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      05-23-2007, 02:21 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
> As a side note, may I ask you if you find the evidence from the Quran interesting at all?

I find the passion with which you talk about it interesting.

I think it's unlikely I'll ever become a muslim though.

> Have you looked at the website?

Yes, but the images —*which I presume contain the content you talk about — don't load.

Oh, thats sad to hear. You know I always pray to Allah to bring more people to Islam, because he chooses to guide and to not guide people. I can only keep answering your questions and give you every piece of information you want about Islam. But I am very confident if you knew Islam inside out you would infact accept it, its very hard to explain...

Oh, well at the side there is a menu with headings and subheadings. Each subheading will present a piece of evidence from the Quran and back it up with science. I'll save all the text and upload it as a text document for you, you dont need to read it all if you dont want, but I'll give you it anyway...
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      05-23-2007, 05:20 PM   #90
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Astronomy-

Big bang theory
Black holes
Balanced Universe
Dark Matter
expanding Universe
everything is in motion
initial gaseous matter
interstellar matter
plurality of earths
The moon's orbit
Motion of the earth
Motion of all planets
spherical shape of the earth
Universe full of paths and orbits

Biology-

Ablution
Advancing Hearing over sighting
contraction of chests
Creation of man from clay
every living thing made from water
Healing properties of honey
Function of the frontal lobes
Fasting
Dangers of eating pork
Dangers of eating dead
Dangers of drinking blood

Botany-
Chlorophyll
Plants made in pairs

Geology-

Mountains are like pegs
Function of the mountains
Faults on earth surface

Geography-

sky Protective roof
atmospheric layers
returning Atmosphere
water cycle
Formation of petroleum
Lowest part on Earth Surface
Comets of ice

Oceonology-


Internal Waves
Darkness In The Depths Of The Ocean

Physics-

Atomic Energy and fission
Atom can be sub-divided
Relativity of time
Reducing earth from its sides

Zoology-

Animals And Birds Live In Communities
Worker Bee Is Female


This is all the titles from the "Quran and Science" section, there are also a "Quran and History" and "Predictions" sections. Theres too much to post, so just let me know what you want to see (if you want to see any of it)...
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      05-23-2007, 07:09 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Oh, thats sad to hear. You know I always pray to Allah to bring more people to Islam, because he chooses to guide and to not guide people. I can only keep answering your questions and give you every piece of information you want about Islam. But I am very confident if you knew Islam inside out you would infact accept it, its very hard to explain...


Well.. Islam is clamied by some independent sources to be the worlds fastest growing religion.


disclamer: I have no good reliable sources of the above claim, Just some articles from some decent but not always accurate news sources.
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      05-24-2007, 02:58 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmaash View Post


Well.. Islam is clamied by some independent sources to be the worlds fastest growing religion.


disclamer: I have no good reliable sources of the above claim, Just some articles from some decent but not always accurate news sources.
I'm sure you are correct. I hear that all the time....
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      05-24-2007, 09:14 AM   #93
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Max, given what you've stated thus far, I'm curious what your belief is about how the world started and how we've come to exist.
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      05-24-2007, 09:35 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaneer View Post
Max, given what you've stated thus far, I'm curious what your belief is about how the world started and how we've come to exist.
Me too
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      05-24-2007, 01:59 PM   #95
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> Max, given what you've stated thus far, I'm curious what your belief is about how the world started and how we've come to exist.

Basically: Exploding singularity hurling mass out in all directions 13.7 million years ago (big bang) followed by matter clumping together to form galaxies, stars, planets followed by primordial ooze and natural selection/ evolution (Darwin)
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      05-24-2007, 03:19 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
> Max, given what you've stated thus far, I'm curious what your belief is about how the world started and how we've come to exist.

Basically: Exploding singularity hurling mass out in all directions 13.7 million years ago (big bang) followed by matter clumping together to form galaxies, stars, planets followed by primordial ooze and natural selection/ evolution (Darwin)
Okay then I would ask you what existed before 13.7 millions years ago? did other universes exist? when was the beginning of time? how did all of this exist without some being of inteligence? (Allah) Who created the concept of life in plants, animals, matter, etc. ?
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      05-24-2007, 03:39 PM   #97
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Here is what we muslims believe the beginning of the Earth to be:

Quran and the Beginning of the Universe

The science of modern cosmology clearly indicates that at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of 'smoke' (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition). This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology.

Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that 'smoke'. The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that 'smoke' material.

Scanning the skies for galaxies Canadian astronomer Paul Hickson and colleagues identified some 100 compact groups of galaxies, now appropriately called Hickson Compact Groups HCGs. With only a few member galaxies per group, HCGs are much smaller than the immense clusters of galaxies which lurk in the cosmos, but like the large galaxy clusters, some HCGs seem to be filled with hot, x-ray emitting gas. In fact, groups of galaxies like HCGs may be the building blocks of the large clusters.
-- Astronomy Picture of the Day: 2001 March 9 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010309.html

Then He turned to the heavens when it was smoke...
Quran 41:11 -


Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same 'smoke' we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous 'smoke', they formed and separated from each other.

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..
Quran 21:30 -


Professor Alfred Kroner is one of the world's well-known geologists. He is a Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, in Germany. He stated -

"Thinking where Muhammad came from, I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advance technological methods that this is the case."

He also stated -

"Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin."
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      05-25-2007, 12:55 AM   #98
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> Okay then I would ask you what existed before 13.7 millions years ago?

A singularity.

> did other universes exist?

Probably. It's also likely there's more than one universe, but there's no evidence for either assumption.

> when was the beginning of time?

Around 13.7 million years ago. Time is relative in this universe an it began when this universe began.

What passed before didn't have time because of the singularity.

> how did all of this exist without some being of inteligence?

You don't need intelligence for the basic building blocks, not for the way they are assembled.

> who created the concept of life in plants, animals, matter, etc. ?

It does not need creation. These are inevitable because of the rules of this universe.

If you have gravity as a rule, matter clumps together to form galaxies and planets and the sun. The basic building blocks of the universe can spontaneously combine to form living cells, which can evolve into man.
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      05-25-2007, 03:34 AM   #99
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A singularity

Then how did this singularity come to exist ?

Probably. It's also likely there's more than one universe, but there's no evidence for either assumption.

We muslims believe Allah may or may not have created other universes. He has not revealed this to us. I personally presume from the way Allah speaks to us that he did not. But we will find out one day (day of ressurection).

Around 13.7 million years ago. Time is relative in this universe an it began when this universe began.

Islam understands time, infact Allah alone understands everything in the Universe. Check my next posts...

What passed before didn't have time because of the singularity.

This cannot be, either way you look at it, there has to be a beginning of everything (except Allah). How can even this singularity come to exist? an accident? but how can this accident even occur when nothing exists?

You don't need intelligence for the basic building blocks, not for the way they are assembled.


Yes you do, how can the building blocks and rules of the universe come to exist? c'mon, by accident? randomly?

It does not need creation. These are inevitable because of the rules of this universe.

If you have gravity as a rule, matter clumps together to form galaxies and planets and the sun. The basic building blocks of the universe can spontaneously combine to form living cells, which can evolve into man.


Who created the building blocks? Who created the laws of physics? Who created gravity? So far you have no proof of this, but I have given proof from the Quran and modern science that only Allah created all of this and he speaks about it in the Quran. Check the website I told you. Allah speaks about black holes etc. Everything you can think of must have a creator. Do you see what is happening? everything you say, I would still have the question "how did that happen or come to exist?"
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      05-25-2007, 03:37 AM   #100
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He Who created the seven heavens in layers. You will not find any discrepancy in the creation of the All-Merciful. Look again-do you see any gaps? Then look again and again. Your sight will return to you dazzled and exhausted!
{Quran, 67:3-4}


The billions of stars and galaxies in the universe move in perfectly in the paths set out for them. Sometimes, galaxies containing 200 or 300 billion stars move across each others' paths. Stars, planets, galaxies of billions or trillions of tons, and move through space at extraordinary speeds. Yet amazingly, no collisions take place that might damage the great order in the universe. This miracle is something over which all of us should reflect.

