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03-28-2011, 12:20 PM | #155 | |
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Also again the arguement that Gintani is a bad company because of a dyno is just ridiculous. I still have yet to see one thread pop up from you guys going after any intake manufacterer...or exhaust manufacterer for that matter. We all know gains from exhaust and intakes are minimal at best. Edit: Just looking back at the first page...I am sure we could just get the same car out here to with the same modifications from that dyno run. I just think the most simple way to solve this arguement is prove the numbers in that dyno. Last edited by Aries932; 03-28-2011 at 12:26 PM.. |
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03-28-2011, 01:39 PM | #157 | |
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Also, in regards to gains being minimal at best from an exhaust. What type of exhaust are you referring to? I believe that a 'full exhaust' upgrade is one of the best ways to achieve maximum hp gains, next to forced induction. |
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03-28-2011, 02:12 PM | #158 | |||||
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After reading this you should have a good idea of what I am replying to. Apparently I have to put this together for you nice and neat due to you not reading the whole thread first before replying to my post. People are saying that Gintani is a bad company and I think the easiest way to solve this issue is to run another dyno on an M3 with their tune at a 3rd party dyno. I do not see how that would not be the most simple way of solving this issue. If it comes out at way below 325..well then we know that it was false....if it comes out pretty close to 325 well then we know it was correct. Plus we would be able to compare the two dynos. |
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03-28-2011, 02:22 PM | #160 |
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03-28-2011, 02:31 PM | #161 |
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just one dyno perhaps, but on a larger scale the integrity of said company/companies and it's products are also coming into question. As trust can no longer be put in any posted/advertised gains as the methods by which they have been obtained are no longer found to be "questionable".
yes exhausts and intakes are known to make minimal gains despite advertised larger numbers, but that knowledge and understanding came from/along with discussion and independent testing... As always, do your research and make an informed decision for yourself...
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03-28-2011, 02:33 PM | #162 | |
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The Jeremy that responded here is that OE Tuning Jeremy guy? The one who does the tunes right? Is OE Tuning and Gintani the same? Or are they separate? Or are there two Jeremys, one that works at Gintani, and then the other guy that tunes at OE Tuning? Or is there something else that I'm missing beyond all that? Just confused since I saw the response was written by Jeremy, and it'll help me follow all this better. Thanks. |
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03-28-2011, 02:41 PM | #163 | |
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03-28-2011, 03:09 PM | #164 |
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Got it, thanks Jason. I just got confused 'cuz it was Sales@Gintani that responded, so I got a little lost.
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03-28-2011, 04:44 PM | #166 | |
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And, until we have 100% irrefutable evidence that Gintani did manipulate there dynos, there really isn't any other indication that Gintani is a "bad company" as you keep pointing out that the OP is trying to state. ***EDIT: Also, try filtering out the comments about how "bad" a company Gintani or PC is and read the ones that are actually relevant. Then you might, and I stress might, have a clue to what the OP is trying to prove.*** Last edited by pumper206; 03-28-2011 at 05:06 PM.. |
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03-28-2011, 04:46 PM | #167 | |
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the subject of tractive effort is irrelevant and that can also be manipulated unfortunately. Leaving the weather station on doesn't mean you cannot manipulate results. There is still the gear used in question, the inlet temperature probe reading and then how hard the car is strapped down. You know that allowing the car to climb the roller makes MUCH more power than when it's strapped down really hard. I can demonstrate all of the above if you want me to..... in detail. The point is that you can display both wheel and flywheel if you want along with all of he correction factors and this is usually enough to verify results. If an operator wants to cheat they can and you know this as a dyno operator. We as professionals do not allow results to be released from our dyno that compare our tune with our competition. We recently had a quite a few M3's in which we tuned and they were all previously tuned by a another company. We either returned the cars back to stock first for a baseline or we did not release the baseline of the car with the competitions' tune.... not even to the customer. If you follow the same rules then this type of scenario will never arise. |
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03-28-2011, 04:57 PM | #168 | |
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There's really nothing more to say. The information is out there for everyone to see. If OE/Gintani has nothing to add, than its up to the individuals to decide who they want to support. The childish acts of a select few don't even warrant the effort of a response.
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03-28-2011, 05:20 PM | #169 |
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Wasn't there this huge thread calling out Gintani and w/e on M3Forum regarding some kind of fraud etc. Supposedly stole lots of money etc.
I dont wana link because I dont think its allowed on this forum. |
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03-28-2011, 05:32 PM | #171 |
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I think we will be awaiting Gintani's response for quite some time guys...
(and I don't mean that BS response above that is not even addressing the accusations)
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03-28-2011, 05:45 PM | #172 | |
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At the end of the day this is what it comes down to. Most likely they did manipulate the dyno results....the real question is if their tune actually makes that much power. Although you might say the power curve can be all jacked up in reality a tune is not going to completely throw the power curve off. Also if we find out they did manipulate the dyno results I am really not going to be surprised....we all know most aftermarket companies do. Hence why most people rely on their own dyno results not the companies. As for my reply to other people...I absolutely believe that people will read the first page of this thread and be turned off from Gintani. Personally I think it is completely screwed up of people to come into a public forum with no supporting evidence and claim a company is bad. That can seriously hurt the company and in some cases it has put companies out of business. All because some idiots thought they would run their mouth. I promise you that I will reply to anyone who comes into a post that is pretty reasonable speculation and just throws out something along the lines of "a dirty company like..." Right now you only have speculation not proof. |
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03-28-2011, 05:59 PM | #173 | |
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What's screwed up is a company putting out false claims of their product. (again I'm not claiming they did, just replying to your response). If a company gets hurt by putting out false advertising then they brought it on themselves.
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03-28-2011, 06:19 PM | #174 | |
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If it means anything, I do think the OE tune made more power. I've done some additional analysis which leads me to believe this is the most likely scenario: Basically I think *something* odd happened on the original graph which caused a 5-7hp difference between the (custom?) OE and off-the-shelf PC tunes to become exaggerated into 25hp+ </conjecture> |
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03-28-2011, 06:27 PM | #175 | |
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Folks keep stating that this thread is not about whether OE/Gintani are bad companies and only about dyno results...Not true. If OE/Gintani manipulated the dyno in order to create fictitious gains, they ARE bad companies.
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03-28-2011, 07:28 PM | #176 |
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I think most ppl at this point except for the direct offenders and supporters, nobody will go with gintani or OE at this point because their rep is kind of ruined weather the accusations are true or not. If there is a reason to suspect, there is reason to avoid.
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