Man Down! 2008 M3 Rod Bearing Failed

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

So in this case, what do you think the best possible outcome would be?

Should I just do the rod bearings, or should I just gamble on the used engine "as is"?

Engine does come with a one year warranty... I would just hate to spin another rod bearing on the second engine...

I would do the rod bearings while it's on a stand. I wouldn't hesitate to do that. For now, I'd use these rod bearings (see link). Later this year, we will have another set of rod bearings that fixes the clearances...but that doesn't help you right now. So for now, I would recommend to use these.

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...ine-p2932.aspx

[ae82]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Outside looking in- I can see your point... However, when you have the dealership holding records of an impeccable service history telling BMW NA that the car is pristine and service records exceed the factory intervals, no mods, never raced, no miss shifts, oil level never lower than 1/2 quart, red line never exceeded, correct oil used, and only serviced by BMW dealerships for 56k miles...

Explain how that has anything to do with me not being the original owner?

I get the fact that the car is over 6 years old and if it were any other circumstance than this I would agree with you; but in this case, I really feel like BMW North America shut the door on not only one of their biggest fans, but a long time standing customer who has owned the last 3 generations of the BMW M3...

All of this, plus the fact that they know there are major issues with the rod bearings on the E9x M3's...

Very disappointed in their response...

I moved to states last year from Turkey. And I have been looking for E92 M3s for a couple of months. I don't know much about dealer practices in US. But I find BMW NA's denial of doing the right thing very absurd. Back in Turkey I know for a fact that German brands (BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW) are a lot more helpful than US in similar situation. At least they would cover 70-80% percentage of new engine cost. (I think knowing some people from dealers also goes long way).

What is the point for a customer to take a car to authorised dealer to get it fixed and maintained if they won't take care of it in case of a major failure like this on a stock car.

I think if OP didn't have 3rd party maintenance insurance it could be different. Because they know you are their problem. They will do anything to avoid doing the right thing until they are cornered. I can't say what I would do but I wouldn't accept a used engine probably.

If you have the 'We would help if you original owner' in some sort of written form I would definitely use it against them. That's the key here.

I hope this ends the best way possible and sooner than later.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Should I just do the rod bearings, or should I just gamble on the used engine "as is"? Engine does come with a one year warranty.

Seems like the logical thing would be to run the car with the replacement engine with its warranty as is for a year. Then replace the bearings if you still owned the car and still wanted to.

[whats77inaname]

Absolutely absurd. Cases like this is why the class action needs to move forward.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Am I the only one not surprised that a manufacturer refuses to throw a new engine at a 7 year car, not owned by the original purchaser, not bought from one of their official dealers and without that manufacturers extended warranty?
Is there a manufacturer who routinely does that?

+1

Originally Posted by regular guy

Let me take a stab at this. BMW calls this a "good will gesture" by replacing the engine long after warranty expires. The good will is intended to placate the customer and keep them loyal BMW customers. The good will isn't directed at the car. But you're not a BMW customer because you're not going to BMW to buy your cars. Therefore they don't really have an incentive to keep you happy because you're not their customer.

At least that's how I see it from their point of view. But I get what you're saying also.

+2

Like Philippe said, this that great German lottery. That's why I will hang on to my car as long as possible because I owned it from new. Buying this car second hand is not an option for me especially for /// cars.

OP said that the car was never tracked ... what's proof? I have done track events, at least a couple over the eight years of ownership, but no one will know it, if I don't disclose.

Just like the extended warranty on cars, the car adverts are not worth the space or paper they are written on.

My 2c.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by regular guy

Let me take a stab at this. BMW calls this a "good will gesture" by replacing the engine long after warranty expires. The good will is intended to placate the customer and keep them loyal BMW customers. The good will isn't directed at the car. But you're not a BMW customer because you're not going to BMW to buy your cars. Therefore they don't really have an incentive to keep you happy because you're not their customer.

At least that's how I see it from their point of view. But I get what you're saying also.

I know... I know... I get it... But I don't like it... There's just no chivalry anymore in today's auto manufacturers...

Every E92 M3 on the road is an advertisement of BMW's craftsmanship and engineering; aren't we all customers- even for those of us who did not buy our cars from the factory... What ever happened brand loyalty here?

