BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-28-2011, 06:44 AM   #23
BMW269
Brigadier General
No_Country
346
Rep
3,897
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

M3 has always been my favorite car (normal car). I have no hate for the GT-R, on the contrary I love it. I just don't understand why so many compare the M3 to GT-R and 911 which are real sportscars. M3 is the best but cannot campare to a supercar which was specially built for that purpose and is not just a rebuilt mass production car.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 07:46 AM   #24
Voltigeur
MacroRisk
Voltigeur's Avatar
Australia
46
Rep
2,523
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 ED'09 / 335d Sport DD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
There are to many M3 driver going over to the GT-R. Look how any GT-R threads there are. I hope the new M3/M4 F8X with FI is going to be as beasty as the GT-R.
It won't be: different market niche. In fact, these cars should not be compared. A GT-R's comp is more 911 Turbo.
__________________

Just thinking of something not so witty
///M3 E92 '09 Jerez Black | 6MT | Ext Fox Red | Tech | Prem | 19s |Heated Seats | iPod |Smartphone | Euro Deliv June 09
Sold: 540iT / 530i / 323i
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 07:47 AM   #25
Voltigeur
MacroRisk
Voltigeur's Avatar
Australia
46
Rep
2,523
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 ED'09 / 335d Sport DD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
M3 has always been my favorite car (normal car). I have no hate for the GT-R, on the contrary I love it. I just don't understand why so many compare the M3 to GT-R and 911 which are real sportscars. M3 is the best but cannot campare to a supercar which was specially built for that purpose and is not just a rebuilt mass production car.
Bingo.
__________________

Just thinking of something not so witty
///M3 E92 '09 Jerez Black | 6MT | Ext Fox Red | Tech | Prem | 19s |Heated Seats | iPod |Smartphone | Euro Deliv June 09
Sold: 540iT / 530i / 323i
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 09:20 AM   #26
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
429
Rep
7,784
Posts

Drives: F25 2.8dF82 M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

I really do not understand why there is the comparsion between the M3 & GTR when there is $30000(In Canada)difference in price.I drove a GTR when they 1st came out and figured out pretty quickly it was not a car that I could live with thanks to the Pinball arcade dash & unfriendly low speed ride & daily driver manners.If I was looking in this price range of car there would be a 911 in my garage before a GTR.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 09:38 AM   #27
devo
Colonel
76
Rep
2,059
Posts

Drives: 18 GT3 March/18 M2
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
As would I but for the price, the GT-R is second to none. Yes, the GT-R is ugly. Yes, the GT-R is heavy. Yes, it's big. Yes, the interior could use some better materials. The point of the GT-R is to go fast blistering fast. It's not for everyone. The noisy diff, the clanking gearbox, all make it what it is. Ot's 1/3 of the price of a 997 turbo and it hangs pretty nicely with one. You gatta give credit where credit is due.
can't argue with much of what you posted, but a GTR is more than 1/3rd the price of a 997 turbo. It is more than half, closer to 2/3rd. But 1/3rd, let us not get too carried away here, .

Last edited by devo; 11-29-2011 at 06:51 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 11:54 AM   #28
Erhan
Colonel
Erhan's Avatar
United_States
48
Rep
2,466
Posts

Drives: Cooper S
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

+1. It looks like a glitch. I don't think it is a steady cornering G.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
No question the GTRs are a very fast car but I am having a very hard time believing the G numbers that they are bandying about here.A production based racecar without big aero aids on slicks is very pressed to see much over 1.5-1.7 g's in steady state cornering on unbanked corners.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 12:06 PM   #29
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
429
Rep
7,784
Posts

Drives: F25 2.8dF82 M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
+1. It looks like a glitch. I don't think it is a steady cornering G.
I do know that in my M3 that I see peaks of 1.3 in both braking & cornering and I have been with GTRs on track and they are not that much faster in cornering speed.I have seen telemetry from our Canadian Touring car Series and you do see much over 1.6 g's and they are 350 horse,2400 lbs,aero and on slicks.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 02:01 PM   #30
stylinexpat
Major
stylinexpat's Avatar
210
Rep
1,186
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2008

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I do know that in my M3 that I see peaks of 1.3 in both braking & cornering and I have been with GTRs on track and they are not that much faster in cornering speed.I have seen telemetry from our Canadian Touring car Series and you do see much over 1.6 g's and they are 350 horse,2400 lbs,aero and on slicks.
1.3 in an M3 is quite good. I did not think our M3 could get up to 1.3 but when I saw 2.8 for the new 2013 GTR I was like WTF??
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 02:09 PM   #31
Kyoshi71
Colonel
Kyoshi71's Avatar
49
Rep
2,532
Posts

