BMW NA Approves New S65 Engine Replacement Due to Bad Rod Bearings

[850tgul]

The key for me, if I have them done, will be to find a shop that has performed the job with the specific shells and bolts I choose to go and not had an issue. Going to a well regarded shop or engine builder with a good reputation is all well and good but if they don't have experience with this exact job, I'll look elsewhere. I'll be using someone who has done the job multiple times. I'm in MA and it might mean taking my car down to Jersey to have them done. To me, it'd be worth it.

[pbonsalb]

I did mine myself in 2014 and had never done S65 rod bearings before. The job is not difficult or complicated and does not require a high skill set. It requires patience and care and a good torque wrench. Thousands of M3s have had their bearings changed; shops in MA, NH, ME have done it. You don’t need to take your car to NJ, though shops there (and in many other states) have also done the job.

[850tgul]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I did mine myself in 2014 and had never done S65 rod bearings before. The job is not difficult or complicated and does not require a high skill set. It requires patience and care and a good torque wrench. Thousands of M3s have had their bearings changed; shops in MA, NH, ME have done it. You don’t need to take your car to NJ, though shops there (and in many other states) have also done the job.

It's the patience and care I worry about, specifically when it comes to the torquing procedure. I've witnessed my fair share of short cuts taken at many high end, highly regarded shops over the years. I need to do more research on local shops, admittedly. Most of what I have seen have just been broad recommendations like "I bet this shop can do it, give them a call" rather than any reference to a shop having performed the job hundreds of times like that shop in Jersey who posts details on jobs daily.

[pbonsalb]

That is one of the reasons I started doing all my own work. And I enjoy much of it. And I spend the savings on mods.

[BeaterM3]

Originally Posted by 850tgul

The key for me, if I have them done, will be to find a shop that has performed the job with the specific shells and bolts I choose to go and not had an issue. Going to a well regarded shop or engine builder with a good reputation is all well and good but if they don't have experience with this exact job, I'll look elsewhere. I'll be using someone who done the job multiple times. I'm in MA and it might mean taking my car down to Jersey to have them done. To me, it'd be worth it.

Dude go to Eurotech in Natick and talk to Farley. They did my rod bearings and DCT bottom pan. Rod bearings were $1900 or so. VAC coated bearings and ARP bolts. Great shop.

[850tgul]

Originally Posted by revengeismine

Dude go to Eurotech in Natick and talk to Farley. They did my rod bearings and DCT bottom pan. Rod bearings were $1900 or so. VAC coated bearings and ARP bolts. Great shop.

Thx. Eurotech is one of those shops I’ve heard referenced but nice to know they have actually done the job.
How long ago did they do them and how many miles since? Feel free to PM me as to not derail this thread.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by 850tgul

It's the patience and care I worry about, specifically when it comes to the torquing procedure. I've witnessed my fair share of short cuts taken at many high end, highly regarded shops over the years. I need to do more research on local shops, admittedly. Most of what I have seen have just been broad recommendations like "I bet this shop can do it, give them a call" rather than any reference to a shop having performed the job hundreds of times like that shop in Jersey who posts details on jobs daily.

You're the type that's going to feel better if you take it to a shop in Jersey. Also ARP bolts have a much simpler torque procedure than OEM, so less chance of mistake.

The previous owner of my car did BE bearings and ARP bolts himself. He's never done the install before. It had 500 miles on the bearings when I bought it he says, and like 2000 since then (and one oil change). He seemed to know what he's doing and have the proper tools for the job. I could re buy everything and have a shop do it again but chances are it's got good new bearings and a good install so why throw away money on the off chance he made a mistake, he probably installed everything correctly, and if he didn't it probably would have been a problem by now. I don't baby the car, I always rev it to the power band when the car is up to temp.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I did mine myself in 2014 and had never done S65 rod bearings before. The job is not difficult or complicated and does not require a high skill set. It requires patience and care and a good torque wrench. Thousands of M3s have had their bearings changed; shops in MA, NH, ME have done it. You don’t need to take your car to NJ, though shops there (and in many other states) have also done the job.

pbonsalb is exactly right. The job is not difficult, it just takes time and care. Biggest thing is to be clean, be organized and be careful. Bearings are pretty hard to put in wrong if you are paying attention, especially ones with locating tangs. Make sure that the backs of the bearings do not have ANY swarf on them and that the big end bore is free of debris and excess oil.

As others have said, APR bolts are dead easy to torque. Just buy a good torque wrench. I bought a Westward that happened to have been calibrated at 50 ftlb for about $250. Make sure you do not mix up the bearing caps - this is pretty easy if you only do one rod at a time. Put the cap back on the right way - also hard to mess up with fractured rods as it is very obvious. Use the right amount of assembly lube or oil to ensure they do not start up dry. Personally, I hand tighten both rod blots to make sure the cap is on right. Then I walk both bolts up to 50 ftlb over 3 steps. The big test for me is once torqued, grab the bearing cap and make sure it has easy side play. If it does not slide on the crank with very little effort, something is not right. Once I torque each bolt, I put a dab of pink assembly lube on it to mark it as done.

Again, not skilled, difficult or complicated. It just requires some patience, care and the proper tools.

But let me tell you, my arsehole was fully puckered when I pressed start for the first time after changing the bearings... That was ~28,000KM ago and she is still going strong.

Cheers,

[GotV8?]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

pbonsalb is exactly right. The job is not difficult, it just takes time and care. Biggest thing is to be clean, be organized and be careful. Bearings are pretty hard to put in wrong if you are paying attention, especially ones with locating tangs. Make sure that the backs of the bearings do not have ANY swarf on them and that the big end bore is free of debris and excess oil.

As others have said, APR bolts are dead easy to torque. Just buy a good torque wrench. I bought a Westward that happened to have been calibrated at 50 ftlb for about $250. Make sure you do not mix up the bearing caps - this is pretty easy if you only do one rod at a time. Put the cap back on the right way - also hard to mess up with fractured rods as it is very obvious. Use the right amount of assembly lube or oil to ensure they do not start up dry. Personally, I hand tighten both rod blots to make sure the cap is on right. Then I walk both bolts up to 50 ftlb over 3 steps. The big test for me is once torqued, grab the bearing cap and make sure it has easy side play. If it does not slide on the crank with very little effort, something is not right. Once I torque each bolt, I put a dab of pink assembly lube on it to mark it as done.

Again, not skilled, difficult or complicated. It just requires some patience, care and the proper tools.

But let me tell you, my arsehole was fully puckered when I pressed start for the first time after changing the bearings... That was ~28,000KM ago and she is still going strong.

Cheers,

Key word, proper tools and patience...I consider myself a novice in the departments of DIY, I have invested a lot in tools, however, I do have confidence issues in Big jobs, I can do my own maintenance in my garage such as oil change, bleed brakes, spark plugs ..etc. I have done my own install on SS brake lines and Rotors and even test pipes and CatBacks. However, I do not have the self-confidence to tackle the Rod-Bearing job, thank goodness, I do have my pocket book to buy me the peace of mind. Waiting for BE Bearings to fulfill my prepaid order and will simply have a shop experience with this department take my $2,000.00 and Im a Happy Camper. I have great admirations to those who did their own Rod Bearings.... I wish I had the courage to attempt it as well...unfornately, somethings are not for everyone. Thank you for sharing the experience and I truly appreciate the wealth of knowledge and how this FORUM bring us All together collectively. Happy Motoring Everyone.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by GotV8?

Key word, proper tools and patience...I consider myself a novice in the departments of DIY, I have invested a lot in tools, however, I do have confidence issues in Big jobs, I can do my own maintenance in my garage such as oil change, bleed brakes, spark plugs ..etc. I have done my own install on SS brake lines and Rotors and even test pipes and CatBacks. However, I do not have the self-confidence to tackle the Rod-Bearing job, thank goodness, I do have my pocket book to buy me the peace of mind. Waiting for BE Bearings to fulfill my prepaid order and will simply have a shop experience with this department take my $2,000.00 and Im a Happy Camper. I have great admirations to those who did their own Rod Bearings.... I wish I had the courage to attempt it as well...unfornately, somethings are not for everyone. Thank you for sharing the experience and I truly appreciate the wealth of knowledge and how this FORUM bring us All together collectively. Happy Motoring Everyone.

Cash in some frequent flyer miles and get SYT_Shadow to come change them for ya!!

[pbonsalb]

You seem to be into DIYing since you have bought a lot of tools. Just get someone who has done it to help you. Learn and improve your skills. Danny has done about 10. I had a mechanic friend stop by for a few hours while I was doing mine to make sure I was doing it right and then I helped a friend do his.

[kiquos]

Originally Posted by kiquos

Reviving the thread.
I bought an 2011 M3 with 80k miles and had the brgs replaced, it failed the next day at the track, hole on the side of the block.
New bearings ACL w/ 0.0025" clearance and Carrillo rod bolts.
waiting to take engine apart to see the issue? Parts or Labor.
I was told there is no break in period by the bearing manufacturer.

I've seen clearances from .001", 0.0025", and 0.050". What is supposed to be the correct clearance?

SO finally got around to pulling the engine out myself, did not trust the original shop that installed them. It looked like feta cheese inside.
I did get another long block w/ 44k miles and tried to order BE brgs but guess what back ordered till mid March. So I went with VAC. I will do the work myself, measure all bearings, and plastigage too to get a warm fussy!

Check it out here on Youtube link:

The top picture of OEM brgs when they came out at 80k miles.
lower picture is Aftermarket brgs at 1 day of use after rod failure.

My analysis: Under-torque of Rod bearings, letting loose, at least one cap, which destroyed the adjoining one. 2 con-rods went, 3 of bolts found cut and bent. 1 Rod bolt found practically intact, unbent, all thread clean of damage. minor bolt head damage. I suspect this is the bolt that backed out and drop to the bottom of the pan.

Failure happened 1 day after RB replacement, at the track, first session of the day. (Yes engine was nice and warm b4 hand, no there is no break-in period for these bearings) Oil: Amsoil signature 50 weight

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by kiquos

SO finally got around to pulling the engine out myself, did not trust the original shop that installed them. It looked like feta cheese inside.
I did get another long block w/ 44k miles and tried to order BE brgs but guess what back ordered till mid March. So I went with VAC. I will do the work myself, measure all bearings, and plastigage too to get a warm fussy!

Check it out here on Youtube link:

The top picture of OEM brgs when they came out at 80k miles.
lower picture is Aftermarket brgs at 1 day of use after rod failure.

My analysis: Under-torque of Rod bearings, letting loose, at least one cap, which destroyed the adjoining one. 2 con-rods went, 3 of bolts found cut and bent. 1 Rod bolt found practically intact, unbent, all thread clean of damage. minor bolt head damage. I suspect this is the bolt that backed out and drop to the bottom of the pan.

Failure happened 1 day after RB replacement, at the track, first session of the day. (Yes engine was nice and warm b4 hand, no there is no break-in period for these bearings) Oil: Amsoil signature 50 weight

That blows ass man. How the hell do you under torque Carrillo rod bolts? Hope the shop that fucked up ponied up.

[kiquos]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

That blows ass man. How the hell do you under torque Carrillo rod bolts? Hope the shop that fucked up ponied up.

they are not ponying up, only want to be responsible for 1/2 labor and engine, which means they do the labor for free.. Ain't happening, so to court it is.
Carrillo Rods are torqued to 55 ft-lbs, and VAC ARP to 45 ft-lbs. I think they only did it to 45.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by kiquos

they are not ponying up, only want to be responsible for 1/2 labor and engine, which means they do the labor for free.. Ain't happening, so to court it is.
Carrillo Rods are torqued to 55 ft-lbs, and VAC ARP to 45 ft-lbs. I think they only did it to 45.

Oof. That is the shits.

BE ARP are 50ftlb. It would surprise me if 45 would let go that fast if 55 was the spec. 45 is still fairly tight. I wonder if they just forgot to check all of the bolts and had one or two hand tight? Guess it would be hard to know now given the blender it became.

Very costly mistake and I am so very sorry to hear that it happened. Hope that it works out ok.

Cheers,

[ItsGary]

Originally Posted by kiquos

Failure happened 1 day after RB replacement, at the track, first session of the day. (Yes engine was nice and warm b4 hand, no there is no break-in period for these bearings) Oil: Amsoil signature 50 weight

Isn't there a break in period after you do your bearings? A lot of the local shops here recommend driving at least 1500 KMs before getting on it again

[pbonsalb]

None should be necessary. There is supposed to no bearing to crank contact so there is nothing to break in. You could drive gently for a day in case the shop did not put the car back together right - maybe you would catch a problem before it got bad.

[smyles]

Originally Posted by kiquos

Carrillo Rods are torqued to 55 ft-lbs, and VAC ARP to 45 ft-lbs. I think they only did it to 45.

Is it really that much of a difference? I suspect it's within a tolerance of a poorly calibrated wrench, and can't cause an almost immediate catastrophic failure.
I'm not an expert, though.

[Mr. BMW]

Sorry to hear. Yet another reason for me to NOT change my bearings preemptively. I don't care how many of these jobs a shop has done, there's always a chance they could mess something up and this is the result.
Your original bearings looked fine, no?

[ItsGary]

Originally Posted by Mr. BMW

Sorry to hear. Yet another reason for me to NOT change my bearings preemptively. I don't care how many of these jobs a shop has done, there's always a chance they could mess something up and this is the result.
Your original bearings looked fine, no?

He didn't mention the shop, so we don't know how many times they've done the job. Unless I missed that reply.

[kiquos]

@ItsGary: no break-in period, I specifically asked and got an answer via email from Lang Racing.

I did drive the car for a like an hour before hand, no issues, higher revs too.

The problem with running the OEM bearings is that if you bought the car new, and know you let it warm up, then the chances your brgs are good to go is great! But if you bought the car used, and had 2-3 previous owners, you really dont know the conditions of the brgs! Below are the original brgs, and they did not look that bad for 80k miles.

[pbonsalb]

I would say less than 10% of removed bearings look fine. At least 90% of those posted look prematurely worn. At the same time, probably 75% of M3 are still on their original bearings and experiencing no problems so far (a few percent failed and the rest were replaced preventatively). It’s each owner’s decision whether to replace preventatively for around $2k or run the risk of catastrophic engine failure for $10-15k. I changed mine at 60k in 2014 when my extended warranty expired. Mine looked a little worse that ItsGary’s bearings. I had no copper showing in the center of the bearing but I did have copper showing along the parting line and down the sides from the parting line.