I may not be the first owner who financed or leased a $74k M3 for 2-5 years, but I am the guy who shelled out $37k cash as a second owner so that the first owner could buy the new F80 M4...

I did the research before I bought this car and considered the likelihood that I would get a bearing failure to be very low... Not the case... I am also seeing the number of failures rapidly rise as these engines crest into the 50-100k mile range; albeit the number of failures are still in the 1-2 % range- but growing fast...

I mean if BMW wants to build M cars that barely last through the warranty period, then what incentive does that give people to become first owners again... The rod bearing dilemma goes much further than 1st owners... If the car isn't worth anything substantial by the time its paid off (because it has a bad reputation), then it is most likely going to detour customers from coming back to by another new M car...

Each day on the commute to work, I can count at least 5-6 or more sometimes E36 & E46 M3's on the road... I live in Pensacola, FL a small beach town so there are even fewer here, and I still see a ton of them... E46 & E36 M3's are everywhere and running strong, many of them with a shitload of miles on them. They are like the "honda accord" of supercars now! In my opinion well built cars.. WTF happened!

I hope BMW "M" get's there shit together because the last 10 years of production has just simply tarnished their reputation with me...

[admranger]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

I live in Pensacola, FL a small beach town so there are even fewer here, and I still see a ton of them... E46 & E36 M3's are everywhere and running strong, many of them with a shitload of miles on them. They are like the "honda accord" of supercars now! In my opinion well built cars.. WTF happened!

If it'll make you feel better, head on over to m3forum.net and you'll see the woes of the E46M3 owner: vanos, rear subframe, rod bearings (!), etc., etc. It is by no means a maintenance free car at all...

The rod bearing issues on the S65 have me concerned too, even though I have one of the later E90M3s. This seems so hauntingly familiar to the S54, not to mention the nikasil issues of the early 3.0 and 4.0 V-8's from the mid-1990's (yep, had a 1994 530i (5-speed manual, of course) with the nikasil issue...

I'm disappointed BMW hasn't offered a 6yr, 100k warranty on our engines given the failure rates seen. It'd be the decent thing to do...

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by admranger

If it'll make you feel better, head on over to m3forum.net and you'll see the woes of the E46M3 owner: vanos, rear subframe, rod bearings (!), etc., etc. It is by no means a maintenance free car at all...

The rod bearing issues on the S65 have me concerned too, even though I have one of the later E90M3s. This seems so hauntingly familiar to the S54, not to mention the nikasil issues of the early 3.0 and 4.0 V-8's from the mid-1990's (yep, had a 1994 530i (5-speed manual, of course) with the nikasil issue...

I'm disappointed BMW hasn't offered a 6yr, 100k warranty on our engines given the failure rates seen. It'd be the decent thing to do...

I always knew there vanos and rear subframe issues with the E46 M3, but I always just attributed those cars to owners that abused them... I bought my E46 M3 with 19k miles on it in 2004 and I drove it for ten years and put 180k miles on it... I babied that car, and I never had to repair anything that was not expected to be done throughout the entire ownership.... I put 210k miles on my E36 M3 prior to that with no major issues...

I guess it's just a gamble sometimes... You win some, you lose some...

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

I always knew there vanos and rear subframe issues with the E46 M3, but I always just attributed those cars to owners that abused them... I bought my E46 M3 with 19k miles on it in 2004 and I drove it for ten years and put 180k miles on it... I babied that car, and I never had to repair anything that was not expected to be done throughout the entire ownership.... I put 210k miles on my E36 M3 prior to that with no major issues...

I guess it's just a gamble sometimes... You win some, you lose some...

I just hope this car will give you equal amount of driving please despite this early hiccup. Good luck!

[SenorFunkyPants]

I pay ~$1000 a year for a BMW extended warranty.
I get to drive a brilliant car and don't have to fret about any problems...worth every penny.

[javarithms]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I pay ~$1000 a year for a BMW extended warranty.
I get to drive a brilliant car and don't have to fret about any problems...worth every penny.

