They're So Pretty!! - My new ST-40 Front Kit

[yandy]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Nicely done OP! If you feel like experimenting with other pad compounds, PFCs are also popular on our cars. The 01 compound is the sprint version (hardest-core but fastest wearing and most rotor-hostile) and the 08 has nearly the same bite and somehow both the pads and rotors last longer with them -- and they cost about the same as 01s. All that sold me on 08s when I saw how much PFC pads cost in my ST-60 fitment: $480-550 just for the front!

I mention this mostly because I did a fair amount of research on pads myself before buying and I found that lots of people love the Pagids bit acknowledge that they're VERY picky about being bedded in properly, whereas the PFCs don.'to really care. I personally swap my PFCs in a week before I'll be at the track and drive gently during the week to scrape the street pad deposits off the rotors, then leave them in a week after the event to scrape their own deposits off before going back to street. Obviously race pads make far better scrapers than street pads.

Out of curiosity though, what did you mean about the ST-40 making street/track pad swaps viable compared to the ST-60? Not that I disagree with your reasoning for going ST-40, but it seems equally easy on both choices. I went with the ST-60 myself because I figured a heavy car like ours needed all the fade resistance it could get (thanks to the 380mm rotors, primarily) and because the pads should last longer due to spreading the load over their larger surface.

Good luck and enjoy your track event!!

Thanks for the feedback, what I meant about swap rotation is. Eventually having the ST-40 in the rear as well, and rotate pads back to front as they wear. Should help make them last a bit longer in situations where I don't have spare.

Not my idea, someone else brought it up here, but seemed feasible.

Originally Posted by klammer

Car looks great. Red calipers on MR looks

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Richbot

Sweet. They look surprisingly big behind the 19's, I guess the calipers help. I also went with the st40 (trophy because I like the added lightness and the finish better) fronts for similar reasons, mostly because I don't want to compromise on running my 219M's. Sweet. V

Great choice with the trophy kit, I debated constantly on which version.

Originally Posted by admranger

Agreed!

Now I'm anxious to hear how they work at the track.

If you can't find pagid street pads (I thought our stock pads were made by pagid, or are they juried), maybe you can switch to PFC next time if they make a z-rated and '08 pad in the ST40 size.

I may do that with the PFC, just to try different. I have never driven on PFC pads, and allot of people I've met around swear by them. So after these wear a bit, I may give the 08s a shot.

Thanks!

[bigjae1976]

Stoptech makes a race pad for their calipers. Might want to look at them. I use the SR34 which is about the same as a PF01. I have one axle of PF01s and the other with the SR34s. I've swapped them and didn't notice any difference although there may be some. Not sure if the lower torque compounds will be closer to a PF08...maybe.

They are cheaper!

[1MOREMOD]

i too run the sr34s at bigjaes advice. they are pretty decent. im gonna try cobalts next.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

i too run the sr34s at bigjaes advice. they are pretty decent. im gonna try cobalts next.

Cobalts!!! When you want to win HPDE

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Cobalts!!! When you want to win HPDE

That good?

[yandy]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Stoptech makes a race pad for their calipers. Might want to look at them. I use the SR34 which is about the same as a PF01. I have one axle of PF01s and the other with the SR34s. I've swapped them and didn't notice any difference although there may be some. Not sure if the lower torque compounds will be closer to a PF08...maybe.

They are cheaper!

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

i too run the sr34s at bigjaes advice. they are pretty decent. im gonna try cobalts next.

Will probably try PFC08 depending on how the RS29s do, they may very well be good enough.

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Cobalts!!! When you want to win HPDE

Lmao!

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by yandy

Will probably try PFC08 depending on how the RS29s do, they may very well be good enough.

What I like about the PFCs is that they don't require careful bedding in when being used after ST street pads.

The problem with the Pagids is they seem very finicky about the bedding in process. The advantage is they are tolerable on the street.

[yandy]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

What I like about the PFCs is that they don't require careful bedding in when being used after ST street pads.

