Is Audi becoming a big threat for 3 series? (New A4, A5, S5)

[JamieA]

I know competition makes for strange bed fellows... but Mercedes Benz and BMW merging would be an out there proposition given the egos at play in both companies... it will be interesting to see how far this cooperation does go.

As for other out-there mergers, how about GM and Ford - they are both hemorrhaging money - it could be their last chance against the might of Toyota

[simp0man]

Originally Posted by JamieA

I know competition makes for strange bed fellows... but Mercedes Benz and BMW merging would be an out there proposition given the egos at play in both companies... it will be interesting to see how far this cooperation does go.

As for other out-there mergers, how about GM and Ford - they are both hemorrhaging money - it could be their last chance against the might of Toyota

American car co. combine forces to do battle the Japanese co.

[JamieA]

I know, the blind leading the blind

[mwahlert]

the 335i is hard to beat - its fast, it handles well, its good looking, its reasonably priced for what you get, its good on fuel (i average 22.4, try THAT in a s5)

[just4kickz]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

Diesel.

well some of them aren't diesel and they can only go up to like 6250k... i like high reving cars

[ianbiz]

Yes.
Hopefully, the fake BMW owners will move on.

[Tondtar]

Originally Posted by JamieA

I know ....

As for other out-there mergers, how about GM and Ford - they are both hemorrhaging money - it could be their last chance against the might of Toyota

And to see what kind of shi*ier car they can make together as one

[The_Blob]

Audis are still VWs. BMWs are always BMWs.

[TheAcAvenger]

Originally Posted by The_Blob

Audis are still VWs. BMWs are always BMWs.

Audi's are lamborghini's and bugattis...
BMW's are mini coopers and isettas

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by just4kickz

well some of them aren't diesel and they can only go up to like 6250k... i like high reving cars

Most modern Audi petrol engines have a redline of at least 6500rpm. The S5 limits at 7k, and the RS4 hits like 8200 or something. I like high reving cars too, and I think 6500 is a decent number.

What's funny is stepping in a previous-gen Stang GT, and seeing a redline of 5800rpm.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by The_Blob

Audis are still VWs. BMWs are always BMWs.

Yeah, fucking nice VWs.

[keanu1]

Originally Posted by StarrDlux

dude the A5/S5 makes the bmw smoke pole? why? how many 3'ers you see on the road? when was the last time you saw S5 rolling down the road? by an owner not a test-drive

even a all-black A5 is the hotness.

The new S' will have that 300-odd horsepower v-6 supercharged motor to combat the turbo so it will be interesting. you know folks will be putting pulleys on those.

The interior on the A5 takes you back to the cockpit of the E46 wrap around -bad-ass-

The A4 ehh doesn't do it for me. i'd rather stick to the 335i. i'm sorry but on 360 view the A5/S5 just walks all over anything bmw has and once you set inside its a whole nother story.

ever fishtale your 335i? in rain? in snow? that just doesn't exist with quattro. i have to actually pay attention when gunning it in the rain around a corner now. with my old A4 it was pedal to the metal even in rain - go as fast as possible and no worries.

dont get me wrong i like the bimmer but the A5 brought sexy back for audi. bmw has no comparable. now when i see the S4 Avant that might bring sexy back to audi on that front.

that's bulshit!! I saw a tv show comparing the a5 30 tdi and e92 330xd and the bmw x drive was much better!!
the say audi was not very controlable on the snow because she was dancing all over the road like a drunk man!
Audi it' s a veru good car, just in design .

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by JamieA

There is already an ex-senior Audi designer working for Bangle... That Dutch one, can't remember his name right now, but I am sure someone out there will know who I am talking about.

The best thing Audi did for the A4 was put in on the MDS platform and disengage it from the Passatt (ie Golf) platform, this means that they could get really serious about challenging BMW, but they can't because while the MDS platform is a step in the right direction it still had problems -

1. Weight distribution is still an absolute disaster, just less so than it was with the lead tipped arrow feel of the B6/B7 A4, and A6 et al.

2. The platform is still front wheel drive. Rear biased quattro is as good as it gets, and even that still has FWD handling characteristics when push comes to shove.

Audi have a long way to go before the A4 can truly be considered a BMW rival in the purest sense, and they know it. MDS is a work in progress, something put out to market to monetise the R&D they are doing. It isn't the B8 A4 BMW should worry about, it is the B9 or B10 (or whatever it will be called BA?). Those iterations will include better more refined platforms. But by then BMW will have moved on themselves.
......[clipped for brevity]

Certainly you don't mean van Hooydonk, do you? I don't believe he ever worked at Audi.

Good post with a lot of practical observations. It's too often that dialogue about car x versus car y only results in knee jerk responses and emotional diatribe. You have some solid points.

[TheAcAvenger]

The sad fact is that if you look from E36 to E46 to E9x, the 3 becomes less and less sporty. Heavier. More luxury oriented. More practical.

Over the past 8 years Audi has been working hard to become sportier and sportier, more weight conscious, retaining their luxury, blurring the lines of practicality and temptation.

Unless BMW ceases this downward spiral toward "ordinary", the two will eventually meet somewhere in the middle

[mrad01]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

The sad fact is that if you look from E36 to E46 to E9x, the 3 becomes less and less sporty. Heavier. More luxury oriented. More practical.

