31 - biglare / E90 M3 DCT / ESS VT575 SC / 3.62 Gears / 91 Octane / 2 shifts
8.95 - sammyrusso / E92 M3 DCT / Gintani Stage 1 SC / 91 Octane / 3 shifts
9.00 - EugeneTawain / E92 M3 6-MT / Gpower SKII SC / 91 Octane / 2shifts


Best advice I can give if you are looking into doing a supercharger is to spend time talking to people who own superchargers and search for independent performance results and reviews from customers. One thing we are very proud of at ESS is that over the years the best performance results and reviews of our superchargers have not been from us or our dealers but from our customers. At the end of the day that's what matters most to us.

I'm one of those customers I did gobs of research, talked to all the companies that offered FI and realized ESS is the only way to go for me - for both performance and reliability. I've already put over 10k of street and maybe 50 track days and the car is performing great. I'm glad I chose ESS and am never looking back - never had to.

[Mbauer]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Broski, MOST people buy a supercharger kit because they want to go faster, in a straight line. Most of us don't track our cars, and I would guess the majority that do have no desire to add FI. As far as track performance, from what I've read, all of the kits on the market seem to have performed well, the specifics of the track certainly matter, but unlike a straight line race, the driver is not as important as they are on a track, especially with DCT. Put Jordan Y in any Supercharged M3 and he'd do well, put him in a N/A M3 and I bet he'd run just as fast if not faster than any average driver in a supercharged M3.

Drew I would actually disagree slightly. MOST people buy M3's because they like the way they drive, and it shows especially on the track. I suggest doing a ride and drive! Im sure we would almost all agree that BMW's drive better on the track than most other manufactures. BMW has always produced chassis that are underpowered, so it is natural to want to add more power. If the consumer just wanted more power and not an all around driving car they probly would have picked up a C63 instead?

Consumers are looking to add more power to these cars thats why ESS, VF, EVOLVE and Gintani are all in business right? Not every supercharged M3 customer is driving around with a VBOX, hitting the drags every night, or spending the weekend on the road course. They just want the ultimate driving machine with MORE power!

There is another pole on this forum here somewhere, I'm too lazy to look for it. However it was "what is the most important aspect when choosing a supercharger kit" or something close to that. The number one pick was reliability, it was not power. I'm sure you could also draw the conclusion that most people would give up 10hp for 20k more miles of reliability.

Gentlemen there is no trophy for "Best Supercharger Kit". So there is no need to have a pissing match over it. Everyone wants to compare Vbox times ect which is cool dont get me wrong, but the elements are not the same. There is no true apple to apple comparison on power. Dyno's-someones dyno reads high than someone elses. Track-Someone has a Pro driver. Strip- Someone has a faster time but slower trap. The list goes on......

I think the Tuner Shoot out was a good idea. It could have probly gone better. I agree only one lap was not enough. I would also say you had plenty time to practice. Sure one lap may not show the full potential of a kit, a continuous beating on a regular basis might sway me a lil more. I hate dynos because they can be manipulated. Someone is putting ICE on the intake or inside the heat exchanger, counting blips as peak hp, or hell flat out manipulation of the run file. Its only showing 1 run!

At the end of that day, I enjoy my supercharger for what it is.....more excitement! I had some serious exit speed out of an apex on Ortega last weekend, it made my day Thats what its all about, enjoying your car without headache.

For the OP, sorry for the shenanigans on here, and YES im enjoying the shit out of my car on the regular basis. Cheers

[quads]

Originally Posted by akh23456

how did your one lap of america go?

One lap went awesome... a HUGE difference from the previous year which I ran completely stock.

We did great until the last event at road america, we had locked in 8th overall and 1st in class but something terrible happened... we ran out of gas two turns before the finish line and dropped to 12th over all and 2nd in class. We were hanging with some really fast cars - highly modified gtr's and vettes - some of them we behind us before the incident. Overall it was fun but you can be sure we'll be back next year

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Mbauer

Drew I would actually disagree slightly. MOST people buy M3's because they like the way they drive, and it shows especially on the track. I suggest doing a ride and drive! Im sure we would almost all agree that BMW's drive better on the track than most other manufactures. BMW has always produced chassis that are underpowered, so it is natural to want to add more power. If the consumer just wanted more power and not an all around driving car they probly would have picked up a C63 instead?

