BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
BPM
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-20-2011, 06:09 PM   #1
Boost Meister
Banned
9
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Automobile Magazine 1M vs M3


Last edited by Boost Meister; 06-20-2011 at 06:15 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 06:17 PM   #2
radiantm3
Apex Everything!
radiantm3's Avatar
United_States
967
Rep
4,378
Posts

Drives: 2007 Honda S2000, 2017 GT350
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cedar Park, TX

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 E92 M3  [9.35]
2014 BMW i3  [10.00]
I predict the DCT guys will love this.
__________________
2011 E92 M3(Sold). 2007 Honda S2000 (Track Car). 2016 Cayman GT4 (Sold). 2017 Shelby GT350 (AKA Crowd Killer).

My pet project: https://stickershift.com
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 06:22 PM   #3
PhillyNate
ENTHUSIAST
PhillyNate's Avatar
United_States
135
Rep
2,097
Posts

Drives: 2010 Porsche Cayman
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Philadelphia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
When did Adam Sandler start reviewing cars?
__________________
"what I'm driving here...is an ending." Jeremy Clarkson
2010 Carrara White Porsche Cayman 6mt
2014 Whiteout Toyota GT-86 6mt(Sold 05/23/15)
2011 Alpine White BMW M3 6mt ZCP Coupe(forced retirement 06/06/14)
2008 Alpine White BMW 328i 6mt Coupe(retired 06/21/11
)
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 06:25 PM   #4
Boost Meister
Banned
9
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: 335i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyNate View Post
When did Adam Sandler start reviewing cars?
I thought the same thing when I saw the guy.
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 06:38 PM   #5
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1901
Rep
5,678
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Very entertaining review. I think that's the first orange car I have ever really liked.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 06:41 PM   #6
HBspeed
Lieutenant
HBspeed's Avatar
45
Rep
591
Posts

Drives: 05 M3, 00 Z3MC, Boxster Spyder
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
More like... The 1M with the M3's engine is what an M3 should be.

All the automatic transmission humor is spot on, and sure to ruffle some feathers here.

Imagine how focused and pure a drivers car the M3 would be today if it had NEVER been offered in automatic? Maybe a true evolution of the original E30 M3 as the video suggests. But then how is BMW gonna rake in the mega $$$$.
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 06:47 PM   #7
mPlasticDesign
Major General
mPlasticDesign's Avatar
684
Rep
5,069
Posts

Drives: BMW 230i Msport w/LSD
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Astral Projecting: ∞ 23.516 -122 02.625 0242.101 ĕv'rē-hwâr'

iTrader: (16)

Garage List
I prefer 6MT but he is being a little harsh on the 'type' of guys that would opt for the DCT( or as Clarkson would say floppy paddles).
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 06:54 PM   #8
JonnyM3
Captain
JonnyM3's Avatar
231
Rep
905
Posts

Drives: Moderately Quick
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New York

iTrader: (1)

I gotta say, I drove stick from when I got my license (17) to when I was 22. Those 5 years I swore up and down that I'd never get a car I drove every day in any type of auto, BUT compared to my old STi and my old S5 the M3 manual was atrocious IMO. This guys just trying to be a hard ass, and sadly I agree with some of his points. If the manual was more rewarding to drive I'd have saved my 3k that I paid for the DCT and bought it, unfortunately it wasn't.
__________________
E90 ZCP Alpine White M3- Gone
F82 Azurite Black M4- Gone
2021 Jaguar F Type R- Current
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 06:57 PM   #9
radiantm3
Apex Everything!
radiantm3's Avatar
United_States
967
Rep
4,378
Posts

Drives: 2007 Honda S2000, 2017 GT350
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cedar Park, TX

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 E92 M3  [9.35]
2014 BMW i3  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudiS5 View Post
I gotta say, I drove stick from when I got my license (17) to when I was 22. Those 5 years I swore up and down that I'd never get a car I drove every day in any type of auto, BUT compared to my old STi and my old S5 the M3 manual was atrocious IMO. This guys just trying to be a hard ass, and sadly I agree with some of his points. If the manual was more rewarding to drive I'd have saved my 3k that I paid for the DCT and bought it, unfortunately it wasn't.
Sounds like you just don't have enough manual driving experience. The M3 shifter does just fine.
__________________
2011 E92 M3(Sold). 2007 Honda S2000 (Track Car). 2016 Cayman GT4 (Sold). 2017 Shelby GT350 (AKA Crowd Killer).