Over the past 8 years Audi has been working hard to become sportier and sportier, more weight conscious, retaining their luxury, blurring the lines of practicality and temptation.

Unless BMW ceases this downward spiral toward "ordinary", the two will eventually meet somewhere in the middle

Disagree.

Get your fastest, meanest e36 - and your fastest, meanest e46 - and I suspect my 335i will outperform it....

[BTW: If you answer with the obvious "clever" answer of "e46 M3" - I suspect the e90 M3 will kick that off the planet too.]

Audi/VW still don't know how to build a premium handling car. I've driven Audi/VWs hard - they get worse as you push them harder. BMWs get better the harder you push.

One day they will get there. If BMW stand still...

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

Certainly you don't mean van Hooydonk, do you? I don't believe he ever worked at Audi.

Good post with a lot of practical observations. It's too often that dialogue about car x versus car y only results in knee jerk responses and emotional diatribe. You have some solid points.

That's the one - he did Audi interiors I am sure... ready to be prooved wrong and flamed to a crisp through

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by TheAcAvenger

Audi's are lamborghini's and bugattis...
BMW's are mini coopers and isettas

It seems that more and more Bentleys, Bugattis and Lambos are VW Phaetons and Audi A8's... so many Audi A8 bits from the parts bin are showing up everywhere. The VW group aims to build all future cars off only 4 platforms...


So I agree with the other poster a BMW is a BMW and nothing else - the pedigree is undiluted.

As for the mini cooper comment - the Mini is off a Front Wheel Drive platform, the engines are from PSA, so I don't see the connection as BMW build their own engines and all BMW brand platforms are real wheel drive. Only some electronics and switchgear is shared, this is OK, it makes BMWs cheaper and the direction is down the chain, not up the chain as VW group tend to do.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by mrad01

...
Audi/VW still don't know how to build a premium handling car. I've driven Audi/VWs hard - they get worse as you push them harder. BMWs get better the harder you push.

One day they will get there. If BMW stand still...

+1

[footie]

Originally Posted by The_Blob

Audis are still VWs. BMWs are always BMWs.

A comment like this are similar to saying a Boxster is a poor man's 911. It only shows you up as bitter.

Maybe you need reminder of where the present BMW started.....

http://www.autocult.com.au/NewsDetail.aspx?id=1104

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by footie

A comment like this are similar to saying a Boxster is a poor man's 911. It only shows you up as bitter.

Maybe you need reminder of where the present BMW started.....

http://www.autocult.com.au/NewsDetail.aspx?id=1104

No I don't see it that way at all. A Boxter and a 911 are both a Porsche and share varying expressions of that DNA. Your example is perhaps not the best to have chosen...

A BMW has BMW DNA and no other.

Audi/VW/Seat/Skoda/Bentley/et al... share a parts bin

I see the comment as highlighting the purity of the DNA, the purpose and the experience, not putting relativity to it. The VW group platform-sharing model is fine if you want to drive down cost - which they need to badly. But it isn't fine if you are pursuing a goal of building something more focused as BMW does.

BMW and VW in reality target different markets. VW Group use the "sporty" tag to air-brush their brand. Before sporty it was "interior quality", and in between was "affordable luxury".

BMW live it.

If VW were as focused on performance and "sporty" driving as they say they would have immediately started a massive all-out engineering campaign to adopt rear wheel drive in their Audi brand. But they haven't they have simply added rear-wheel bias in Audi's quattro platform. The MDS platform should have been clean sheet, not a tart-up of the same platform they have been fiddling with for several generations. This betrays their true intent - they want to love themselves a bit of BMW's brand cachet. Before BMW it was Mercedes they were targeting, and hell even Mercedes is trying to have a bit of BMW halo on their C Class.

So IMHO it isn't a put-down of a bitter person, it is a plain and simple statement of fact. There's a difference.

[herbz]

reasons why BMW is better than Audi:

1) Audi still makes heavier cars than comparable BMW models (see RS4 vs. E46 M3, 335i vs. S5, etc).
2) Audi's cars are still nose heavy compared to BMW's balanced weight distribution.
3) Audi's typically use V6s, V8's, while BMW is world renowned for its silky smooth I6 which now comes as naturally aspirated or twin turbocharged.
4) Audi is still owned by VW, and cheap VW's are now getting interior and exterior parts straight off Audi's which cost twice as much. Think your cool LED headlights on your $60k S5 are exclusive? Wait 'till they are on every Passat and Jetta driving around town. BMW is BMW, not anything else.
5) I'd go on a limb and say that BMW makes a better suspension, uses a better gearbox, typically has a better engine than any comparible Audi model.
6) Audi STILL makes FWD cars.... in fact that is their volume seller. did BMW ever make a FWD car? Don't think so.

Reasons why Audi is better than BMW:
1) Better interior
2) Better exterior
3) All wheel drive

That's really all I can think of.

[TSM330i]

If you want to wear a tux, buy the Audi.

If you want to wear a track suite, buy the BMW.

The Audi's are gorgeous car for sure. They're still weight biased to the front and will have an issue with balance.