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07-24-2008, 07:54 PM | #23 | |
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wow - over $3000!?! If I were you I would recommend a BWM CCA car control, then autocross, then track school. those three might cost you 750 for all three. that leaves money for new tires and BMW will pay for the brake pads. AS was said BMW uses many of the same instructors that instruct for CCA. Its not that hard on the car - the M3 was built for it. Its mostly wear on the tires and brake pads- AND you might as well do it WHILE the car is covered under warranty!
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07-24-2008, 08:03 PM | #24 | |
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However, if you do push the car things will wear out and/or break pretty quickly. Also there is no way I would trust the free BMW brake pads at a track. They will overheat and fade.
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Manual gearboxes, the rotary dial of cars.
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07-24-2008, 08:24 PM | #25 | |
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No, I was making fun you heel-n-toeing in the middle of a turn.... Just practice on every gear shift on the street. But recognize heel-n-toe on the track is different than heel-n-toe on the street because on the track your foot is much deeper into the brake pedal and your need to blip much harder to match revs. There is at least one exercise on heel-n-toe at the 2 day M school.....like I said, it is easy to spot who has been on the track and not on this exercise. The autocross you shift into the right gear and the course is done in one gear. The rest of the time will be SMG on the M5 / M6. You will have fun.
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07-25-2008, 01:58 AM | #26 | |
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I tracked a 2001 M3 for over 7 years NOTHING ever broke at the track. NOTHING ! EVER!
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07-25-2008, 05:03 AM | #27 |
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I just finished the M school recently in Greenville. Its the best 48 hours you will
spend learning about the performance limits of your car. I highly recommend it. The instruction is TOP NOTCH and feedback is very very useful. I am also going to be attending the Advanced M school in August. VERY HIGHLY recommended! |
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07-25-2008, 05:06 AM | #28 | |
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07-25-2008, 09:14 AM | #29 |
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If you've never heel and toe'd before, it might be best to even start with the car off and parked, just to initially get a feel of where your foot will go on the pedals since it will likely feel unnatural initially. Since you're not moving, you can look to see where your foot is best positioned. Then start the engine, and practice the feel of blipping the throttle while still parked. You don't want to be moving with the distraction of trying to figure out where your foot should go/move.
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07-25-2008, 09:40 AM | #30 |
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I'm probably going to get FLAMED for this...but nevertheless, I will go ahead and
say what I think : Manual Transmissions will be a thing of the past - as technology progresses, and we have sophisticated gearboxes the typical foot clutch manuals will go away from high performance cars. Just look at the pricing on some Ferraris and even the BMW M3 with manual tranny compared to DCT tranny. The times for shifting will make people that cling onto manual tranny think again. That aside, you should either goto BMWCCA and drive your own car OR you can goto the BMW M School/Advanced M School and drive their cars. Either way you will learn a lot. You don't require track experience for either. I did not have any track experience before going to the M schools. Good luck and drive in good health. - aLV PS: I would highly recommend you buy the Skip Barber Racing book. It is fantastic! |
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07-25-2008, 10:30 AM | #31 |
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+1...........just came abck from the two day performance school and I was blown away by how well run it was and how professional and competant the instructors were. Will be going back for M-School next summer
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07-26-2008, 06:31 AM | #32 |
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thanks for all the responses I signed up for BMWCCA Pocono North Course Driver School on Oct 11-12 to get some training before M School in Nov. Anyone else on here going to Pocono Raceway then?
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07-26-2008, 07:45 AM | #33 |
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Definitely start with at least one CCA car control clinic. Then you can sign up for lapping days. I have attended 2 car control clinics and 2 sessions at the track. The learning curve is steep so I would get some skills down prior to spending the $3000.
The car control clinics have a class associated with them. They will inform you that to do heel and toe you need to practice in every day driving for a long time before it would make sense to try it on the track. You certainly don't won't to be concentrating on that with the myriad of other things on your mind. As far as beating up your car goes, I guess I could argue that either way. But why own these cars if we can't use them occasionally. My track day last Weds use about 1/5 of my tires, so that could get expensive. But it is a hell of a lot of fun and you don't have to be the best to enjoy it.
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07-26-2008, 09:57 AM | #34 | |
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07-26-2008, 10:04 AM | #35 | |
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Sorry Steve, your logic is escaping me. You may lack the confidence of going on the track because you have not been there before yet the first time you want to do it is with your own car with decent instruction from BMW CCA? You will get excellent instruction at M School, lots of seat time, you will get everything from basic car control to advanced open lapping in BMW's own cars. The only exercise that may scare seems to be the heel-n-toe, don't worry about it, most people suck. You will be a much better driver after M school than out of a CCA event, by a long stretch. BTW, one of my classmates crashed and wrecked a M5, after he cleared medical, he went out in the next session.
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07-26-2008, 10:46 AM | #36 | |
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07-26-2008, 02:00 PM | #37 |
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question -- do you have the choice of taking M school in a MT car or a DCT car?
I'd def be interested in doing it, but as a DCT owner thats never used a MT and has no intention of learning, I really don't see the purpose of the MT stuff. |
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07-26-2008, 04:05 PM | #38 |
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I would not disagree that one M school can teach you more than a single CCA event. But, if one spends the equivalent $3200 on multiple CCA events (probably a car control clinic plus 5-7 HPDE weekends plus gas/hotel/etc), I think that one will probably actually learn more via the multiple CCA schools. Over that period someone could probably develop from a complete novice to a mid/high intermediate driver in the CCA program. Just two days of M school I couldn't see someone getting much past the novice level, maybe at best to low intermediate. It's all about seat time and experience to develop track skills.
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07-26-2008, 05:29 PM | #39 | |
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Are you making a quality vs. quantity statement? If our friend Steve is a noob at the track, I would almost argue exclusively for the M School. These are the informative days. There is also theory at M School. No one doubts the value of the CCA events but M School is a premier driving school run by pros. Plus, it is one helluva experience too.
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07-26-2008, 05:36 PM | #40 |
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I do. The value of CCA events is entirely dependant on getting a good instructor. That doesn't always happen. If you draw a bad one not only will you not have a good time, what you learn may be outright wrong
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07-26-2008, 06:12 PM | #41 |
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this has been very informative for me - I can see the value in both, and I want to do both. I will do the CCA Pocono in Oct and M School in Nov and report back my experiences. Thanks again
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07-26-2008, 06:14 PM | #42 |
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07-26-2008, 06:28 PM | #43 |
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here`s a link:
http://www.delvalbmwcca.org/ click on events. There`s also one in Jersey in August but it`s full already. |
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07-27-2008, 09:31 AM | #44 |
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Sort of - more like time vs. money. On time, over just 2 days M school certainly comes out ahead, but on dollars, less expensive but many more CCA events will come out ahead, much ahead in my opinion.
Not questioning whatsoever about the quality of M school and experience. It's just that M school is expensive. I'm not saying don't go to M school, I'm just saying that as an educational value there are alternatives to consider. For Steve, I think you're on the right track, doing some other events first to get the basics. As others have said, the learning curve is steep, so if you have some basics first I think you'll maximize the value of M school as opposed to starting directly with M school. If you don't even know how to "walk" yet, better to hold off on paying for the expensive "running coach" until after you learn to walk first.
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