First Drive

[ruff]

Originally Posted by Romo

Gerez is a little bit hard to judge IMO, the ones I saw at Garching where also dirty. So can not tell you exactly the difference between Yet en Carbon black.That is just the reason I don`t want a black car anymore, to quick to dirty that is. But black does suit the car verry well.
Interlagos is a difficult color also, because it looks different in changing light conditions, from a deep blue in bright sunlight ( wich I do like) to deep purple in the shade or evening conditions ( wich I don`t like). Gerez will also react on the amount off light available. Both colors are not my 1st choise.
The color that did shock me was and still is; Silverstone2; AWESOME IMO

Romo, thanks for your quick and informative response.

[Dammmittt]

I don't think i've ever seen a car that black didn't look good on...except cars that were ugly to start of course.

[esquire]

steve,

bmw of late has a reputation for underrating their HP and 0-60 statistics. understanding that you cant divulge specifics... do you feel like the new m3 is continuing that tradition?

[MazdaMan]

Originally Posted by Steved

Actually the RS4 had already been returned to Audi's press fleet, unfortunately that hadn't had time to repair the bonnet before we took it out again. So wherever I drove it in France and Spain I had people pointing at the damage.. doh!

I don't believe it was chipped. It certainly drove very smoothly though and was quicker than a Ferrari 355 GTB that I met during a 100 mile sprint through southern Spain. He didn't seem pleased to be dispatched so strongly by an Audi A4..

Thanks for all your comments... it's great to hear the details before they hit the car mags.

Stupid question: Did the car have a sunroof?

I've read that the sunroof version will NOT have the CFRP roof. I ask because I'm hoping that the curb weight (1655kg) is for the steel roof version.... Should this be true, the carbon fiber version will of course be less heavy. With the aluminum engine block and heads, I really was hoping the car would be lighter then the e46 M; Sadly this appears not to be the case.

[Smoltz]

Originally Posted by MazdaMan

Thanks for all your comments... it's great to hear the details before they hit the car mags.

Stupid question: Did the car have a sunroof?

I've read that the sunroof version will NOT have the CFRP roof. I ask because I'm hoping that the curb weight (1655kg) is for the steel roof version.... Should this be true, the carbon fiber version will of course be less heavy. With the aluminum engine block and heads, I really was hoping the car would be lighter then the e46 M; Sadly this appears not to be the case.

The curb weight is for the carbon roof version.

-Adam

[M3onTwomps]

Originally Posted by Just_me

Have you driven one?

Compared to the C63 yes, not compared to a Ford Focus. Rs4 have had 420hp for a long time now. Bmw should have given the M3 at least 440hp, at least it would look good on paper and good for bragging rights.

The horsepower gap between M3 E46 and M5 E39 was much smaller than M3 E92 and M5 e60. Why the hell did they change that for the new M3.


I really hope the M3 engine has more power than BMW claim it does.

No, I haven't. That's why I'm waiting for the car to be released and I test drive it before I call 420hp "weak". That's absurd.

[M3onTwomps]

Originally Posted by LJ35DRVR

I know what I said, after all, I said it. I'm not trying to turn this into a "vs" thread. You guys are. I just want someone who's actually driven both cars to give me an opinion before I make a decision on spending what is (to me) a fairly significant chunk of cash. I'm not sure what you're trying to support in the above quote. Yes, I asked those questions. Can you answer them? What I want to know is whether a non-M 3 series putting down roughly the same power as the M version can even be compared to the M version. It is obviously going to have other shortcomings of being a non-M (brakes, suspension, steering) but at the end of the day it is still BMW and an awesome machine. BL, is it worth my money and is there any way to decide without having personally driven the M?

Maybe you should try driving the M before making your decision.

[Steved]

Originally Posted by Dammmittt

Hmmm...sounds like when I got my ///M Coupe. Still smiling about it. What I really need to know from a man that owns an M3 CSL and a Z4M Coupe...is what do you consider your "fun" car? It seems crazy to own both to me. I'd walk out to my garage and my head would explode.

Late edit: I guess now that I think about it the CSL would probably be more for the track than anything else...what with the cardboard trunk and lack of amenities such as a radio and a/c. Still a tough choice tho

The Z4M Coupe is more of an everyday car, and the nature of its power delivery is more torquey and linear. The M3 CSL is like a hyperactive kid, just cannot settle down and behave. Every tight corner has to be taken sideways, every straight piece of road has to be taken with the induction noise at its loudest. It's the party animal of the Frat pack.

I therefore find it easier to choose the Z4M Coupe for a regular journey, whereas I have to be in the mood to take my M3 CSL out.

I've found a 'sort-of' logic to keeping them both...

[Steved]

Originally Posted by esquire

steve,

bmw of late has a reputation for underrating their HP and 0-60 statistics. understanding that you cant divulge specifics... do you feel like the new m3 is continuing that tradition?

Yes, it feels at least 414 bhp. There was nothing wrong with those horses under its bonnet.

[Steved]

Originally Posted by MazdaMan

Thanks for all your comments... it's great to hear the details before they hit the car mags.