My pet project: https://stickershift.com
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 07:10 PM   #10
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1901
Rep
5,678
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
Imagine how focused and pure a drivers car the M3 would be today if it had NEVER been offered in automatic? Maybe a true evolution of the original E30 M3 as the video suggests.
Huh? Because BMW simply offers a DCT the car is somehow less of a focused and pure drivers car? That makes zero sense... I could understand your comment somewhat (although not totally) if no 6MT was offered at all. I guess Ferrari, Lambo and Bugatti do not make focused and pure driving cars.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 07:14 PM   #11
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1901
Rep
5,678
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Sounds like you just don't have enough manual driving experience. The M3 shifter does just fine.
I've driven 5MT and 6MT for 23 years (a total of 18 different cars over that time) and you are correct, the M3 shifter does just "fine". It isn't great by any means but is OK. I completely understand the comment from AudiS5 on why he was let down with the M3's current 6MT. IMO, it was the only less than great part of the car... it was good but just not up to snuff relative to the rest of the car. Having said that, it also wasn't bad enough that it would have stopped me from getting the 6MT and I thoroughly enjoyed that car while I had it.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 07:26 PM   #12
///M Ryder
Grown Azz Man
///M Ryder's Avatar
United_States
429
Rep
3,021
Posts

Drives: GT4
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (8)

Cute ...............Phil
__________________
2016 GT4.....Sapphire Blue Metallic, Platinum stitch Leather/Alcantara interior, Carbon Fiber Trim, PCM w/Nav, Guards Red Belts, 2 Zone Climate, Sport Chrono, LWB, Smokers Pack, Big Gas Tank, Light Design Pack, Bi-Xenon w/PDL, Auto Dim Mirror, Clear Side Markers, GTS Clear Taillights
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 07:33 PM   #13
I M STIG
RawAutos.com
I M STIG's Avatar
United_States
29
Rep
476
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 M3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Huh? Because BMW simply offers a DCT the car is somehow less of a focused and pure drivers car? That makes zero sense... I could understand your comment somewhat (although not totally) if no 6MT was offered at all. I guess Ferrari, Lambo and Bugatti do not make focused and pure driving cars.
The Bugatti isn't a pure driving car. The Lamborghinis are becoming more so than what they used to be, but Ferrari is starting to lose some of the points of pure driving pleasure.

You see, people tend to use their sports/super cars more and more each day, so they wanted them to be easier to drive and do their daily stuff without losing much of the fun-ness. So yes, an M3, any Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. can still be fun with DCT or automatic trannies. However, you're missing the most important point of driving it: the actual driving part.

An M3 is fun with M-DCT or with a manual transmission, but it's not the same experience.
__________________

2009 E90 M3| Jerez Black | Extended Silver Novillo with Brushed Aluminum | 6MT | EDC | Premium Package II | Convenience Package | Enhanced Premium Sound | HD Radio | Heated front seats | Fold down rear seats | Moonroof | 19" wheels |
RawAutos.com
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 07:46 PM   #14
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1901
Rep
5,678
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW2 View Post
The Bugatti isn't a pure driving car. The Lamborghinis are becoming more so than what they used to be, but Ferrari is starting to lose some of the points of pure driving pleasure.

You see, people tend to use their sports/super cars more and more each day, so they wanted them to be easier to drive and do their daily stuff without losing much of the fun-ness. So yes, an M3, any Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. can still be fun with DCT or automatic trannies. However, you're missing the most important point of driving it: the actual driving part.

An M3 is fun with M-DCT or with a manual transmission, but it's not the same experience.
Couple of comments...

If you think Ferrari has "lost something" than I would ask how/why you say that. I don't recall anyone who has spent time in a 458 noting that it was less fun than a 360? Have you had the opportunity to spend significant time in a 360 and now a 458 or is your comment speculative because YOU prefer a 6MT?

Ferrari has commented that they use DCTs to improve performance NOT because they care about making a 458 DD friendly nor, would I bet, that any notable portion of their customer base use a 458 as a DD. If you think that Lambo or Ferrari now ONLY offer DCTs to make their cars more DD friendly then I suggest you might have had a few too many beer tonight

I have owned both trannys on the E92 M3 and can attest... with experience... that the both are just as fun, just as involving but, as you correctly state, just slightly different.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 08:18 PM   #15
templarklimek
templarklimek
United_States
141
Rep
868
Posts

Drives: 15' X6M, 12' R8 V10,
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Houston Texas

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 08:28 PM   #16
HBspeed
Lieutenant
HBspeed's Avatar
45
Rep
591
Posts

Drives: 05 M3, 00 Z3MC, Boxster Spyder
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Huh? Because BMW simply offers a DCT the car is somehow less of a focused and pure drivers car? That makes zero sense... I could understand your comment somewhat (although not totally) if no 6MT was offered at all. I guess Ferrari, Lambo and Bugatti do not make focused and pure driving cars.
It is less focused because once you offer the automatic transmission, the car is more accessible to those buying it purely for the status or reputation. What these people actually want is a luxury car that people will respect as a sports car, not an actual focused sports car.

