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      09-02-2014, 08:15 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Today ISIS beheaded another American. An outrage, at best. And what is President's Obama's reaction? Has anyone seen a news report on Obama's reaction?
Nothing. I applaude the media for not releasing the video. Don't give these animals what they want...media attention.
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      09-02-2014, 08:38 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Today ISIS beheaded another American. An outrage, at best. And what is President's Obama's reaction? Has anyone seen a news report on Obama's reaction?
I'm sure he had a tee time.
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      09-02-2014, 09:11 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
The Nazi's put Armstrong on the moon? Uhhh... Dude... you need help you won't get from this forum.
That's right buddy, Wernher von Braun was chief rocket scientist for Hitler, he was captured/brought to the U.S and worked for NASA with his German rocket team which enabled Armstrong to land on the moon.
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      09-02-2014, 09:18 PM   #70
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Nothing. I applaude the media for not releasing the video. Don't give these animals what they want...media attention.
The video has been released somewhere, i've seen it.

Why do you guys suppose they edit these videos to not show the actual killing of these two men? They are using HD cameras, multiple cameras, multiple camera angles, pro/am level editing, etc...

Also, if you've ever seen a full on beheading, you'll see blood, lots of blood within the two swipes of the blade. The two ISIS videos show the executioner sawing at their throats 9 to 13 times before the video fades to black.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the ISIS didn't execute these two men, but i'm left curious as to why this slick editing and their lack of showing the actual killing. I would assume that the ISIS would want to incite as much fear and social disturbance as possible, which by my estimation would be achieved by showing the actual killing.
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      09-02-2014, 09:27 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by TS135i View Post
That's right buddy, Wernher von Braun was chief rocket scientist for Hitler, he was captured/brought to the U.S and worked for NASA with his German rocket team which enabled Armstrong to land on the moon.
While technically true, it did take only a short 24 years from the time he surrendered to the US to Armstrong landing on the moon. So while he was German by birth, Nazi by force, American maybe as lessor of all evils; it was largely US funding, research, and development that got Armstrong to the moon.

One might also argue that Von Braun's largest contribution to the project was getting Armstrong out of earth's atmosphere and orbit. Outside of that, lots of help was needed.
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      09-02-2014, 10:36 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
The video has been released somewhere, i've seen it.

Why do you guys suppose they edit these videos to not show the actual killing of these two men? They are using HD cameras, multiple cameras, multiple camera angles, pro/am level editing, etc...

Also, if you've ever seen a full on beheading, you'll see blood, lots of blood within the two swipes of the blade. The two ISIS videos show the executioner sawing at their throats 9 to 13 times before the video fades to black.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the ISIS didn't execute these two men, but i'm left curious as to why this slick editing and their lack of showing the actual killing. I would assume that the ISIS would want to incite as much fear and social disturbance as possible, which by my estimation would be achieved by showing the actual killing.
I thought the same thing, and someone on tv asked that exact question. As I understand it, showing the actual brutality and gore of the beheading may sway some countries that are still "on the fence" and produce a more focused international outrage than there already is. I don't think ISIS is quite ready for that. But even so, maybe this second beheading will finally wake up some of those countries that still have their heads in the sand.

As far as our response, I am very disappointed... Obama is such a non-factor on the world scene, it is repulsive. He should stay on the golf course for the rest of his term, as far as I'm concerned.
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      09-03-2014, 10:45 AM   #73
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I have been less than supportive of Obama throughout his 2 terms, but *MAYBE* he is actually getting some sound advice now.

Don't react to this, don't fuel the fire for more killing. Like with a bully, if he gets a reaction, he continues. Then all of a sudden we jump up and bloody their nose, and it stops.

I said *MAYBE*
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      09-03-2014, 11:33 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Today ISIS beheaded another American. An outrage, at best. And what is President's Obama's reaction? Has anyone seen a news report on Obama's reaction?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z1
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      09-03-2014, 11:38 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
I have been less than supportive of Obama throughout his 2 terms, but *MAYBE* he is actually getting some sound advice now.