You better hope if/when the bearing failure happens it doesn't seize up your engine while you're traveling speeds of > 60 mph. I'm guessing your extended warranty does not extend to you

[IIAp3x]

Update:

Sandy Sansing BMW called me this afternoon and told me that they are trying to negotiate with my warranty company on a lower price now for a new engine... They have dropped their price for the parts down to $15k and they are going to try to present a substantially lower price in labor to see if they can get the warranty company to agree... Their original parts price was $20k...

What is the standard labor hours for an engine swap? 20-25?

I think their labor rates are $90 per hour...

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I pay ~$1000 a year for a BMW extended warranty.
I get to drive a brilliant car and don't have to fret about any problems...worth every penny.

My next car will have this for sure!

[Iyzmi]

How much is the used engine the warranty company wants to use?

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Update:

Sandy Sansing BMW called me this afternoon and told me that they are trying to negotiate with my warranty company on a lower price now for a new engine... They have dropped their price for the parts down to $15k and they are going to try to present a substantially lower price in labor to see if they can get the warranty company to agree... Their original parts price was $20k...

What is the standard labor hours for an engine swap? 20-25?

I think their labor rates are $90 per hour...

A competent shop can remove the old engine in about 4 hours. Putting it back in will take 8-12 hours.

[Stainless 45]

Originally Posted by regular guy

I would do the rod bearings while it's on a stand. I wouldn't hesitate to do that. For now, I'd use these rod bearings (see link). Later this year, we will have another set of rod bearings that fixes the clearances...but that doesn't help you right now. So for now, I would recommend to use these.

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac...ine-p2932.aspx

Not to thread-jack, but I'm surprised to hear you recommend the coated bearings, unless it was by mistake. Don't they tighten the already too-tight clearances in some cases? I would think the WPC treated ones would be the better substitute.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Stainless 45

Not to thread-jack, but I'm surprised to hear you recommend the coated bearings, unless it was by mistake. Don't they tighten the already too-tight clearances in some cases? I would think the WPC treated ones would be the better substitute.

These are a completely new bearing designed by Clevite. They are a very nice lead-copper design with Calico coating. According to VAC, they maintain factory clearance AFTER the coating process. I've already measured them and found they slightly increase the clearance after the coating. Until the new Clevite extra clearance bearings are available, this what I would be using, even over WPC.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

How much is the used engine the warranty company wants to use?

The warranty company had originally agreed to spend a total of $15,885, which included the used engine (warranty company will provide engine) plus Sandy Sansing BMW's labor cost to swap everything...

Total cost $15,885.00

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

How much is the used engine the warranty company wants to use?

I am assuming the engine cost is probably around $10-12K...

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

I am assuming the engine cost is probably around $10-12K...

A used engine with 44000 miles is probably closer to $6k to $8k.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by regular guy

A used engine with 44000 miles is probably closer to $6k to $8k.

Wow that is cheap!

Before I made enough money to buy European sport cars, I used to build race cars out of Mazda Miatas... Typically big turbo on top of built motors..

Anyways, I always used car-part.com to find my engines... Salvage/parts exchange site...

I was looking on there just to get an idea of used s65 engines, and most of the lower mileage engines were $10-12k...

Now I am thinking that warranty companies must have better connections in engine suppliers than the average joe?

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Wow that is cheap!

Before I made enough money to buy European sport cars, I used to build race cars out of Mazda Miatas... Typically big turbo on top of built motors..

Anyways, I always used car-part.com to find my engines... Salvage/parts exchange site...

I was looking on there just to get an idea of used s65 engines, and most of the lower mileage engines were $10-12k...

Now I am thinking that warranty companies must have better connections in engine suppliers than the average joe?

I guarantee the insurance companies have better connections and don't pay those prices. About a month ago, I picked up a rather low mileage S65 for $4k but needed rod bearings replaced. Since I was planning to do it anyways, I figured it was a bargain and I bought it. A buddy of mine picked up a long block with 32k miles or so in perfectly running condition, with wiring harnesses, and plenum for $4.5k. Only catch: the guy in Canada won't ship. Luckily my friend was in Canada and his brother lived near the salvage yard selling it. I heard of another sleeper eBay auction -- the ones nobody watches in the middle of the night -- S65 go for $4k or so; but I honestly don't remember the details as it went in one ear and out the other. So they can be had for good prices if you know where to find them.