Consequently the modern M3 is not designed for the same customer as the E30 M3 was, which is sad for people like me who wish it was still designed with the same philosophy as the E30.

BMW decided to make these compromises for profitability, not to create the best sports car.

This holds true to Ferrari, Lambo and Bugatti as well.

I have no problem with the M3 as it currently exists, so long as BMW builds an "actual" M3 in the spirit of the original as well. Right now that is the 1M. Sadly they still missed the mark on the 1M by offering a standard off the shelf engine unbecoming of a true E30 M3 successor or any M car for that matter... otherwise I would be driving one.

I owned a Z4M coupe before my current E46 M3 so I surely go after the most focused offerings BMW has presented. It was a great car, but not practical for daily use like a car with a real trunk and backseats.

Last edited by HBspeed; 06-20-2011 at 08:37 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 08:35 PM   #17
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1901
Rep
5,678
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
It is less focused because once you offer the automatic transmission, the car is more accessible to those buying it purely for the status or reputation. What these people actually want is a luxury car that people will respect as a sports car, not an actual focused sports car.

Consequently the modern M3 is not designed for the same customer as the E30 M3 was, which is sad for people like me who wish it was still designed with the same philosophy as the E30.
Well, let's agree to disagree overall.

IMO, the choice of transmission does NOT change the fact that a car is more or less sports focused. If the E30 M3 had a DCT, would it make it any less of a car? Have you driven a DCT for more than 10 minutes?

I do agree that E92 is not as focused as the E30 was but that is true of most cars today. Also, that lack of "focus" is NOT about transmission choice but rather the car overall... you know, 16 speakers, power everything, i-drive, sound deadening material, etc.

If you think DCT makes the car less "focused" then I think you are missing the point of DCT and are bringing your own personal biases into this... which, I guess is OK as our own bias is what drives our opinions on everything... like I said, let's just say we disagree.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 08:43 PM   #18
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
312
Rep
8,496
Posts

Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

luckily, BMW has just made a car you can get with a clutch pedal, it's called a M3.
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 08:43 PM   #19
HBspeed
Lieutenant
HBspeed's Avatar
45
Rep
591
Posts

Drives: 05 M3, 00 Z3MC, Boxster Spyder
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Well, let's agree to disagree overall.

IMO, the choice of transmission does NOT change the fact that a car is more or less sports focused. If the E30 M3 had a DCT, would it make it any less of a car? Have you driven a DCT for more than 10 minutes?

I do agree that E92 is not as focused as the E30 was but that is true of most cars today. Also, that lack of "focus" is NOT about transmission choice but rather the car overall... you know, 16 speakers, power everything, i-drive, sound deadening material, etc.

If you think DCT makes the car less "focused" then I think you are missing the point of DCT and are bringing your own personal biases into this... which, I guess is OK as our own bias is what drives our opinions on everything... like I said, let's just say we disagree.
I have nothing against DCT being offered.

It is the fact that it is offered at all changes how the car is designed and marketed that I don't like.

If BMW designed the car as if it were for enthusiasts only (manual transmission drivers generally), and then threw in DCT for those so inclined, the M3 would be a much better sports car than it is today.

Last edited by HBspeed; 06-20-2011 at 08:51 PM..
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 08:47 PM   #20
gthal
Major General
gthal's Avatar
Canada
1901
Rep
5,678
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
I have nothing against DCT being offered.

It is the fact that it is offered at all changes how the car is designed and marketed that I don't like.

If BMW designed the car as if it were for enthusiasts only (manual transmission drivers generally), and then threw in DCT for those so inclined, the M3 would be a much better sports car than it is today.
I agree with this.
__________________
2020 X3 M40i | Black | Current DD
2020 C8 Corvette | Z51 | Torch Red ... built and waiting for delivery
2016 M2 | Long Beach Blue | 6MT
2015 M4 | Austin Yellow | DCT
2012 MB C63AMG | 2011 E92 M3 | 2010 E92 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 08:48 PM   #21
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
312
Rep
8,496
Posts

Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

where can I get his t-shirt?
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2011, 08:51 PM   #22
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
312
Rep
8,496
Posts

Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

again, at the end of the day, I'm sure 100% of 1M owners will give their cars up in a blink for a M3.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST