Call me crazy.......

RayC · 07-18-2011, 03:24 AM

Good info all! I don't have plans to use R-comps any time soon but good to have the information ahead of time.

The HACK · 07-18-2011, 09:46 AM

The fact that you are overwhelming street tire in 3 laps means you are not ready for R-comps yet.

It means you are uneccessarily rough with the inputs and tires are doing far more work than they need to and you're going slow while looking fast. Adding R-comps simply means you'll have more grip but not more speed.

aus · 07-18-2011, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin_D

so you do not smash into a wall with DSC off with slicks

trust me, it all looks easier than it really is. race tires on stock suspension exaggerates the weaknesses the car has

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3heaven

I think one of the biggest drawbacks for newer drivers on the track running R-Compounds is that it hides poor driving. With less grippier tires you can focus more on your technique and line on the track and after you've mastered the basics and have a good amount of seat time you can upgrade your equipment.

R-Compound tires will hide mistakes because of its high grip level and it'll be harder to fix in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The HACK

The fact that you are overwhelming street tire in 3 laps means you are not ready for R-comps yet.

It means you are uneccessarily rough with the inputs and tires are doing far more work than they need to and you're going slow while looking fast. Adding R-comps simply means you'll have more grip but not more speed.

I don't know how much experience OP has, but unless he has a LOT of track time under his belt, I'd listen to the above statements.
I've been in cars with instructors in completely stock cars and they are FAST and the PS2's lasted the whole session in 110 degree heat.

There are other tire options out there too, like other's have said: ADO8, RS3, NTO5, StarSpec. The RS3 just got voted best tire in Grassroots this month, but they were using a Miata.
.

DerekSelmanRacing · 07-18-2011, 10:30 AM

I can tell you from experience the R6's will not work on a ZCP car with as much ft negative camber as pulled pins will allow. You'll need -2.5 to -3 to make them work. The outside edge of the tire will cord quickly. Coilovers and/or camber plates are required.

PrimeBMW · 07-18-2011, 06:05 PM

Hey Guys. Thank you to those with useful information in which I can use. I can understand where most are coming from. The goal is to have fun and be safe. The comments about my driving may not be accurate.......you just are not familiar with my experience, driving style and my home track. You may be surprised how smooth my inputs are.

BTW the purpose of the thread was 18” vs. 19” R compound not whether I was personally ready for R compounds

Good day

Martin_D · 07-18-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Hey Guys. Thank you to those with useful information in which I can use. I can understand where most are coming from. The goal is to have fun and be safe. The comments about my driving may not be accurate.......you just are not familiar with my experience, driving style and my home track. You may be surprised how smooth my inputs are.

BTW the purpose of the thread was 18” vs. 19” R compound not whether I was personally ready for R compounds

Good day

trying to help so you keep the car shiny

18 r6 and 19 r6 are the same darn thing. i went through $11k worth of them last month

Martin_D · 07-18-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerekSelmanRacing

I can tell you from experience the R6's will not work on a ZCP car with as much ft negative camber as pulled pins will allow. You'll need -2.5 to -3 to make them work. The outside edge of the tire will cord quickly. Coilovers and/or camber plates are required.

Please make this a sticky. +Infinity if it is a number?

1MOREMOD · 07-18-2011, 07:12 PM

who is this martin d with 11k in tires in a month? thanks for all the info. good to hear.

Martin_D · 07-18-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriszeh

who is this martin d with 11k in tires in a month? thanks for all the info. good to hear.

guys i run with spend $15k a month on slicks...

hoosier r6 sweet spot is 2-4 heat cycles, after 12 heat cycles I junk 'em.

did 22 track days last month, 4-5 sessions per day. the gt3 eats tires quickly

1MOREMOD · 07-18-2011, 07:35 PM

sponsored i take it then. how do you get 22 days in otherwise. an instructor?

ShadeD1 · 07-18-2011, 07:42 PM

+1 this has been my experience as well. I run a square setup with 18x10s and 285/30/18 Hoosiers. I get 1-2 weekends out of them but they work fine with the stock suspension. I love them but only switched to them from my ad08s after I had been tracking for 2 years and in the advanced run group. Things would get ugly quick for an inexperienced driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rldzhao@M-World

1. Your car's suspension will work just fine with slick tires, at least with modest, non-competition use.

2. A completely stock car will drop around 2-3 seconds on a 2 min track from stock tires to Hoosiers... in the hands of a racing driver. In the hands of a novice or intermediate HPDE driver, probably less so.

3. One common argument against a novice using slick tires is that slick tires don't give good warning before completely losing grip, which is true depending on what brand of tires you use.

But, most importantly, slick tires would allow you to reach much higher grip, which typically means much higher speed, before you lose traction. And if you are not yet proficient at controlling your car in this situation, you are much more likely to get into a serious accident.

4. There are plenty of so called Extreme Performance tires (AD08, RE-11) which produce an amazing amount of grip for an essentially street tire. And they do not over heat as easily as the PS2 or Continentals that come with the car.

Yes they are still slower than Cups or Hoosiers, but they also last perhaps 4-8 weekends under heavy use vs. 1-2 on Hoosiers.

5. Just as I like to set up the overall balance of suspension on less grippy tires, the same applies for learning how to drive. Why shitty tires you loose traction at a much lower speed, and that gives a novice more time to react. Using slick tires would only mask undesired driving habits.

elh0102 · 07-18-2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Hey Guys. Thank you to those with useful information in which I can use. I can understand where most are coming from. The goal is to have fun and be safe. The comments about my driving may not be accurate.......you just are not familiar with my experience, driving style and my home track. You may be surprised how smooth my inputs are.

BTW the purpose of the thread was 18” vs. 19” R compound not whether I was personally ready for R compounds

Good day

I see no advantage in 19" wheels. It restricts you to a smaller and more expensive selection of tires. I have StopTech 380mm front rotors and the ST-60 caliper, and I found several 18" wheels that have sufficient clearance. I would never use 19" by choice.

Martin_D · 07-18-2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriszeh

sponsored i take it then. how do you get 22 days in otherwise. an instructor?

no sponsors, just a rich girlfriend

m3heaven · 07-18-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin_D

no sponsors, just a rich girlfriend

Does she have a sister in Los Angeles?

1MOREMOD · 07-18-2011, 08:23 PM

thats one hell of a sponsor if your serious you are a lucky dude.

aus · 07-18-2011, 11:44 PM

Did you guys see Martin's car??? SICKEST CAR HERE- PERIOD.
Having said that, the GT3 is amazing too.

1MOREMOD · 07-19-2011, 02:53 AM

where are some photos of it cant find any but older ones with the fall lines or volks.

persian54 · 07-19-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3heaven

Does she have a sister in Los Angeles?

Sister anywhere? I can move, not an issue! lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriszeh

thats one hell of a sponsor if your serious you are a lucky dude.

You don't know Martin..

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477317

stega · 07-19-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aus

Did you guys see Martin's car??? SICKEST CAR HERE- PERIOD.
Having said that, the GT3 is amazing too.

Too bad the car does not exist as it once did. Its parted out.... So yhea.

Still was the sickest in its day. IMO...

GT3=WIN.

kartracer12 · 07-19-2011, 07:04 PM

I've seen martinD drive and he does abuse the tires. He is not joking when he says he spends that much time at the track.

Dan Halen · 07-19-2011, 07:48 PM

seriously good info/insight in this thread- thanks for sharing, even if the OP doesnt seem so open.

wuzupfoo · 07-19-2011, 11:36 PM

How much experience do you have OP? did you ever mention it?

From my most recent experience (Im a noob) out at Big Willow in the heat last weekend I actually had fun just trying to get better control of the car as I felt the tires getting hotter and hotter. Im running Vreds so the greasyness wasnt too bad and plus it wasnt scorching hot but there was a reduction in grip in the last few laps. Anyways the point was that I spent more time focusing on keeping the car from sliding and shifting its weight detrimentally and of course being smooth. I actually learned alot this weekend even though I couldnt go as fast in the PM sessions by trying to run the line as fast as I could without the DSC popping up.

07-18-2011, 03:24 AM	#23
RayC Lieutenant 13 Rep 544 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Centreville, VA iTrader: (4)	Good info all! I don't have plans to use R-comps any time soon but good to have the information ahead of time.
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07-18-2011, 09:46 AM	#24
The HACK Midlife Crises Racing Silent but Deadly Class 1820 Rep 5,337 Posts Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day iTrader: (1)	The fact that you are overwhelming street tire in 3 laps means you are not ready for R-comps yet. It means you are uneccessarily rough with the inputs and tires are doing far more work than they need to and you're going slow while looking fast. Adding R-comps simply means you'll have more grip but not more speed. __________________ Sitting on a beat-up office chair in front of a 5 year old computer in a basement floor, sipping on stale coffee watching a bunch of meaningless numbers scrolling aimlessly on a dimly lit 19” monitor.
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07-18-2011, 10:30 AM	#26
DerekSelmanRacing Second Lieutenant 8 Rep 222 Posts Drives: 05 Z4 3.0 SMG, 01 530 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ. iTrader: (0)	I can tell you from experience the R6's will not work on a ZCP car with as much ft negative camber as pulled pins will allow. You'll need -2.5 to -3 to make them work. The outside edge of the tire will cord quickly. Coilovers and/or camber plates are required.
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07-18-2011, 06:05 PM	#27
PrimeBMW Major 662 Rep 1,424 Posts Drives: E46 M3+S62, E92 M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Portland, OR iTrader: (0)	Hey Guys. Thank you to those with useful information in which I can use. I can understand where most are coming from. The goal is to have fun and be safe. The comments about my driving may not be accurate.......you just are not familiar with my experience, driving style and my home track. You may be surprised how smooth my inputs are. BTW the purpose of the thread was 18” vs. 19” R compound not whether I was personally ready for R compounds Good day
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07-18-2011, 07:12 PM	#30
1MOREMOD - 11817 Rep 23,187 Posts Drives: Race car-> Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: check your mirrors iTrader: (5)	who is this martin d with 11k in tires in a month? thanks for all the info. good to hear. __________________ 02 Tiag e46 M3\|6MT\|GC plates\|MCS c.o.\|GC bars\|GC race control arms\|GC bushings\|BW eng. & tran. mounts\|subframe kit\|BW race shifter\|BW Jaffster\|Euro header\|BW exhaust\|K&N c.a.i.\|Epic race tune\|Rouge pulleys\|Seibon CF hood\|CSL bumper\|apr gt 250 & splitter\|ST-40\|XR-2\|SS lines\|half cage\|Recaro profi\|Profi 2 harness\|BMWpedals\|BW studs\|
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07-18-2011, 07:35 PM	#32
1MOREMOD - 11817 Rep 23,187 Posts Drives: Race car-> Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: check your mirrors iTrader: (5)	sponsored i take it then. how do you get 22 days in otherwise. an instructor? __________________ 02 Tiag e46 M3\|6MT\|GC plates\|MCS c.o.\|GC bars\|GC race control arms\|GC bushings\|BW eng. & tran. mounts\|subframe kit\|BW race shifter\|BW Jaffster\|Euro header\|BW exhaust\|K&N c.a.i.\|Epic race tune\|Rouge pulleys\|Seibon CF hood\|CSL bumper\|apr gt 250 & splitter\|ST-40\|XR-2\|SS lines\|half cage\|Recaro profi\|Profi 2 harness\|BMWpedals\|BW studs\|
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07-18-2011, 08:23 PM	#37
1MOREMOD - 11817 Rep 23,187 Posts Drives: Race car-> Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: check your mirrors iTrader: (5)	thats one hell of a sponsor if your serious you are a lucky dude. __________________ 02 Tiag e46 M3\|6MT\|GC plates\|MCS c.o.\|GC bars\|GC race control arms\|GC bushings\|BW eng. & tran. mounts\|subframe kit\|BW race shifter\|BW Jaffster\|Euro header\|BW exhaust\|K&N c.a.i.\|Epic race tune\|Rouge pulleys\|Seibon CF hood\|CSL bumper\|apr gt 250 & splitter\|ST-40\|XR-2\|SS lines\|half cage\|Recaro profi\|Profi 2 harness\|BMWpedals\|BW studs\| Last edited by 1MOREMOD; 07-18-2011 at 09:13 PM..
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07-18-2011, 11:44 PM	#38
aus Major General 890 Rep 9,031 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	Did you guys see Martin's car??? SICKEST CAR HERE- PERIOD. Having said that, the GT3 is amazing too. __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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07-19-2011, 02:53 AM	#39
1MOREMOD - 11817 Rep 23,187 Posts Drives: Race car-> Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: check your mirrors iTrader: (5)	where are some photos of it cant find any but older ones with the fall lines or volks. __________________ 02 Tiag e46 M3\|6MT\|GC plates\|MCS c.o.\|GC bars\|GC race control arms\|GC bushings\|BW eng. & tran. mounts\|subframe kit\|BW race shifter\|BW Jaffster\|Euro header\|BW exhaust\|K&N c.a.i.\|Epic race tune\|Rouge pulleys\|Seibon CF hood\|CSL bumper\|apr gt 250 & splitter\|ST-40\|XR-2\|SS lines\|half cage\|Recaro profi\|Profi 2 harness\|BMWpedals\|BW studs\|
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07-19-2011, 07:04 PM	#42
kartracer12 Private 19 Rep 86 Posts Drives: e90M3 White Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: VA iTrader: (0)	I've seen martinD drive and he does abuse the tires. He is not joking when he says he spends that much time at the track. __________________ Stoptech ST-60/ST-40 BBK \| Akrapovic Full Evolution \| Dinan Intake \| Dinan Pulley \| Apex Wheels \| BPM Sport Tune \| Euro MDM \| BMW Motorsport Carbon Spoiler
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07-19-2011, 07:48 PM	#43
Dan Halen Sheetrock Intl. 28 Rep 128 Posts Drives: E92, R6 SBK, etc, etc.. Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SF iTrader: (2)	seriously good info/insight in this thread- thanks for sharing, even if the OP doesnt seem so open.
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07-19-2011, 11:36 PM	#44
wuzupfoo Lieutenant 54 Rep 425 Posts Drives: E92 M3; G30 540i Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Mean streets of Irvine iTrader: (3)	How much experience do you have OP? did you ever mention it? From my most recent experience (Im a noob) out at Big Willow in the heat last weekend I actually had fun just trying to get better control of the car as I felt the tires getting hotter and hotter. Im running Vreds so the greasyness wasnt too bad and plus it wasnt scorching hot but there was a reduction in grip in the last few laps. Anyways the point was that I spent more time focusing on keeping the car from sliding and shifting its weight detrimentally and of course being smooth. I actually learned alot this weekend even though I couldnt go as fast in the PM sessions by trying to run the line as fast as I could without the DSC popping up. Last edited by wuzupfoo; 07-19-2011 at 11:43 PM..
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