Help Identifying This Ticking Sound

[erm324]

^I'm glad yours wasnt serious, but mine seems to become clear once the car gets warm and the oil thins out...its a common phenomenon for the engine to make the normal ticking sounds, but this sound (at least my car) is more metallic and clearly different from the usual noise.

[I LOVE MY M3]

Mathew & ERM324, I had the exact same noise from my engine. 2 months go by, car in the shop. BMW was very slow. BMW regional rep. got involved. Finally pulled the motor, main bearings worn badly, rod bearings great shape, 14k on motor. Just as I thought, worn bearings, I just knew it! Told you BMW. I took more photo's than a Kodak store. New crankshaft, main and rod bearings replaced, $14,800.00 later, (covered, no cost to me)...........we start the engine, same sound. Hmmm, was it the bearings? Don't really know, BMW gives up and orders a new engine from Germany, 1 more month goes by, $27,400.00 later (covered, no cost to me), over $34,700.00 total on the last repair, no more ticking. I'm happy but confused. . BMW never could explain it to me. It's now been one year, 6k on new motor, no issues. This M3 is my first BMW ever, I really like this car, but now I listen to every M3 I see. I wish you good luck, that ticking just drove me nuts! BMW took care of me, I hope they take care you guys!

[erm324]

^Wow is all I have to say - thank you for your input...I'm pretty sure the fix for this sound is a crank/main/rod bearing replacement, its undoubtedly being caused by something in the motor.

[MatthewDavid]

Hey guys, sorry for the late follow up to my original post. I took it into the dealer and they acknowledged the noise (hard not to). They had a regional tech (I believe) look at the motor and listen with a scope, but they couldn't pinpoint the exact spot of the noise. They told me to keep driving the car and to let them know if the sound got worse. It has gotten worse, in fact; it's much more frequent and noticeable, so I'll call my SA tomorrow. Additionally, the whine this motor has, which was already significantly louder than my last S65, is getting louder.

Regarding this...My sound isn't rhythmic. It's constant, but not consistent. Is how mine sounds a precursor to this video?

Originally Posted by Sales@Gintani.com

Sounds like a bottom end noise. Possible bearing failure, not to scare you guys but sounds very familiar to what we've experienced with these engines. Here is a video when it gets pretty bad.

[MatthewDavid]

Thanks for this, by the way. The noise is driving me CRAZY! And, it's embarrassing my +$70k car sounds cheap and broke-down. Call me superficial, but I don't want any of you guys rollin' up next to me and wondering why my car sounds terrible. Additionally, I'm actually genuinely concerned something might happen with the motor while I'm on the freeway and injure me or someone else. I had a fuel pump die in an Audi some years ago while on the freeway, and with no power - nothing - I barely got it to the side at a very busy time (I was in a very dangerous, life-endangering position on the side of the road where I couldn't even get out).

I paid a hell of a lot of money to be afraid of an otherwise high-end car.

Originally Posted by I LOVE MY M3

Mathew & ERM324, I had the exact same noise from my engine. 2 months go by, car in the shop. BMW was very slow. BMW regional rep. got involved. Finally pulled the motor, main bearings worn badly, rod bearings great shape, 14k on motor. Just as I thought, worn bearings, I just knew it! Told you BMW. I took more photo's than a Kodak store. New crankshaft, main and rod bearings replaced, $14,800.00 later, (covered, no cost to me)...........we start the engine, same sound. Hmmm, was it the bearings? Don't really know, BMW gives up and orders a new engine from Germany, 1 more month goes by, $27,400.00 later (covered, no cost to me), over $34,700.00 total on the last repair, no more ticking. I'm happy but confused. . BMW never could explain it to me. It's now been one year, 6k on new motor, no issues. This M3 is my first BMW ever, I really like this car, but now I listen to every M3 I see. I wish you good luck, that ticking just drove me nuts! BMW took care of me, I hope they take care you guys!

[erm324]

^Yep, sorry to hear. This is the third week my car has been at the dealer, PUMA case has been opened and regional rep is coming down. I wouldn't accept a simple "keep driving and see if it gets worse," if it was never there, and it is now, tell them to prove to you whats making the sound and then youll be content! If BMW tells me its not my motor, I'm fine with it as long as they show me with absolute certainty where it is coming from, but until then I don't want my car back until it sounds as it did the past two years before this sound came about.

[335i2007]

Did they ever figure out what the noise was from? I have a similar sound but yours sounds more metallic in the video than mine does. Also mine only does it when it is idling from initial start up in the morning, once it warms up it goes away but this is a new noise that was not present before, and my car has close to 80k on it.

[TeKNiC3]

Originally Posted by erm324

^Wow is all I have to say - thank you for your input...I'm pretty sure the fix for this sound is a crank/main/rod bearing replacement, its undoubtedly being caused by something in the motor.

BMW lemon lawed my gf's 2011 M3 because of this noise.

[erm324]

OP, BMW didnt address my issue - they recognized the sound but will not fix it unless something is substancially wrong. BMW told me to keep using it and see if it gets worse. I am done with pushing this car and dealing with the headaches, which is why I've decided to sell all of my engine modifications. When something happens (not if, but when) I dont have to go through the headache of returning to stock AGAIN to get it warrantied. Everyone is entitlted to their own opinions, and I know MANY people have called me crazy and claim its not engine related - but you know your own car best, and I know its not running right and the sound was never there. Its a shame - I am extremely dissappointed with how it all turned out.

[BPMSport]

Keep us updated OP. That noise would be unacceptable in my book. If the dealer told me to take my car with that noise and see if it "gets worse", I would be pursuing other avenues.

[alpine335i]

Originally Posted by erm324

OP, BMW didnt address my issue - they recognized the sound but will not fix it unless something is substancially wrong. BMW told me to keep using it and see if it gets worse. I am done with pushing this car and dealing with the headaches, which is why I've decided to sell all of my engine modifications. When something happens (not if, but when) I dont have to go through the headache of returning to stock AGAIN to get it warrantied. Everyone is entitlted to their own opinions, and I know MANY people have called me crazy and claim its not engine related - but you know your own car best, and I know its not running right and the sound was never there. Its a shame - I am extremely dissappointed with how it all turned out.

Ricky you should tell them ok and then go trade it back in and see what your salesman says.

[erm324]

They said if it was consistent 100% of the time they would have done something, but since it is intermittent and not always present it is not enough evidence for them to take progressive action and crack open the motor.

[Gatchaman]

Mine started about a week ago making this noise as well (2012 with 5600 miles). I got home from a drive and noticed it immediately. It's going to the dealer this coming Tuesday and will see what they have to say.

[Boxed]

Mine has been in the shop for the past 3 days and dealer still hasn't figured it out. my SA told me they were pulling the head apart today.

2011 with 21k miles.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by I LOVE MY M3

Mathew & ERM324, I had the exact same noise from my engine. 2 months go by, car in the shop. BMW was very slow. BMW regional rep. got involved. Finally pulled the motor, main bearings worn badly, rod bearings great shape, 14k on motor. Just as I thought, worn bearings, I just knew it! Told you BMW. I took more photo's than a Kodak store. New crankshaft, main and rod bearings replaced, $14,800.00 later, (covered, no cost to me)...........we start the engine, same sound. Hmmm, was it the bearings? Don't really know, BMW gives up and orders a new engine from Germany, 1 more month goes by, $27,400.00 later (covered, no cost to me), over $34,700.00 total on the last repair, no more ticking. I'm happy but confused. . BMW never could explain it to me. It's now been one year, 6k on new motor, no issues. This M3 is my first BMW ever, I really like this car, but now I listen to every M3 I see. I wish you good luck, that ticking just drove me nuts! BMW took care of me, I hope they take care you guys!

Most likely wasn't the bearings!

Please post or email me some of the bearing pictures you took, I would like to look at them and share them with one of the reliability engineers here at work!

P.S. sorry for being almost a month late to your thread post.

[I LOVE MY M3]

This a 2009 M3 with 14,000 miles. Notice from the rear the mains look pretty good. Then notice the front bearing, remember this is the block side. Next set will be the plate side.

[I LOVE MY M3]

Just the opposite wear. The crank did not appear to have ever touched the front bearing on the plate side.

[I LOVE MY M3]

Also notice in the previous post photos the rods are machined first then "cracked" in two parts, to form the rod and cap. Cool. Did not know that.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by I LOVE MY M3

This a 2009 M3 with 14,000 miles. Notice from the rear the mains look pretty good. Then notice the front bearing, remember this is the block side. Next set will be the plate side.

What the heck is going on with the S65? Is this the suspected bedplate deflection causing this? Any ideas?

I don't think these main bearing issues are a result of BMW's poor understanding of tribology but instead are a result of potential design issues in the block structure itself (i.e. seeing greater than expected deflection at extreme rpms that disrupts the bearing oil film? It wouldn't take much to make a significant problem rear its head). The natural attack is to blame the bearing/oil film/oil used/etc; however, I'm wondering if a much more significant issue is at the root of these problems...

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

What the heck is going on with the S65? Is this the suspected bedplate deflection causing this? Any ideas?

I don't think these main bearing issues are a result of BMW's poor understanding of tribology but instead are a result of potential design issues in the block structure itself (i.e. seeing greater than expected deflection at extreme rpms that disrupts the bearing oil film? It wouldn't take much to make a significant problem rear its head). The natural attack is to blame the bearing/oil film/oil used/etc; however, I'm wondering if a much more significant issue is at the root of these problems...

The issue is most likely the fact that the engines are assembled too tight, i.e.: The main bearing oil clearance is insufficient. I would highly doubt that there is a deflection issue since the bedplate looks to be a very robust and rigid piece...... Much more rigid than what individual main caps would be.

The bearings in the pictures, although worn, are not excessively worn and definitely would not be causing significant oil pressure loss and definitely not be causing the ticking noise that many people are claiming is main bearings. The top layer of babbit is not even completely worn through but is polished quite a bit. When bearings are excessively worn they show the copper/bronze layer and many times have quite a bit of grooving and or discolouration due to heat. The whole purpose of the babbit layer on a bearing is for it to be able to touch the journal and/or to absorb contamination and do no damage to the journal in the process.

Another thing that may indeed cause bearing wear to these engines (or any engine for that matter) is high load before the engine oil is up to temperature. In my personal vehicles, I never use high throttle openings or place high load on my engines before the oil is at operating temperature, especially my M3! Even after the variable redline allows you the full 8400RPM I don't feel the oil is yet warm enough, personally I like to see my oil at around 85-90 degrees Celcius (185-195 degrees Fahrenheit) before I attempt any high load or high RPM. Any engine of ours that is required to be started and put at full load immediately (Back-Up Power, Pumps, or Emergency Vehicles) have engine heaters on them that keep the fluids (oil and coolant) at operating temp 24/7

The engine in the pictures would have lasted a long time before having any issues, and quite frankly, that wear may have occurred early in it's life and no further wear would have likely occurred once the clearance it needed was achieved. Any

[m3an]

Originally Posted by I LOVE MY M3

Also notice in the previous post photos the rods are machined first then "cracked" in two parts, to form the rod and cap. Cool. Did not know that.

many cars use fractured caps now; it is inherently stronger

[erm324]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

The issue is most likely the fact that the engines are assembled too tight, i.e.: The main bearing oil clearance is insufficient. I would highly doubt that there is a deflection issue since the bedplate looks to be a very robust and rigid piece...... Much more rigid than what individual main caps would be.

The bearings in the pictures, although worn, are not excessively worn and definitely would not be causing significant oil pressure loss and definitely not be causing the ticking noise that many people are claiming is main bearings. The top layer of babbit is not even completely worn through but is polished quite a bit. When bearings are excessively worn they show the copper/bronze layer and many times have quite a bit of grooving and or discolouration due to heat. The whole purpose of the babbit layer on a bearing is for it to be able to touch the journal and/or to absorb contamination and do no damage to the journal in the process.

Another thing that may indeed cause bearing wear to these engines (or any engine for that matter) is high load before the engine oil is up to temperature. In my personal vehicles, I never use high throttle openings or place high load on my engines before the oil is at operating temperature, especially my M3! Even after the variable redline allows you the full 8400RPM I don't feel the oil is yet warm enough, personally I like to see my oil at around 85-90 degrees Celcius (185-195 degrees Fahrenheit) before I attempt any high load or high RPM. Any engine of ours that is required to be started and put at full load immediately (Back-Up Power, Pumps, or Emergency Vehicles) have engine heaters on them that keep the fluids (oil and coolant) at operating temp 24/7

The engine in the pictures would have lasted a long time before having any issues, and quite frankly, that wear may have occurred early in it's life and no further wear would have likely occurred once the clearance it needed was achieved. Any

Great post! Always love your inputs on stuff like this.

Anyways, my car never made a single sound up until a few months after I put the blower on. It got pretty noticeable a few months in, I just recently took the blower off and the sound is still present, but it seems to be very very faint (not as loud of a ticking). This is extremely weird, for if the ticking was a bearing issue wouldnt it make the same noise all the time in direct correlation with the crank? Could it be related to the stress on the motor as well? Meaning for example after doing 5 consecutive 60-130 pulls with 8lbs of boost in the motor it would tick alot louder than when I just drive around now naturally aspirated. At first when I got the car back I didnt hear any sounds so I thought the ticking had to do with the blower, but then the past few days I've been paying very close attention and the sound still is there, but nowhere near as loud or prominent. Does this make any sense? To me it doesn't, because a bearing on its way out would make the same noise all the time, but you obviously know alot more than me so I figured I'd ask..