Drives: 2010 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
The other big question is whether the track package will even be available here in North America and how much difference in performance will the car be that we receive here in North America.
TRACK Package? SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...You can't say "TRACK"... Nissan will void your warranty.
__________________
"But resist we much; we must; and we will much; about that be committed."
~Rev. Al Sharpton


2010 E92 M3|Silverstone II|M-DCT|NCSW|2MT|ZCW|ZPP|ZTP|302|507|Gas Guzzler Tax
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 02:33 PM   #32
M3 Montreal
Colonel
43
Rep
2,194
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 SG ,DCT & 2011 S4
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal , Canada

iTrader: (0)

[quote=Gearhead999s;10880015]I really do not understand why there is the comparsion between the M3
__________________
2012 E92-M3 Space Grey on Fox Red, DCT

2011 B8 S4 S-Tronic , Black on magma red
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 02:40 PM   #33
Nine
Banned
46
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Not ZCP, FML.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DC, Miami, NYC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
TRACK Package? SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...You can't say "TRACK"... Nissan will void your warranty.

I wonder how that will be phrased in the warranty contract. I'd imagine warranty service, parts and other post purchase costs are where Nissan is recouping the cost of R&D of the GT-R, but to pick up the liability on track day exposures...from a business standpoint I'm just not sure how they are financing this car, especially considering it's not in Sales.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 02:43 PM   #34
M3 Montreal
Colonel
43
Rep
2,194
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 SG ,DCT & 2011 S4
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal , Canada

iTrader: (0)

Ugh... I hate the app for this website. If you quote a thread and write up something it oftentimes loses what you posted and just puts in the quote!!!

As far as pricing te GTR doesn't really have many options. You're comparing the M3 starting at 71k in Canada vs a GTR at 100k. The GTR doesn't have many options. My buddy bought a new one and the only option was the silver paint (something like 15 coats) which was 5 or 6k but they didn't charge him for it. Total cost was 99k. Most M3's in caanada leave the lot at somewhere around 85k so it's only 15k.

At least the GTR is a 2 2 and way more spacious than the 911 hence why I think it does justify being in the vs thread.

In my opinion the GTR deserves to be in the va thread over the Cayman which is a 2 seater. Or any vs thread that is a 2 seater.

There's a reason why so many are flipping over to a GTR and a new model like the 2013 should justify a new thread. I don't feel like sifting through an older thread that doesn't relate to the current model.

I love my M3 and if I trusted the long term use/abuse of the GTR I would have flipped to one myself. Hell I've already hit the price range of angtr with my mods anyways...
__________________
2012 E92-M3 Space Grey on Fox Red, DCT

2011 B8 S4 S-Tronic , Black on magma red
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 03:02 PM   #35
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
429
Rep
7,784
Posts

Drives: F25 2.8dF82 M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
Ugh... I hate the app for this website. If you quote a thread and write up something it oftentimes loses what you posted and just puts in the quote!!!

As far as pricing te GTR doesn't really have many options. You're comparing the M3 starting at 71k in Canada vs a GTR at 100k. The GTR doesn't have many options. My buddy bought a new one and the only option was the silver paint (something like 15 coats) which was 5 or 6k but they didn't charge him for it. Total cost was 99k. Most M3's in caanada leave the lot at somewhere around 85k so it's only 15k.

At least the GTR is a 2 2 and way more spacious than the 911 hence why I think it does justify being in the vs thread.

In my opinion the GTR deserves to be in the va thread over the Cayman which is a 2 seater. Or any vs thread that is a 2 seater.

There's a reason why so many are flipping over to a GTR and a new model like the 2013 should justify a new thread. I don't feel like sifting through an older thread that doesn't relate to the current model.

I love my M3 and if I trusted the long term use/abuse of the GTR I would have flipped to one myself. Hell I've already hit the price range of angtr with my mods anyways...
A 2012 lists in Canada for $115300 with the paint & dealer cost is $107427 according to my dealer cost info which is $30000 more than a properly equipped 2012 E92 M3.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 03:08 PM   #36
Gearhead999s
Major General
Gearhead999s's Avatar
429
Rep
7,784
Posts

Drives: F25 2.8dF82 M4 R1200GS
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
TRACK Package? SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...You can't say "TRACK"... Nissan will void your warranty.
From the GTR owners that track a lot that I have talked to at the track most have had some sort of driveline issue and tell me that to follow the Nissan recommended services if tracked is just insane compared to our M3's or a 911.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 04:16 PM   #37
mattixxg
MKIV
1
Rep
116
Posts

Drives: 4 wheels
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The track

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
Oh, another GT-R thread.
Yup. You better run..

Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
Take this shit to NAGTROC.

Moderators -- this is the "vs M3" section. Will you please do what you are supposed to do and monitor. This isn't a comparison vs the M3......... and even if it was there are more than enough GTR threads in this section AND OTHERS already.
Ive seen quite a few comparos in here, price, performance...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
I'd have to agree on the relevance, I could fill this forum with Porsche and Chevy news as well, I'm not sure how it relates to the M3



Don't get your hopes up The M3 and GT-R are not direct competitors, I would actually say that BMW does not make a car that competes with the GT-R, or rather created to compete with the GT-R.

The M4 will likely continue to be what the M3 is now, a great all around car, not a hot lap production race car. You can see BMW focusing on things like APPS, whereas Nissan is working on different tires, diffs and brakes. I wonder how draining ($)it is on Nissan to support their GT-R R&D, for BMW it's all about whether or not they want to invest in entering the super car war the way Chevy, Ford, Lexus, Porsche have.
Same as any other company....its not like theyre going to go broke dude. Nissan is a multi million dollar company, just like the others. Hell, toyota has their lfa---of which im still trying to figure out what they were trying to attempt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211 View Post
No jealousy here GTRboy. I test drove one when I sold my Vette. Could buy 5 of them if I wanted. Didn't like it. It's fast.............and big, and ugly, and noisey, and the most cluttered, piss poor designed interior I think I've ever seen. No thanks. I'd take a Porsche 997 Turbo over that thing all day, every day.
Dude, you sound like a 13 year old hater with that comment
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 04:26 PM   #38
adc
Major General
United_States
463
Rep
5,171
Posts

Drives: 2015 F80 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ateam View Post
Its a tough sell to make that the m3 offers anything over the GTR except for appearence and image. It basically is the ultimate all around car and is a completely easy car to drive around the city, has back seats and is beyond a track monster.
Not quite.

I can take my M3 to DC when I need to work there and even with the suspension in Comfort it is marginal in some places. A GT-R would be unusable as a DD depending on your commute. (And so would a 911 BTW).

As to the rear seats, I challenge any adult to fit in there with another adult in the front seat. I've actually tried it in my friend's car, just not possible. For such a big footprint, it is a very poorly packaged car. They shouldn't have bothered, period - the only reason they put those back seats is to make it a *direct* competitor to the 911, which is a little silly IMO.

My friend kept his for less than a year then sold it - it was too fast for weekend jaunts (cops/traffic), too harsh/unsuited for DD and tracking was also - quite counter-intuitively - rarely taken advantage of (too fast for some tracks meaning brake issues, potential warranty issues, very high maintenance costs). In other words there may have been a time and place for it, but not in my friend's life.

Incidentally he is now driving an X5M plus modified 135i, which add up roughly to an M3 sedan.


Quote:
However bmw can only hold on to loyal bmw enthusiasts for so long without actually stepping up their performance as name and brand can only take you so far.
BMW did very well before the GT-R despite the presence of faster cars in the market. 911S, 911 Turbo and the GT variants have always been measurably faster than the M3 in pretty much any performance category, various AMG models have always been faster in a straight line yet the M3 has continued to sell without problems.

The GT-R costs between $90-100k, the M3 Coupe between $60-77k, that is a significant difference. What's more, the M3 comes in Coupe, Convertible and Sedan forms which address some market needs the GT-R simply cannot.

There is very little bleed between M3 and GT-R in either direction. Pricing and the vastly different character of the cars see to that.

If I hadn't actually driven it - as fast as I dared over the roads I normally drive - I would have perhaps felt the pang of desire for it - but not after driving it. Anyway, based on the results they've had with the GT-R, if Nissan decides to build a direct M3 competitor no expense spared then I will certainly consider it.

Quote:
Even the Merc is obliterating the performance of the m3 in anything but the corners and even that is close.
You mean, the M3 is obliterating the Merc in anything but acceleration contests.

My track experience vs. the C63 (with better driver) was that the M3 was comfortably faster. That 1-2 second gap in the dry is very repeatable and turns into a 2-4 second gap in the rain.

