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      07-13-2016, 08:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtaron14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93 View Post
Take my advise - if buying a new kit, go for the Harrop and BPM tune.

If buying the kit you are currently evaluating used - still get the BPM tune.

I have the same kit you are looking at, and now wish I would have purchased the Harrop. More low end TQ for daily driving, less maintenance, and better looking fit/finish IMO.

Retain the stock air box with the Harrop too.
I've been with the Harrop & BPM since 2014
Glad you're still enjoying it, I love every moment with mine!

Nothing beats the low end torque, quality, ease of installation, and fit/finish of this kit
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      07-13-2016, 10:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
ESS 650 kit. had for 4 years and 38,000 miles.

Negatives: Nothing

Positives:



and

Thanks man I've seen those videos your car is a fcken beast you walked on almost every car lol your keeping your car or switching to the f80?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
They both drag on the crank. They both run relatively low boost. A VT650 kit runs more boost than a Harrop but the Harrop makes boost so much sooner that you will be in boost more with the Harrop. On the other hand, you will have more power at lower rpm with the Harrop so maybe you will feel less need to run to redline. Probably about equal.
I know I feel like I would like boost to kick in a lower rpm rather than stay redlining it all day.. But I feel like the whining noise would be annoying after a while? Idk
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      07-13-2016, 10:40 PM   #25
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Some vortechs whine. Some are barely noticeable. These engines have a lot of mechanical noise anyway. I would not base my decision on whine. Ideally, Id drive a good example of each and then decide which I liked more for my driving style.
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      07-14-2016, 07:42 AM   #26
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Gentlemen, good discussion here about the differing power bands.

One thing I would like to point out with the ESS kit is that despite the lower boost in low rpm range, it still produces a lot more torque than stock and throttle response is further heightened. No need to grab a lower gear to pass in traffic ever.

But much more importantly, the ESS powerband actually allows you to use all that power in every gear. It matches the chassis perfectly and with a good set of street tires and maybe some more solid subframe bushings to unitize the subframe and chassis, you can actually out launch nearly every car including all wheel drive cars. I showed this in my vid above where I out launched a couple Audi AWD cars including an R8 v10 which is a low 3-second 0-60 beast.
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      07-14-2016, 10:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Gentlemen, good discussion here about the differing power bands.

One thing I would like to point out with the ESS kit is that despite the lower boost in low rpm range, it still produces a lot more torque than stock and throttle response is further heightened. No need to grab a lower gear to pass in traffic ever.

But much more importantly, the ESS powerband actually allows you to use all that power in every gear. It matches the chassis perfectly and with a good set of street tires and maybe some more solid subframe bushings to unitize the subframe and chassis, you can actually out launch nearly every car including all wheel drive cars. I showed this in my vid above where I out launched a couple Audi AWD cars including an R8 v10 which is a low 3-second 0-60 beast.
Thanks for your input.. Did you do the bearing or your still running stock bearings? I'm worried about the motor more than anything otherwise I would have done it years ago.. Boost kicks in at what? 4K?
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      07-14-2016, 10:56 AM   #28
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I've been craving low end torque lately and have considered moving to the F8x for that reason. At the same time I am seriously considering going Harrop on the e9x. Ultimately this would be a much cheaper option, especially since my car is decently modded already.

For me it would be for DD enjoy-ability and then of course it would be fun to have more power on tap at the track as well (road course).

Good comments all around.

Longboarder your car is a beast!
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      07-14-2016, 11:47 AM   #29
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///Mobbin - I have a 625 kit now and the power is fantastic.

Longboarder is spot on with his assessment and feedback, these kits have more than sufficient low end grunt to scratch that itch.

It simply comes down to personal taste for your driving style and appetite.

I will say - I have rode in a Harrop M3...very impressed with the power off the line, and the whine/noise isn't an issue once above 40 mph or so....and the fit/finish is wonderful.
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      07-14-2016, 11:55 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerkiraios00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Gentlemen, good discussion here about the differing power bands.

One thing I would like to point out with the ESS kit is that despite the lower boost in low rpm range, it still produces a lot more torque than stock and throttle response is further heightened. No need to grab a lower gear to pass in traffic ever.

But much more importantly, the ESS powerband actually allows you to use all that power in every gear. It matches the chassis perfectly and with a good set of street tires and maybe some more solid subframe bushings to unitize the subframe and chassis, you can actually out launch nearly every car including all wheel drive cars. I showed this in my vid above where I out launched a couple Audi AWD cars including an R8 v10 which is a low 3-second 0-60 beast.
Thanks for your input.. Did you do the bearing or your still running stock bearings? I'm worried about the motor more than anything otherwise I would have done it years ago.. Boost kicks in at what? 4K?
I did the bearings at 32k miles. All boosted except the first 900. I'm now at 38k and still going strong!

Regarding boost, the blower is always spinning even at idle. While it's likely that boost is still zero at say 2,500 rpm, the car makes way more power than stock at that level. In fact while the positive displacement Harrop blower makes high boost at the same 2,500 rpm, the dynos that I've seen with an overlay of the ESS dynos show that the Harrop isn't making much more power at this level. Yes it's making more power, but not a lot more than with the centrifugal vortech. These motors like to spin and so does the centrifugal. So the real fun begins at 5,000rpm and becomes almost unreal past 7,000rpm particularly with the 650 system that uses a different pulley system that doesn't slip at the top end unlike the 625 that seems some slippage and less boost up top.
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      07-14-2016, 12:19 PM   #31
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Study posts 1085-1089 in the attached link to compare the twinscrew to the centrifugal.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ess625&page=50
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      07-14-2016, 01:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerkiraios00 View Post
Thanks man I've seen those videos your car is a fcken beast you walked on almost every car lol your keeping your car or switching to the f80?
I have zero interest in an F8X. First off it's not a good looking car at all IMHO. Secondly it's completely uninspiring. That engine power curve and exhaust note are pretty sad. It's a fantastic car for many but not me.

I'm always switching up cars and as I get older my tastes change. I really love my M3 and thought about swapping it for a Ferrari 430 or 458 but I actually liked my M3 better the way I have it built. I would definitely swap it for a hybrid "hyper" car but unfortunately the Porsche 918, LaFerrari and MacLaren P1 are way out of my price point. Maybe there is something else out there with similar technology that would interest me.
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      07-14-2016, 03:10 PM   #33
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Does anyone know what OEM platform the Harrop (Eaton) supercharger went into? They mentioned this in some of their earlier marketing materials.

EDIT: Answer found, it's the same Eaton supercharger found in the new Z06 Corvette, LINK

That's pretty cool.
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      07-14-2016, 08:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mobbin View Post
Does anyone know what OEM platform the Harrop (Eaton) supercharger went into? They mentioned this in some of their earlier marketing materials.

EDIT: Answer found, it's the same Eaton supercharger found in the new Z06 Corvette, LINK

That's pretty cool.
In 2007, Toyota Australia's TRD Aurion (Camry) was the first production car to use Eaton TVS tehchnology.

Now it's on Audi 3.0 TFSI V6, Corvette ZR1, Cadillac CTS-V, Jaguar XFR, Lotus Evora S, Range Rover 5.0 V8, Mustang GT500.
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      07-14-2016, 08:44 PM   #35
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We did not get that super Camry in the US. Sounds like fun.
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      07-14-2016, 10:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
ESS 650 kit. had for 4 years and 38,000 miles.

Negatives: Nothing
Doesn't the 650 require a built motor? I thought 625 was the limit for stock.

Ever dyno your car?

DCT stock?

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      07-15-2016, 12:28 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xaappx View Post
Doesn't the 650 require a built motor? I thought 625 was the limit for stock.

Ever dyno your car?

DCT stock?

No does not require a built motor, if the car is one of the ones that does not have a bad bearing issue it should be fine. If your one of the unlucky guys any version SC will drastically increase the time before failure.
Mine for instance stock at 32k the bearings when changed were into the copper, from 32k-59k I was supercharged and on new bearings at which point they spun.
I say if your going to supercharge then have your bearings pulled/swapped. If your showing excessive wear then I would not supercharge the car even on new bearings as your just going to see the same wear just faster.
Built motor with new crank/better tolerances etc at that point would be only safe way to run it for any decent amount of time.
Trust me.. its a very bad feeling when this engine craps out on you, term 'money pit' comes to mind.
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      07-15-2016, 06:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squartus View Post
No does not require a built motor, if the car is one of the ones that does not have a bad bearing issue it should be fine. If your one of the unlucky guys any version SC will drastically increase the time before failure.
Mine for instance stock at 32k the bearings when changed were into the copper, from 32k-59k I was supercharged and on new bearings at which point they spun.
I say if your going to supercharge then have your bearings pulled/swapped. If your showing excessive wear then I would not supercharge the car even on new bearings as your just going to see the same wear just faster.
Built motor with new crank/better tolerances etc at that point would be only safe way to run it for any decent amount of time.
Trust me.. its a very bad feeling when this engine craps out on you, term 'money pit' comes to mind.
You blew your motor and rebuilt it? Kept the sc? The shop I might go to said that they'd do a black stone test on my car and take it from there? But idk how accurate that is ?
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      07-15-2016, 11:54 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xaappx View Post
Doesn't the 650 require a built motor? I thought 625 was the limit for stock.

Ever dyno your car?

DCT stock?

No built motor....stock but I did do rod bearings after 30,000 supercharged miles. ESS recommends 93 octane and catless exhaust. I'm in SoCal with only access to 91. It actually does ok on 91 but is way down on power so I wouldn't recommend it. Over over the past few years I've been running e17-e22, which is a small mix of e85 with 91.

Yes I have over 100 dyno pulls at EAS trying numerous configurations (ESS 600, ESS 625, ESS 650, with stock exhaust, with catless exhaust, with 200 cel exhaust, with meth, without meth with water tank, pump gas, race gas, ethanol mixes, etc) I've posted most of the dynos here.

The car made the most power on the dyno with the ESS 650 kit catless MRF mid pipe with Akra slip-on with what I guess is about 93-94 octane. (mix of pump 91 with some VP100 pump which I found out later was actually 97 octane). It made consistent 580 wheel HP on the EAS dyno in this form. Highest was 583.

I later turned the car into my daily, swapping the MRF mid pipe to a full Akra Evolution. On my daily blend of e17-e22, the car makes about 570 wheel HP. On race gas mix with MS109 and pump 91 it makes around 560 wheel HP. I race the car on the same ethanol and pump gas mix. It's cheap and reliable.

My water/ice tank gives the car no extra power on the dyno, but it helps the car keep HP. We can lose 100+ or more when the IATs rise, which is a serious problem with the inefficient ESS air to water intercooler.

My DCT is stock with the GTS software.
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      07-15-2016, 01:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerkiraios00 View Post
You blew your motor and rebuilt it? Kept the sc? The shop I might go to said that they'd do a black stone test on my car and take it from there? But idk how accurate that is ?
Yes its at VAC being rebuilt now stroker/low compression pistions and keeping the supercharger.
My bearings spun 3,000 miles after a perfect blackstone report. They even gave me a note telling me how pristine it looked for a supercharged report. Your really not going to know whats going on with bearings unless you look at them, while oil report does catch some that are going bad.. are alot it does not catch.
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      07-15-2016, 03:44 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squartus View Post
Yes its at VAC being rebuilt now stroker/low compression pistions and keeping the supercharger.
My bearings spun 3,000 miles after a perfect blackstone report. They even gave me a note telling me how pristine it looked for a supercharged report. Your really not going to know whats going on with bearings unless you look at them, while oil report does catch some that are going bad.. are alot it does not catch.
Sorry to hear about your troubles but sounds like you have a very exciting build in process!!

Do you have to do a custom tune for this setup?
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      07-15-2016, 05:01 PM   #42
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Like most of the feedback you've been given so far, the supercharger kits definitely help in the torque deficiency the s65 suffers from. The only thing you may miss about the m3 after getting a supercharger is that you no longer have to wind up the motor nearly as much since your almost always in the powerband with a supercharger.

As for supercharger kits, I would say get one from ESS. Many vendors relatively near queens have great experience with their systems and it's much less of a hassle to install compared to for example, an Active Autowerke supercharger like what I have.
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      07-16-2016, 12:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mobbin View Post
Sorry to hear about your troubles but sounds like you have a very exciting build in process!!

Do you have to do a custom tune for this setup?
Yes need a custom tune, ESS has one for 4.4l low compression 625 that just needs a few tweaks and ill be good to go.
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      07-16-2016, 12:54 AM   #44
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I had the harrop kit on my car and OMG i loved it. Still do. I literally cant find a replacement car after I sold mine (93k miles and I couldnt take having a convertable anymore) and needed more space for my dogs (bought a raptor). Everyday I still look at used E92s and already have a part list ready. Just need to finish up my projects so I can start funding this one again
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