Don't react to this, don't fuel the fire for more killing. Like with a bully, if he gets a reaction, he continues. Then all of a sudden we jump up and bloody their nose, and it stops.

I said *MAYBE*
This is an ideology you can't really fight in the conventional sense. You have to bring it to their level. Do what it states in the Quran, whatever will deny them the passage into their Jannah. Send them to Jahannam. Enough of this "politically correct" bullshit. It gets us NOWHERE.
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      09-03-2014, 08:55 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by GB-335xiCoupe View Post
This is an ideology you can't really fight in the conventional sense. You have to bring it to their level. Do what it states in the Quran, whatever will deny them the passage into their Jannah. Send them to Jahannam. Enough of this "politically correct" bullshit. It gets us NOWHERE.
But why even bring the Quran into this, you can't possibly think these fanatics have anything to do with Islam can you?
These cowards are moral atheists under the guise of religious fervor. Don't fall for it.

I find this post to be offensive to the billion plus practicing Muslims who are peaceful and normal. Jannah and Jahannam have very finite meaning to Muslims (myself included), so I really don’t appreciate you using it as a political slogan.

This situation is akin to the Italian mafia, who in their glory days had what? 5000 members, yet they managed to smear an entire race and ethnicity. This is no different.

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      09-03-2014, 09:34 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by fecurtis
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Today ISIS beheaded another American. An outrage, at best. And what is President's Obama's reaction? Has anyone seen a news report on Obama's reaction?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z1
Wow - he really gave them a stern talking-to!
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      09-03-2014, 10:06 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devant View Post
But why even bring the Quran into this, you can't possibly think these fanatics have anything to do with Islam can you?
These cowards are moral atheists under the guise of religious fervor. Don't fall for it.

I find this post to be offensive to the billion plus practicing Muslims who are peaceful and normal. Jannah and Jahannam have very finite meaning to Muslims (myself included), so I really don’t appreciate you using it as a political slogan.

This situation is akin to the Italian mafia, who in their glory days had what? 5000 members, yet they managed to smear an entire race and ethnicity. This is no different.
It is not my intent to offend all Muslims. I am talking about ISIS. If these few "fanatics" as you call them are so few, then why doesn't the Muslim community force them out? Surely if they are so few, they can be overpowered and ousted. Instead, they hide amongst the peaceful, and the Muslims as a whole allow them to hide as cowards?

I understand what you are saying, and I certainly don't hate Muslims as a whole. I do hate the extremists Islamics, who have declared holy war on me, just because I am not a Muslim. This I find offensive. I have the right to believe or not believe whatever I want, and not expect some idiot to try and behead me or blow up my family, just because I don't believe in the same religion he does.

You don't see fanatic Christians out slaughtering non-Christian children and beheading non-Christian journalists on Youtube. They may disagree with the Muslim faith. They may not believe in the teachings of the Quran, but they are tolerant of others who believe it. Why must extremists Islamics be so intolerant of all other religions, that they think they must kill them? You may call it religion, I call it genocide.

I don't know if relating these thugs to the Italian mafia is vis-a-vis. The mafia was fanatic, that's for sure, but they were in it for the business. They may have been killers, but they selected certain individuals for power or business gains. They didn't kill indiscriminately and they didn't kill innocents (unless collateral). You don't hear about homicide bombings from the mafia. Mafia, or "familia" was a tight-knit group, with a sophisticated vetting and initiation, as well as a blood line. There was a distinct goal, yet they also respected each other's factions. As I understand it, the Sunni sect is what most of the Islamic extremists are. And they believe that the other sects, although Muslim, are somewhat diluted or lesser, and are also considered enemies. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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      09-03-2014, 10:18 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by GB-335xiCoupe View Post
It is not my intent to offend all Muslims. I am talking about ISIS. If these few "fanatics" as you call them are so few, then why doesn't the Muslim community force them out? Surely if they are so few, they can be overpowered and ousted. Instead, they hide amongst the peaceful, and the Muslims as a whole allow them to hide as cowards?

I understand what you are saying, and I certainly don't hate Muslims as a whole. I do hate the extremists Islamics, who have declared holy war on me, just because I am not a Muslim. This I find offensive. I have the right to believe or not believe whatever I want, and not expect some idiot to try and behead me or blow up my family, just because I don't believe in the same religion he does.

You don't see fanatic Christians out slaughtering non-Christian children and beheading non-Christian journalists on Youtube. They may disagree with the Muslim faith. They may not believe in the teachings of the Quran, but they are tolerant of others who believe it. Why must extremists Islamics be so intolerant of all other religions, that they think they must kill them? You may call it religion, I call it genocide.

I don't know if relating these thugs to the Italian mafia is vis-a-vis. The mafia was fanatic, that's for sure, but they were in it for the business. They may have been killers, but they selected certain individuals for power or business gains. They didn't kill indiscriminately and they didn't kill innocents (unless collateral). You don't hear about homicide bombings from the mafia. Mafia, or "familia" was a tight-knit group, with a sophisticated vetting and initiation, as well as a blood line. There was a distinct goal, yet they also respected each other's factions. As I understand it, the Sunni sect is what most of the Islamic extremists are. And they believe that the other sects, although Muslim, are somewhat diluted or lesser, and are also considered enemies. Correct me if I'm wrong.
To answer you plainly they have the weapons, they have the funding. Who’s going to stand up to them? The piss poor local villages who can’t even feed themselves? They are just as brutal to the local people (off camera of course) So what do we do?

I said in an earlier post on this thread that these fanatics are living in the 15th century and I meant it. If you had Christians groups living with the same 15th century mentality they'd be chopping people's heads off too. (Ever heard of the Crusades) . As for Sunni/Shia both have their radical factions. In the 80s it was the Shia in Iran..Any how don't want to really take this way off topic.

Today’s editorial in the Post makes a good point about Obama saying that he’s stuck in the middle. Willing to do just enough not to look weak, yet not willing to go far enough to finish the job. But then how do you fight ideals with bullets? There is no easy answer to any of these questions. The one thing I hope people have learned after so many years of this, is to differentiate these sub humans from the rest of Muslims. Unfortunately that is easier said than done.
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      09-03-2014, 10:45 PM   #80
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To answer you plainly they have the weapons, they have the funding. Who’s going to stand up to them? The piss poor local villages who can’t even feed themselves? They are just as brutal to the local people (off camera of course) So what do we do?

I said in an earlier post on this thread that these fanatics are living in the 15th century and I meant it. If you had Christians groups living with the same 15th century mentality they'd be chopping people's heads off too. (Ever heard of the Crusades) . As for Sunni/Shia both have their radical factions. In the 80s it was the Shia in Iran..Any how don't want to really take this way off topic.

Today’s editorial in the Post makes a good point about Obama saying that he’s stuck in the middle. Willing to do just enough not to look weak, yet not willing to go far enough to finish the job. But then how do you fight ideals with bullets? There is no easy answer to any of these questions. The one thing I hope people have learned after so many years of this, is to differentiate these sub humans from the rest of Muslims. Unfortunately that is easier said than done.
Yes, I see your points. And the 15th century Crusades, OK. That was Church-driven which at the time, also had a very strong tie with the ruling class. I am not a religious person. I see many religions as a means of controlling the masses. I also see religion being at the root of many wars and conflicts in human history. At least in the past, I think this was more the case.

So as far as defeating ISIS, wouldn't some kind of infiltration work?

And a prognosticatory question: What do you think would happen if an ISIS attack happened on US soil?
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      09-03-2014, 10:57 PM   #81
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Yes, I see your points. And the 15th century Crusades, OK. That was Church-driven which at the time, also had a very strong tie with the ruling class. I am not a religious person. I see many religions as a means of controlling the masses. I also see religion being at the root of many wars and conflicts in human history. At least in the past, I think this was more the case.

So as far as defeating ISIS, wouldn't some kind of infiltration work?

And a prognosticatory question: What do you think would happen if an ISIS attack happened on US soil?
I would say that there is a hierarchy of leadership that some sort of secret Ops would have to infiltrate to really take them down, but that could take (months/ years)?

Bottom line is If you have a group brazen enough to behead citizens of the biggest power in the world, than deserves some meaningful answer , (bombing the shit out of them). The only sad part about that option besides being less effective is that it also cause collateral damage of innocents, which then perpetuates anti Western sentiment and more violence, it’s a vicious cycle.
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      09-03-2014, 11:07 PM   #82
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I would say that there is a hierarchy of leadership that some sort of secret Ops would have to infiltrate to really take them down, but that could take (months/ years)?

Bottom line is If you have a group brazen enough to behead citizens of the biggest power in the world, than deserves some meaningful answer , (bombing the shit out of them). The only sad part about that option besides being less effective is that it also cause collateral damage of innocents, which then perpetuates anti Western sentiment and more violence, it’s a vicious cycle.
Agreed on the collateral, so just use a nuke and get it done, right? But we can't because we are "civilized" and "politically correct". Back in the days of WWII, we'd do it. How many innocents will have to die instead? I mean if ISIS gets what they want, they will rule the world. If it gets that bad, won't we wish we could come back to today and have just done just that? I see this as a cancer that is spreading, and spreading fast. Maybe (I hope) the scope of it is much smaller than the media portrays it...
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      09-03-2014, 11:11 PM   #83
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Agreed on the collateral, so just use a nuke and get it done, right? But we can't because we are "civilized" and "politically correct". Back in the days of WWII, we'd do it. How many innocents will have to die instead? I mean if ISIS gets what they want, they will rule the world. If it gets that bad, won't we wish we could come back to today and have just done just that? I see this as a cancer that is spreading, and spreading fast.
I guess we'll see. It's their 15 minutes.
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      09-03-2014, 11:26 PM   #84
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I guess we'll see. It's their 15 minutes.
Let's hope it's only 15 minutes. I appreciate your insight on this.
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      09-04-2014, 11:11 AM   #85
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Wow - he really gave them a stern talking-to!
Just answering your question. What'd you expect him to do? A statement is just that, a statement.

He just needs to back them up with an actual strategy.

I will say that he seems to be doing something right in getting the Sunni Muslim states to help in the fight against ISIS. It seems like a rational idea to paint ISIS as the aggressor in an inter-religious war against Sunni and Shiites. That'd go a long way in shrinking their influence.

The most frustrating thing is the caution and time the administration is taking to formulate a solid plan. Hope all that planning yields a favorable result. But if his recent forays into highly controversial international policy is of any indication, I'm not too optimistic.
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      09-04-2014, 11:29 AM   #86
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ISIS is all about ideology/culture. The West must stay out of it because involvement becomes a recruitment tool.

The Arab countries must start carrying their own water as the U.S. has been doing it for too long (Think 1950's). In addition the Arabs must stop playing both sides. We really need to light a fire under their assets.
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      09-04-2014, 12:22 PM   #87
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ISIS is all about ideology/culture. The West must stay out of it because involvement becomes a recruitment tool.

The Arab countries must start carrying their own water as the U.S. has been doing it for too long (Think 1950's). In addition the Arabs must stop playing both sides. We really need to light a fire under their assets.
And we'd let them...they're unfortunately natural resources rich.

Don't see us going in guns blazing in NK do you?
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      09-04-2014, 12:27 PM   #88
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And we'd let them...they're unfortunately natural resources rich.

Don't see us going in guns blazing in NK do you?
NK isn't invading neighboring countries nor did they orchestrate a massive terrorist attack on US soil.
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