In terms of street driving experience, they are both *way* too fast to fully exploit where I live. To the point where I could be easily persuaded to go with a *slower* car, just so I can bury that pedal more often.


Of course, your own personal experience may vary greatly.
__________________

2015 F80 ED
2004 Z4 3.0
2014 X3 35i
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 05:01 PM   #39
Nine
Banned
46
Rep
1,925
Posts

Drives: Not ZCP, FML.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: DC, Miami, NYC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattixxg View Post
Same as any other company....its not like theyre going to go broke dude. Nissan is a multi million dollar company, just like the others. Hell, toyota has their lfa---of which im still trying to figure out what they were trying to attempt.

My dude, I don't think you realize how draining the GT-R could be. Think about all the R&D, time at the Ring, parts ...and then look at the price. Other companies do it, but they have larger margins on their cars. Also, the GT-R is being updated on an annual basis, do you realize what efforts that takes to roll out a new model with upgraded x, y, z and maintain approximately the same price...

I would argue that at BEST Nissan breaks even on the sales of the car if not takes a little hit on it in hopes of recouping costs at time of service, parts or warranty.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 05:27 PM   #40
alms211
Banned
11
Rep
746
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattixxg View Post
Yup. You better run..



Ive seen quite a few comparos in here, price, performance...




Same as any other company....its not like theyre going to go broke dude. Nissan is a multi million dollar company, just like the others. Hell, toyota has their lfa---of which im still trying to figure out what they were trying to attempt.



Dude, you sound like a 13 year old hater with that comment

Reading comprehension must not be your forte. I said I could buy 5 of them as obviously a tongue in cheek comment --- was mentioned in the first place as the first thing those that feel the need to defend the GT-R always isinuate that the reason for not liking the GT-R is either jealousy or lack of funds. I'm telling you it's neither in my case. I don't like the car. Period.
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 05:50 PM   #41
991GT3
Captain
991GT3's Avatar
76
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: Ford Raptor
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Dakota

iTrader: (0)

It strikes me as a bit odd that certain people that don't like the GTR and complain that there are too many threads about a GTR insist on commenting on it over and over again.
__________________

-2016 Macan Turbo(GF vehicle)
-2017 Ford Raptor
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 06:13 PM   #42
M3 Montreal
Colonel
43
Rep
2,194
Posts

Drives: 2012 M3 SG ,DCT & 2011 S4
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal , Canada

iTrader: (0)

[quote=Gearhead999s;10881756]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
Ugh... I hate the app for this website. If you quote a thread and write up something it oftentimes loses what you posted and just puts in the quote!!!

As far as pricing te GTR doesn't really have many options. You're comparing the M3 starting at 71k in Canada vs a GTR at 100k. The GTR doesn't have many options. My buddy bought a new one and the only option was the silver paint (something like 15 coats) which was 5 or 6k but they didn't charge him for it. Total cost was 99k. Most M3's in caanada leave the lot at somewhere around 85k so it's only 15k.

At least the GTR is a 2 2 and way more spacious than the 911 hence why I think it does justify being in the vs thread.

In my opinion the GTR deserves to be in the va thread over the Cayman which is a 2 seater. Or any vs thread that is a 2 seater.

There's a reason why so many are flipping over to a GTR and a new model like the 2013 should justify a new thread. I don't feel like sifting through an older thread that doesn't relate to the current model.

I love my M3 and if I trusted the long term use/abuse of the GTR I would have flipped to one myself. Hell I've already hit the price range of angtr with my mods anyways...
A 2012 lists in Canada for $115300 with the paint
__________________
2012 E92-M3 Space Grey on Fox Red, DCT

2011 B8 S4 S-Tronic , Black on magma red
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 07:42 PM   #43
avex8
Captain
avex8's Avatar
49
Rep
918
Posts

Drives: 11 E92 M3, 13 X3 35i, 14 650i
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
It strikes me as a bit odd that certain people that don't like the GTR and complain that there are too many threads about a GTR insist on commenting on it over and over again.
How do you have 2013 GT-R when the 2012 is not even out yet
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2011, 07:57 PM   #44
991GT3
Captain
991GT3's Avatar
76
Rep
885
Posts

Drives: Ford Raptor
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North Dakota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakerx8 View Post
How do you have 2013 GT-R when the 2012 is not even out yet
Huh? The 2012 model year GTRs have been available since March 2011 and the 2013s are being built now. I traded a 2012 for a 2013. Yes the model year designation is dumb.
__________________

-2016 Macan Turbo(GF vehicle)
-2017 Ford Raptor
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:34 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST