2012 7-series - advice on offer

[persian54]

Originally Posted by highyo

Near irrelevant? or irrelevant? is there a huge difference?

lawyer, nes pas?

let me try to paraphrase for your bombast. the reason why you think it's irrelevant has more to do with what price you are actually working off. a good leaser (or his agent) works up from the INVOICE, not down from the MSRP. i can only assume, since what you are paying is truly remarkable (and nice work if actually true), that's what you meant.

wow you really came off your "near irrelevant" thing pretty fast btw. maybe edit?

Edit? non of my posts here are edited (as you can see, under the post it doesn't show it's been edited)

The way I see it, with leases, having a good residual and money factor are more important than the price of the car. I never said the price of the car isn't important, but even if a car is expensive, if the residual is high and the mf is low, it's possible to get a great lease deal.
Looking at it another way, even if the price of the car is low, if the residual and mf aren't favorable, your lease deal won't work out too great.

A good example is American cars. Now, I haven't looked at them in quite a while, but I remember a Crossfire and a 300C had lease payments near 700-800!! Now, this is a LONG time ago, but I was able to get a Mercedes C class for 400 per month, even though the actual price of the cars were very similar.


the residual and mf are set by bmw, and you can only lower the mf with MSDs, so unfortunately, this isn't really something you can negotiate with (that is, if the dealer isn't already giving you the lowest residual/mf).

and yes, when talking about price, then of course you work using the invoice, never MSRP.


If you wanted to lease an e93 M3 when they first came out, you were looking at $1200+/month
But I was able to get a car for close to $400 less per month, even though the PRICE of the car was the same. The price of a well equipped 2008/2009 M3 did not change much from the price of a well equipped 2011 m3.

I guess maybe you guys missed the point I was trying to make? I thought it was pretty clear


You can see the other e93 m3s in the FS section up for lease transfer and see how low their payments are, you can see my deal is similar to their deals.

[GOLFFRR]

OP feel free to shoot Ryan your quote he will tell you if its a good deal or not

[highyo]

Originally Posted by persian54

Edit? non of my posts here are edited (as you can see, under the post it doesn't show it's been edited)

The way I see it, with leases, having a good residual and money factor are more important than the price of the car. I never said the price of the car isn't important, but even if a car is expensive, if the residual is high and the mf is low, it's possible to get a great lease deal.
Looking at it another way, even if the price of the car is low, if the residual and mf aren't favorable, your lease deal won't work out too great.

A good example is American cars. Now, I haven't looked at them in quite a while, but I remember a Crossfire and a 300C had lease payments near 700-800!! Now, this is a LONG time ago, but I was able to get a Mercedes C class for 400 per month, even though the actual price of the cars were very similar.


the residual and mf are set by bmw, and you can only lower the mf with MSDs, so unfortunately, this isn't really something you can negotiate with (that is, if the dealer isn't already giving you the lowest residual/mf).

and yes, when talking about price, then of course you work using the invoice, never MSRP.


If you wanted to lease an e93 M3 when they first came out, you were looking at $1200+/month
But I was able to get a car for close to $400 less per month, even though the PRICE of the car was the same. The price of a well equipped 2008/2009 M3 did not change much from the price of a well equipped 2011 m3.

I guess maybe you guys missed the point I was trying to make? I thought it was pretty clear


You can see the other e93 m3s in the FS section up for lease transfer and see how low their payments are, you can see my deal is similar to their deals.

i have negotiated EVERY single part of my lease. including the MF, including the MSD, including the resid. the selling agents have a book they refer to, they sometimes start off that book amount. did you consult this book/print out? you can ask to see it i believe.

example, i got a 62% resid on my 2012 on order w/MSD and .00195 MF. that MF of course changes (and i get the benefit of a loyalty program if it should happen to show up in the next two months) and is NEGOTIABLE.

also, my resid started at 61. i had them bump it up to the book price, which is NEGOTIABLE.

and finally i found a guy to find a great price on a car. below invoice. that is perhaps the MOST important variable, given timing of LCI, end of model year (e90 --> f30 for example) etc etc. i bet the new 3 series is available (or will be soon) well under invoice.. cuz they want to get them out the door

i would now venture to say that MSRP/invoice is the MOST important and variable of all the inputs.

and it's ALL negotiable.

also i was suggesting maybe you edit your previous post saying it's near irrelevant, then the next one that comes way off that hyperbolic assertion. i think i typed past you.

[tico1028]

Lol, well this touched off a pretty big debate. I was able to get it down to almost $1k a month, so I'm happy. MSRP on the car ended up being $95k after I added a couple things to it.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by highyo

i have negotiated EVERY single part of my lease. including the MF, including the MSD, including the resid. the selling agents have a book they refer to, they sometimes start off that book amount. did you consult this book/print out? you can ask to see it i believe.

example, i got a 62% resid on my 2012 on order w/MSD and .00195 MF. that MF of course changes (and i get the benefit of a loyalty program if it should happen to show up in the next two months) and is NEGOTIABLE.

also, my resid started at 61. i had them bump it up to the book price, which is NEGOTIABLE.

and finally i found a guy to find a great price on a car. below invoice. that is perhaps the MOST important variable, given timing of LCI, end of model year (e90 --> f30 for example) etc etc. i bet the new 3 series is available (or will be soon) well under invoice.. cuz they want to get them out the door

i would now venture to say that MSRP/invoice is the MOST important and variable of all the inputs.

and it's ALL negotiable.

also i was suggesting maybe you edit your previous post saying it's near irrelevant, then the next one that comes way off that hyperbolic assertion. i think i typed past you.

Whatever you say

I don't deal with salesman who want to negotiate so much and waste time.

Ryan, like jimmy above you said, gives everything to you straight.

Again, I never said price of the car isn't important, but in a lease, the mf and residual are more important

I was offered a new F30 335i at invoice, HOWEVER, the lease payments on it were very very similar to the lease payments on my Z4.
635/month F30, 1300 drive off (not including tire/wheel warranty)
650/month Z4, 1500 drive off. (this includes tire/wheel warranty)
the z4 had 10k higher price tag.
So, explain how then, since price is the MOST important factor in a lease, that my Z4 and the f30 are so similar in lease payments and drive off? (actually, factoring in the tire/wheel on the z4, I'd think they're pretty much identical)
I got my Z4 at 500 over invoice.

So, can you explain that please? I fail to see how the price is the most important factor in a lease. I really really want you to explain that to me

If you have to negotiate the mf and residual, than you weren't being given the absolute highest residual and absolutely lowest mf from the get go.
So yes, these are things you can negotiate on, but if you start off with the best, then there's no negotiation.

When I got my Z4, i was in and out of the dealer in under an hour, including the test drive.
When I got my M3, it took 2 hours cause they hadn't pre-prepped the car for me. but the dealing and signing of the paperwork took less than an hour.

Each car was my one and only trip to the dealer.

if you know what the residual and mf must be, then you are set. now, if the dealer is being difficult and won't automatically work with the best residual/mf, then either go elsewhere, or negotiate.
But I've personally (and fortunately) never had this issue.

Sorry you had to negotiate so much on your deal. Buying cars is meant to be fun and enjoyable, not stressful and difficult.

[half man half amazin]

Originally Posted by jphughan

This! The F10 5 Series has almost every option available on the 7 Series and it's supremely comfortable and luxurious to boot, so a loaded 5 would likely be much more enjoyable than a stripped 7 -- plus it would drive better. And it'd be faster if you got a 550 since it's the same engine.

THIS^^^ i leased my fully optioned out 550i for $500 less a month than my best friend leased his not so fully optioned 7. Its a no brainer and my 550 runs cirlces around his 750 and i have more bells and whitles, we both came from M3's, mine couoe his convertible (e93)

[dirplay2000]

$1100.00/month
zero down