Stupid question: Did the car have a sunroof? (

No, all the press cars had CFRP roofs. In fact as I was checking recently I could not find any reference in the UK spec sheets to a sunroof being available, although I know BMW are providing it in other countries as a no-cost option.

[m_bazeepaymon]

Originally Posted by esquire

steve,

bmw of late has a reputation for underrating their HP and 0-60 statistics. understanding that you cant divulge specifics... do you feel like the new m3 is continuing that tradition?

I really wanna hear the answer to this question

[Just_me]

Originally Posted by M3onTwomps

No, I haven't. That's why I'm waiting for the car to be released and I test drive it before I call 420hp "weak". That's absurd.

It all depends on what you compare those 420hp with. 420hp is enough for 90% of the population but is it enough for the competition?
I sure hope so!

[LJ35DRVR]

Originally Posted by Steved

I've driven several 335i and in standard form it would be clearly beaten by an M3 in terms of acceleration, but the M3 driver would need to use more revs which clearly is how it is designed to perform. It would also be thoroughly beaten in terms of handling, steering feel and braking. Essentially the gap between 335i and E92 M3 is similar to the gap between 330i and M3 when the E46 was launched back in 2001. Many people though will find the 335i adequate for their needs, but those who want an M-car will find it worth their while moving up to an M3.

A properly tuned 335i would clearly be as quick as an M3 on the road, unless the M3 driver really extended the revs, but there's a lot more to the M3 than just straight line performance (as there always has been with M3s).

What you would miss with a modded 335i is the way the M3 sounds as it accelerates and the competence of the chassis when really pressing on. The 335i is a 7/10ths car, great up to a point but the M3 is a 9/10ths car with deeper reserves of talent, should you choose to use them. BMW clearly wish to offer their customers a choice, and they have chosen to make the M3 more hard-core to create more distance over the 335i.

Exactly the kind of insightful answer I was fishing for. Thanks for your time. I'm about 90% certain that I want to place an order for the M, just have to sell the wife on the other 10%!

[Tobizach]

Nice loving it even more cant wait

Thanks for all your work and info sharing steve.

[Dammmittt]

Originally Posted by LJ35DRVR

Exactly the kind of insightful answer I was fishing for. Thanks for your time. I'm about 90% certain that I want to place an order for the M, just have to sell the wife on the other 10%!

Nice...i'm sure your wife would be happy to know she's only worth 10%!!!

[NewhouseEnt]

I have noticed several other articles said they got 0-60 in BMW's claimed 4.8 sec. If they were just repeating the specs from the paper, is it that BMW made you promise not to be able to post your observed 0-60? Did they even allow you to try?
I cannot figure out why this figure is blaringly omitted from the tests. If it is 4.8, that's disasterous. The 335i has already established that time with 120 less horsepower.
Quarter mile, same question, same thinking?

[Steved]

Originally Posted by NewhouseEnt

I have noticed several other articles said they got 0-60 in BMW's claimed 4.8 sec. If they were just repeating the specs from the paper, is it that BMW made you promise not to be able to post your observed 0-60? Did they even allow you to try?
I cannot figure out why this figure is blaringly omitted from the tests. If it is 4.8, that's disasterous. The 335i has already established that time with 120 less horsepower.
Quarter mile, same question, same thinking?

I cannot imagine how anybody would have managed to gather performance figures on the car. They certainly could not at the circuit which was a tightly controlled shambles, and as for doing so on the road I really doubt it. Performance testing will not be happening for most UK magazines until later next month.

The RS4 is quicker than a 335i and the M3 pulled away from the RS4, so I don't have any issues with its straight line performance.

[1198r]

Steved - would be interested to hear if you would get the car de-limited?

Cheers

[Steved]

Originally Posted by 1198r

Steved - would be interested to hear if you would get the car de-limited?

Cheers

My CSL is delimited (as ordered from the BMW factory) and I once did an indicated 193mph in it (more likely 183), but vowed never to do it again, the twin lane autobahn felt like it was only a few inches wider than the car at those speeds and if anything had gone wrong I would have been history. I prefer to go round corners fast, rather than in a straight line..

[monsta]

Originally Posted by Steved

I prefer to go round corners fast, rather than in a straight line..

I have yet to track a car & will soon, but these are my exact feeling about my bikes I don't car how fast you are down the front straight I'll get you in the corners when your "parkin it"

[1198r]

Originally Posted by Steved

My CSL is delimited (as ordered from the BMW factory) and I once did an indicated 193mph in it (more likely 183), but vowed never to do it again, the twin lane autobahn felt like it was only a few inches wider than the car at those speeds and if anything had gone wrong I would have been history. I prefer to go round corners fast, rather than in a straight line..

Whooooo dude that is fast in that baby :rocks: - so I guess that is a no then! I am told by my dealer they will not delimit it, so i'll have to find someone who will I would like the opportunity to max the baby out - I guess that comes from the biker in me

[LandShark]

many tks for the info!!!

Originally Posted by Steved

but there's a lot more to the M3 than just straight line performance (as there always has been with M3s).

Originally Posted by Steved

I prefer to go round corners fast, rather than in a straight line..

amen!!