The problem with the Pagids is they seem very finicky about the bedding in process. The advantage is they are tolerable on the street.

I've seen that multiple times here, and heard it from BMW race drivers at the track. Apparently PFCs are very easy and forgiving about bedding in, which is always a pain. The paid process was one of the longest I've had to do on any pad.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

That good?

Well Cobalts are a race pad. I have never driven anything else but I have also out braked every car on the track. I have no reason to change. I know you have tried a few pads so I am anxious for you to try them. You might start with XR-2 in the front........XR3 or 2 in the rear.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Well Cobalts are a race pad. I have never driven anything else but I have also out braked every car on the track. I have no reason to change. I know you have tried a few pads so I am anxious for you to try them. You might start with XR-2 in the front........XR3 or 2 in the rear.

I have 2 sets of xr2s and am debating using up my sr34s on the rear or just going all 4 right off.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Well Cobalts are a race pad. I have never driven anything else but I have also out braked every car on the track. I have no reason to change. I know you have tried a few pads so I am anxious for you to try them. You might start with XR-2 in the front........XR3 or 2 in the rear.

I've raced with Cobalts before. They blow compared to PFCs. Bleh.

PFC require exactly zero bedding in for track use. You can drive them to/from the track no problem, even on cold days, though initial bite is a bit slower. It helps build the transfer layer up on the way to the track! The PFCs last a long, long time.

I find PFC pads dreamy.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by admranger

I've raced with Cobalts before. They blow compared to PFCs. Bleh.

PFC require exactly zero bedding in for track use. You can drive them to/from the track no problem, even on cold days, though initial bite is a bit slower. It helps build the transfer layer up on the way to the track! The PFCs last a long, long time.

I find PFC pads dreamy.

Should I post the results of a blind brake pad test? One in which James Clay was the driver and the Cobalt Friction XR-1 came in first? Or that a majority Grand Am teams run Cobalts.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Should I post the results of a blind brake pad test? One in which James Clay was the driver and the Cobalt Friction XR-1 came in first? Or that a majority Grand Am teams run Cobalts.

No worries, I will post up my impressions and that will be that. Not sure I'm good enough to know which is best. I've liked both pagids and the sr34s but would say the pagids slightly more. I just want something that makes my eyeballs come out like a cartoon if I need it.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Should I post the results of a blind brake pad test? One in which James Clay was the driver and the Cobalt Friction XR-1 came in first? Or that a majority Grand Am teams run Cobalts.

Please do! They sucked donkey balls on my race car, but that was about 5 years ago. Things change. Maybe they work great on the setup that was tested vs. cars that resemble the ones we drive?

My opinion is worth what you paid for it. At least I have raced on different pads (PFC, Hawk, Cobalt, etc.) when you stated you haven't run anything else (sponsored perhaps?). Doesn't matter. It's all good.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by admranger

Please do! They sucked donkey balls on my race car, but that was about 5 years ago. Things change. Maybe they work great on the setup that was tested vs. cars that resemble the ones we drive?

My opinion is worth what you paid for it. At least I have raced on different pads (PFC, Hawk, Cobalt, etc.) when you stated you haven't run anything else (sponsored perhaps?). Doesn't matter. It's all good.

I will try to post it up in another thread. Considering the blind test was with a 2002 E46 M3 (a car like ours), James Clay and the Cobalts came first. The data shows the winner. PFC was second. Neither suck. I would guess something else is wrong with the equation. What car, class, BBK, rotor, exact pad compound, tire did you run, front/mid/back of pack? Something is a miss.

[Richbot]

Saying you've raced with cobalt pfcs Etc and they sucked is like saying you raced a Chevy once and it was slow. Sure maybe true but which Chevy? What year? I have used various compounds from hawk carbotech and PFC on racecars, each has had at least one sucky pad but I also like at least one application from all three.

