Best budget HPDE car for $20k?

[GT3fan]

I want to start attending some HPDE track days, so I've decided to buy something inexpensive that is cheap to maintain and repair with affordable consumables like brakes and tires and if I crashed it would not be a significant financial pain.

My e90M is too pristine and a little heavy, which equates to higher consumable costs. I considered using my DD GTi, but I made the mistake of buying an automatic for my commute.

I want something relatively light that does not require lots of costly preparation to be reliable and track ready, manual transmission, but most of all fun to drive.

I was considering an S2000, FR-S/BRZ, 370Z or Fiesta ST. An e46m is not on my list, since I don't want a high mileage car and cost of repairs are surely higher than an s2000 or BRZ.

Any thoughts?

[Move Over]

I was in the same boat, wound up selling my E90 as it was too nerve racking to drive a modded one around the track aggressively. However the E46M was on the top of my list and that's what I wound up with for under 25k (completely track built). It has 75k miles, so not super high.

S2k plan on 15k + 5-7500 for track mods, same with a BRZ unless salvage. Seen too many VQ's blow up on track, and the Fiesta while fun on the street is slow and underwhelming on the track. I'd rethink the E46, they are a fraction of the cost to run than the E9x. Rotors are only $40~ compared to a whopping $250 on the E90.

[Move Over]

Here's my e46M

[GT3fan]

Originally Posted by Move Over

I was in the same boat, wound up selling my E90 as it was too nerve racking to drive a modded one around the track aggressively. However the E46M was on the top of my list and that's what I wound up with for under 25k (completely track built). It has 75k miles, so not super high.

S2k plan on 15k + 5-7500 for track mods, same with a BRZ unless salvage. Seen too many VQ's blow up on track, and the Fiesta while fun on the street is slow and underwhelming on the track. I'd rethink the E46, they are a fraction of the cost to run than the E9x. Rotors are only $40~ compared to a whopping $250 on the E90.

Thanks for the info. I will reconsider an e46m. I thought they were costly to maintain, but your comments gives me comfort. Do you feel your car is still streetable?

[TheDirtyThirty]

Originally Posted by AMG2M3

Thanks for the info. I will reconsider an e46m. I thought they were costly to maintain, but your comments gives me comfort. Do you feel your car is still streetable?

They get costly when you don't replace parts prone to failure like misc vanos parts, rod bearings, etc.

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by AMG2M3

Thanks for the info. I will reconsider an e46m. I thought they were costly to maintain, but your comments gives me comfort. Do you feel your car is still streetable?

I can drive it on the street but mine is 100% gutted from the drivers seat back, and has solid diff bushings so it is noisy. Depends on your tolerance, but I enjoy ripping around town still. Mine has the Bimmerworld race exhaust which is er...rather obnoxious lol

As far as maintenance costs goes, take car of the vanos, subframe reinforcement, and bearings (which should have been done by recall) and you will be fine. At this point in their lives find one with those already done and you're golden.

[Mantii]

Originally Posted by Move Over

I can drive it on the street but mine is 100% gutted from the drivers seat back, and has solid diff bushings so it is noisy. Depends on your tolerance, but I enjoy ripping around town still. Mine has the Bimmerworld race exhaust which is er...rather obnoxious lol

As far as maintenance costs goes, take car of the vanos, subframe reinforcement, and bearings (which should have been done by recall) and you will be fine. At this point in their lives find one with those already done and you're golden.

It's exactly what I did. Bought a F80, went to the track for the first time with it, loved it, and bought an e46 with 58k bone stock under 20k for HPDE. Use it on the street but its starting to get a little rough as I have a ton of solid bushings as well. The car doesnt need a lot, it all depends on what you are looking for and how much you want to invest in it. The main things to take care of as mentioned is the subframe, vanos sooner or later BEFORE it starts going, and the cooling system BEFORE problems occur. Rod bearings if nothing was done or more thank 80-100kk miles since last replacement if high mileage. Do that and buy some decent pads and flush your brakes, and you are set. You can get away for under 5k for the above depending where you take it and if you can DIY for some things.

I've been on a slippery slope since I bought it, and less than a year since buying it, rear is getting gutted and welded in roll bar going in.

[1MOREMOD]

If you try to make it dual purpose then you start to compromise it's track ability.

[vegaseric]

I'd look at the 370Z, or even an 07-08 350Z. I know people who run HPDEs and even Time Attack with good results. And the parts/consumables are reasonably priced.

Not too many M cars are "budget" HPDE rides.

[BrewRifle]

I'd look at getting an E36 M3 for such events. Cheap(ish) parts compared to the E46 M3.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by BrewRifle

I'd look at getting an E36 M3 for such events. Cheap(ish) parts compared to the E46 M3.

Agreed, but many are in rough shape these days. That means you can get them cheap, but be ready to do some body work to fix rust and other problems.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by Move Over

I was in the same boat, wound up selling my E90 as it was too nerve racking to drive a modded one around the track aggressively. However the E46M was on the top of my list and that's what I wound up with for under 25k (completely track built). It has 75k miles, so not super high.

S2k plan on 15k + 5-7500 for track mods, same with a BRZ unless salvage. Seen too many VQ's blow up on track, and the Fiesta while fun on the street is slow and underwhelming on the track. I'd rethink the E46, they are a fraction of the cost to run than the E9x. Rotors are only $40~ compared to a whopping $250 on the E90.

Do you have a build thread by any chance?

[GT3fan]

Originally Posted by dparm

Agreed, but many are in rough shape these days. That means you can get them cheap, but be ready to do some body work to fix rust and other problems.

This is the reason I was targeting a late model car such as a BRZ, s2000 and fiesta since they are still fairly new and probably nice very nice condition for $20k used.

I know if I make the car dual purpose I will compromise on performance, but I'm not ready to commit to a pure track toy. I'd like to be able work it into my daily driver rotation.

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by ayao

Do you have a build thread by any chance?

I don't, as I purchased it primarily finished.

[roastbeef]

I'd reconsider a heavily used e46 m3. Lots of people on here seem to be happy with tacking them. Just be prepared to go though it...
Brz's, frs' are slow as hell. Dogs.

[ayao]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

I'd reconsider a heavily used e46 m3. Lots of people on here seem to be happy with tacking them. Just be prepared to go though it...
Brz's, frs' are slow as hell. Dogs.

I retract my unasked question about a salvage ND Miata with some FM suspension bits...

[radiantm3]

As an S2K owner and friends of a few who track FRS/BRZ's and 350/70z's, definitely the S2K out of those. E36/46 would be a good car as well, but everything will cost more than an S2K. I went from a highly modified E92 M3 to my S2K and it's been a big improvement in driving involvement and enjoyment on and off the track. I even had a GT4 for 6 months and my S2K is just as much fun to drive on track (although it is much scarier). But the S2K is a hard car to drive fast. M3's are so forgiving and easy to handle at the limits and also have way more power so you don't have to work as hard for good times. It's one of the reasons I love the S2K so much. It's a huge challenge and rewarding to get respectable times.

There's also things you have to do on the S2K to make it somewhat track competitive, the main being getting on a 255 square setup. The stock tire setup just doesn't provide much grip. It's super fun to drive, but fairly slow on track.

The FRS/BRZ just have way too little power even for me. 350/70z have lots of cooling issues out of the box and they are heavy cars. They can both be made fast, but the S2K is just the most logical out of those 3 choices. If it were me, I'd be deciding between an S2K and E46 M3. If you want to become a better driver, I'd say the S2K would be the better tool. If you just want to enjoy HPDE's and go fast relatively easily, the M3.

[ayao]

How would you describe the handling characteristics of the S2K that make it scary? Short wheelbase twitchiness?
At Thunderhill a few weeks ago there were some pretty fast S2000s out there that gave me a new respect for that car.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by ayao

How would you describe the handling characteristics of the S2K that make it scary? Short wheelbase twitchiness?
At Thunderhill a few weeks ago there were some pretty fast S2000s out there that gave me a new respect for that car.

Yea the car is very oversteer prone out of the box. With no aero, they need fast hands at all times. That's why most s2k's at the track have a huge wing. Most do it to make the car more forgiving. I run 1:45's at Laguna and 1:55 at Sonoma with 255 square rs3's and no aero. I know a guy who has a similar setup and runs 1:41 at Laguna and 1:51's at Sonoma. He's really quick. My car scares me at the limits. I actually crashed at Laguna late last year in my car. It was the first time I ever spun a car unintentionally after 50 track days and happened to go into a tire wall. Still can't figure it why it happened. The m3 is very controllable even at extreme slip angles in comparison.

[GT3fan]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

As an S2K owner and friends of a few who track FRS/BRZ's and 350/70z's, definitely the S2K out of those. E36/46 would be a good car as well, but everything will cost more than an S2K. I went from a highly modified E92 M3 to my S2K and it's been a big improvement in driving involvement and enjoyment on and off the track. I even had a GT4 for 6 months and my S2K is just as much fun to drive on track (although it is much scarier). But the S2K is a hard car to drive fast. M3's are so forgiving and easy to handle at the limits and also have way more power so you don't have to work as hard for good times. It's one of the reasons I love the S2K so much. It's a huge challenge and rewarding to get respectable times.

There's also things you have to do on the S2K to make it somewhat track competitive, the main being getting on a 255 square setup. The stock tire setup just doesn't provide much grip. It's super fun to drive, but fairly slow on track.

The FRS/BRZ just have way too little power even for me. 350/70z have lots of cooling issues out of the box and they are heavy cars. They can both be made fast, but the S2K is just the most logical out of those 3 choices. If it were me, I'd be deciding between an S2K and E46 M3. If you want to become a better driver, I'd say the S2K would be the better tool. If you just want to enjoy HPDE's and go fast relatively easily, the M3.

It sounds like an s2000 might be a good option. I definitely want to have fun and be challenged. I actually don't care about actual lap times and bragging rights.

[DGM33]

The 86 platform (BRZ/FRS) is super light and fun and has some amazing options for FI if you want more power. I sold my NA BRZ (with a few mods including headers and an Ecutek tune) for my M3. I love the power in the M3 but still miss how amazing the handling of the BRZ was. Just don't bother running one stock, there is so much more potential for them!

[ayao]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Yea the car is very oversteer prone out of the box. With no aero, they need fast hands at all times. That's why most s2k's at the track have a huge wing. Most do it to make the car more forgiving. I run 1:45's at Laguna and 1:55 at Sonoma with 255 square rs3's and no aero. I know a guy who has a similar setup and runs 1:41 at Laguna and 1:51's at Sonoma. He's really quick. My car scares me at the limits. I actually crashed at Laguna late last year in my car. It was the first time I ever spun a car unintentionally after 50 track days and happened to go into a tire wall. Still can't figure it why it happened. The m3 is very controllable even at extreme slip angles in comparison.

Found your S2k thread and that answered a bunch of my questions.
What's the TL;DR on AP1 vs AP2 for the track?
And I'm also curious about what turn the MRLS crash happened?