Don't disagree with that, I wasn't referring to why they may have bought an M3, I'm talking about why, for the most part, people bought a supercharger for their M3. FWIW the C63 and E92 DCT M3 are very close off the lot.

Originally Posted by Mbauer

Consumers are looking to add more power to these cars thats why ESS, VF, EVOLVE and Gintani are all in business right? Not every supercharged M3 customer is driving around with a VBOX, hitting the drags every night, or spending the weekend on the road course. They just want the ultimate driving machine with MORE power!

Agreed, but this has nothing to do with what I or a few others chose to do with the car, like doing Vbox runs or drag racing, or tracking the car, but rather just conventional wisdom of why anyone, in any platform would add FI to their car, again they want to go faster.

Originally Posted by Mbauer

There is another pole on this forum here somewhere, I'm too lazy to look for it. However it was "what is the most important aspect when choosing a supercharger kit" or something close to that. The number one pick was reliability, it was not power. I'm sure you could also draw the conclusion that most people would give up 10hp for 20k more miles of reliability.

Reliability has to be proven over time, and of course it should be part of one's decision, BUT people still install a supercharger on their M3 by and large because they want to go faster, and for the most part in a straight line.

Originally Posted by Mbauer

Everyone wants to compare Vbox times ect which is cool dont get me wrong, but the elements are not the same. There is no true apple to apple comparison on power. Dyno's-someones dyno reads high than someone elses. Track-Someone has a Pro driver. Strip- Someone has a faster time but slower trap. The list goes on......

I agree but there is a way to look at this objectively without tuner bias. Who would argue against the fact that a pro driver makes all the difference on a road coarse? I think its pretty universally accepted that most FI guys want a higher trap vs. a lower ET, especially if it's on street tires, personally I want both and certainly most of the kits out there are very capable in that regard. As far as it being imperfect when comparing times, traps, etc. I agree as well, which is why the 60-130 and 1/4 mile list has a disclaimer.

When comparing the below 60-130 and 1/4 mile results, please keep in mind that variances in temperature, humidity, road surface conditions, tire grip, and driver input can all have a measurable impact on the data.

Originally Posted by Mbauer

At the end of that day, I enjoy my supercharger for what it is.....more excitement! I had some serious exit speed out of an apex on Ortega last weekend, it made my day Thats what its all about, enjoying your car without headache.

Well said Brother!

[sovietjet]

Good info here!

[Brian_VACsales]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I think its pretty universally accepted that most FI guys want a higher trap vs. a lower ET, especially if it's on street tires

Well, the 600+ kits are so close it doesn't really matter IMO. If my car ran a best trap of 129.x and your car ran a best of 131 I'd bet the cars would be dead even under normal circumstances on the street.

OP: I suggest talking to kit owners in real life. Get ride alongs, possibly drive their cars - there is no better way to figure it out.

[sales@ESSTuning]

Originally Posted by 4sevens.com

One lap went awesome... a HUGE difference from the previous year which I ran completely stock.

We did great until the last event at road america, we had locked in 8th overall and 1st in class but something terrible happened... we ran out of gas two turns before the finish line and dropped to 12th over all and 2nd in class. We were hanging with some really fast cars - highly modified gtr's and vettes - some of them we behind us before the incident. Overall it was fun but you can be sure we'll be back next year

Need the hybrid superchrger

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Mike@VAC

Well, the 600+ kits are so close it doesn't really matter IMO. If my car ran a best trap of 129.x and your car ran a best of 131 I'd bet the cars would be dead even under normal circumstances on the street.

OP: I suggest talking to kit owners in real life. Get ride alongs, possibly drive their cars - there is no better way to figure it out.

Agreed they are close, your car (VAC VF setup) is the only one to do it right at the drags, with a line lock, good tires, and an amazing 60'. If other 600+ kits ran it as you did, 10's would be more common, negative DA certainly helped, either way incredible job on your part. Would love to see some side by side runs between the kits, in all the runs I did with my car before the build, it ran extremely well against some amazing cars. We're having another Airstrip event in November would be great to see some different kits out there besides ESS.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by Will@PRS

More VF kits indeed are making their way to the east coast!

Looking forward in helping make that happen.

[MNm3]

Okay then... definitely got a lot of good info here.

I won't be tracking the car much as I am in the process of building my e36 m3 race car. Maybe I'll take it to a HPDE on occasion to switch things up, but thats about it. Mostly it will be a weekend driver, and garage queen...

Does anyone know if somebody in Colorado has a SC kit?