The XR1 in particular gets really good comments from the heavier high hp club race guys. I have used a street cobalt pad and hated it. Horses for courses

[bigjae1976]

Honestly, I think the best track pad is a matter of personal preference. In most cases, the best one will be the first one you had a good experience with because that's what you get used to. I like PF01s and the ST SR34s, both high torque pads. Others don't. I don't like Pagid Yellows, others swear by them. Doesn't make them the best or worst.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

I will try to post it up in another thread. Considering the blind test was with a 2002 E46 M3 (a car like ours), James Clay and the Cobalts came first. The data shows the winner. PFC was second. Neither suck. I would guess something else is wrong with the equation. What car, class, BBK, rotor, exact pad compound, tire did you run, front/mid/back of pack? Something is a miss.

Originally Posted by Richbot

Saying you've raced with cobalt pfcs Etc and they sucked is like saying you raced a Chevy once and it was slow. Sure maybe true but which Chevy? What year? I have used various compounds from hawk carbotech and PFC on racecars, each has had at least one sucky pad but I also like at least one application from all three.

The XR1 in particular gets really good comments from the heavier high hp club race guys. I have used a street cobalt pad and hated it. Horses for courses

I understand what both of you are saying. It's been a while (2008-ish), so the XR1 probably wasn't the pad that I used. I honestly have no idea as the pads went in the trash after wasting a couple weekends with them. Completely forgettable compound. All records went with the car to the new owner. Of course they were race compound Cobalt pads on all four corners. I'm not crazy enough to run street pads on the track. I moved from Hawk HT-14's (and Hawk HT-10s, depending on the track) to the Cobalts.

The Cobalt pads were used on my (gone) JP club race car: '95 E36M3 chassis w/2.8 motor transplant. Stock brakes (even with the Cobalts, I never had a problem stopping the car). Budget racer with Koni DAs, no aero (), 2990 lbs w/me in it (min weight for that engine/car combo), plain rotor blanks, and NT-01 tires. Pads were bedded in per instructions.

Car ran a 2:04.8 (PFC pads) at my first ever time at T-Hill (bypass). Class winner ran 2:04 flat that day (TC Design prepped car). Oh, found out shortly after that race that my custom tune was hosed. Down 25hp and 15 ft lbs. from what was available with a proper tune. To be honest, the seat to steering wheel interface was the weakest part of the equation...

My main complaints with my experiences with Cobalt pads were poor initial bite, soft pedal feel, poor modulation, and poor release characteristics. Slapped in a set of PFC 01s with the same rotors, etc., and the car was transformed under braking. Never looked back.

Over two decades of turning $$$ into noise on track as a student, instructor, and racer (10 years), my pad company rating for track pads is:

PFC>Hawk>>Cobalt>>>Mintex.

Could there be newer compounds that are better from each vendor? Sure. However, until PFC makes a crappy compound for my use, I'm sticking with them. I've run the following PFC compounds over the years: 90 (on my E30 club race car), 01 (E36 JP), 06 (E46M3), and 08 (E90M3). I haven't tried the 11s yet as the 06's and 08's don't seem to wear out.

Each person can decide for themselves. I can only go by my experiences.

As long as you're on track, life is

[03///m3]

Beautiful brakes! I am contemplating getting a front set (ST40) myself.

[yandy]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

Beautiful brakes! I am contemplating getting a front set (ST40) myself.

thanks! go for it, totally worth the upgrade

[edwinm3]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

Beautiful brakes! I am contemplating getting a front set (ST40) myself.

They look so good I couldn't resist the temptation from looking at the OP's pics, I just ordered a set for mine today, went with the ST-60 front, ST-40 rear on red to go with my MR, I can't wait

[yandy]

Originally Posted by edwinm3

They look so good I couldn't resist the temptation from looking at the OP's pics, I just ordered a set for mine today, went with the ST-60 front, ST-40 rear on red to go with my MR, I can't wait

were you at Homestead this weekend? I passed by, but didn't who you were. There were 3 MR M3s there counting mine. Mine and another in the parking area just spectating it seems, and one in the PITs, running.

When I passed by the pits, there was no-one there. Not sure if you're going to PBIR this weekend, if not will catch you later.