There is no doubt that there is a very high risk of collisions in such a complicated and fast-moving system. Yet nothing of the sort actually happens and we continue with our lives in complete safety. That is because universe is completely balanced.

And the sky HE (Allah) raised and set the balance
[Al-Quran 55:7]


And all stars are made under mathematical calculations.

The sun and the moon (move) under a mathematical calculation.
[Al-Quran 55:5]


It is for this reason that, as stated above in the verse, there is no "discrepancy" in the system. After great progress of science we know much about universe and its perfect design but Allah (God) WHO made this universe has been told us 1400 years ago in QURAN.
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      05-25-2007, 03:40 AM   #101
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They ask you to hasten the punishment. God will not break His promise. A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count.
[Al-Quran, 22:47]


He directs the whole affair from heaven to earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a Day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure.
[Al-Quran, 32:5]


The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day whose length is fifty thousand years.
[Al-Quran, 70:4]



Explanation

From the above verses we observed that the time of the earth is very fast than the time of the space. This is what the science says, lets see.

Scientific Research

The relativity of the time is a scientific fact. (1)

Time does go SLOWER for an astronaut in space than on Earth.(2)

Example:

If one of a pair of twin sisters flies in space at great speed, at her return to Earth she’ll be younger than her sister who stayed there.

For example, if one sister flies into space for 5 years and reaches 99.5% of the speed of light (which is 185,400 miles per second or 298,500 kilometers per second) going out and then again on the return leg, she’ll find her Earth-bound sister aged by 50 years while for her, just 5 years have gone by. In other words, they are now 45 years apart in age!

The fact that the relativity of time is so clearly mentioned in the Quran, is another evidence that it is Allah's book.
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      05-25-2007, 03:42 AM   #102
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What Is A Black Hole?

"Black Holes" name first comes from John Wheeler in 1969 (1)

"An object whose gravity is so strong that the escape velocity exceeds the speed of light is a black hole." (2)

Black Holes Mention In The Quran


"Can you understand Tarik? It is a star which Pierces dark"
[Al-Quran, 86:2,3]



Please Read the Explanation:

The Holy Quran defines "Tarik" with the Arabic word 'saqib' (see the ayah). The word 'Saqib' is derived from Arabic root word 'saqaba'. In Arabic dictionary (lughta-ul-Quran) saqaba means pierces dark i.e. to make a hole through something or penetrate. Therefore, the Quran says that Tarik is a star which is like a hole in it (saqib).

Holy Quran calls black holes "Tarik". If you think carefully, you can understand the universe secrets existing in The Holy Quran.
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      05-25-2007, 03:50 AM   #103
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In this century, the discovery that the Universe is expanding has produced a revolution in human thought about the Cosmos. American astronomer Edwin Hubble played a major role in this profound discovery.(1)

Our space is expanding faster than light.(2)

"We created the universe with our force and we are expanding it"
{Al-Quran 51:47}


This is very clear verse to prove the truth of Quran.
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      05-25-2007, 03:53 AM   #104
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Do you see that Allah ALONE has full knowledge of everything in the universe? I could go on forever. And AGAIN, I ask you how a man - our Holy Prophet Muhammed (Pbuh) could even guess all of this? Please answer this question, PLEASE! Our Holy Prophet was uneducated and illiterate! how can he even SPEAK of such things? Please answer this! I really wanna know!
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      05-25-2007, 11:22 AM   #105
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> Then how did this singularity come to exist ?

Good question. I don't know.
That's what I meant when I said my (non-)religion has only the one question.

If you say Allah created the singularity, then you suddenly have 5 questions instead of one.

> This cannot be, either way you look at it, there has to be a beginning of everything (except Allah).

Why do you except Allah? Why do you accept that Allah has existed forever but the singularity cannot have?

> how can the building blocks and rules of the universe come to exist? c'mon, by accident? randomly?

You need to read up on string theory, but the short answer is no accident and yes random.

http://www.superstringtheory.com/basics/index.html

> Everything you can think of must have a creator.

No, not really.

> Yet amazingly, no collisions take place that might damage the great order in the universe

Eeeh...
http://hubblesite.org/explore_astron...mic_collision/

Of course, since the universe is expanding, it's unlikely to have the kind of collisions you could get if the universe was contracting (Which it may or may not do in the future)


> The fact that the relativity of time is so clearly mentioned in the Quran, is another evidence that it is Allah's book.

I'm sorry, but E=MCˆ2 is the way to clearly mention the relativity of time. The verses you quote are so general they can apply to any number of events/effects, including stasis.

Plus, a true god would be able to overcome something as simple as general relativity, right?

> Can you understand Tarik? It is a star which Pierces dark

A black hole pierces nothing.

> "We created the universe with our force and we are expanding it"

Fair enough. This is the first quote you've given me that is specific enough to be tested to reality.

Is it an exact translation or is 'universe' in the original text more like 'following'?

> Our Holy Prophet was uneducated and illiterate! how can he even SPEAK of such things? Please answer this! I really wanna know!

In the same way false prophets and seers speak of these things.
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      05-25-2007, 01:01 PM   #106
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If you say Allah created the singularity, then you suddenly have 5 questions instead of one.

I see exactly what you mean, that is why the Quran is SO full of science. It's like challenging Allah to prove he's god and he is the sole creator of everything and he has no creator. Well, Allah demonstrates his full knowledge of the universe in the Quran by revealing it to his beloved Propthet. I repeat our Holy Prophet (pbuh) was uneducated and illiterate so how could he even possibly invent all this? could he guess all of it? or course not. Therefore, since Allah has proved he alone knows all the secrets of the universe, we can trust him when he says HE is god.

You need to read up on string theory, but the short answer is no accident and yes random.

Okay supposing it wasnt an accident. Then I would say how could it be random? because the main principle is, matter cannot just appear from nothingness! and so far noone has proved that things can just appear randomly! Allah says that he created the Earth and Heaven together, from smoke, and then seperated them. Scientists have proven that the Earth used to be smoke! I will post it in my next post. So can we not place trust in Allah and his messenger if they know that much, at least 1400 years ago?

Of course, since the universe is expanding, it's unlikely to have the kind of collisions you could get if the universe was contracting (Which it may or may not do in the future)

Yes, it is expanding and it may be the reason there are no collisions, but even you stated there was a randomness about the beginning of the universe, so if it was random why are there not random collisions which could wipe us out?

I'm sorry, but E=MCˆ2 is the way to clearly mention the relativity of time. The verses you quote are so general they can apply to any number of events/effects, including stasis.

I have studied E=mc^2 and nuclear fission/fusion etc. We may have done the calculations etc. but Allah alone knows the full nature of the universe. I will post information about nuclear fission in the Quran.

A black hole pierces nothing.

In Arabic dictionary (lughta-ul-Quran) saqaba means pierces dark i.e. to make a hole through something or penetrate. Therefore, the Quran says that Tarik is a star which is like a hole in it (saqib).
Perhaps you did not read that part of the explanation...

Fair enough. This is the first quote you've given me that is specific enough to be tested to reality.

So all the others are mere coincidences? of course not, how can all of these examples be coincidences that 1400 years ago a man guessed all that, even with the best of education at the time, that is not possible....


In the same way false prophets and seers speak of these things.

That is not true at all. Our prophet was UNEDUCATED and could not read or write. But he states all these scientific facts not known to us at the time, into a book which Allah revealed to him. This is lies? of course not. I am going to keep posting evidence. Surely you cannot say "coincidence" or "vague" to all of it. And believe me, if your heart is closed you will not see the truth in the words I show you from the Quran, but you will instead try and find ways out of it because it does not satisfy the way your mind works...
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      05-25-2007, 01:03 PM   #107
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Quran and the Beginning of the Universe


The science of modern cosmology clearly indicates that at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of 'smoke' (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition). This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology.

Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that 'smoke'. The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that 'smoke' material.

Scanning the skies for galaxies Canadian astronomer Paul Hickson and colleagues identified some 100 compact groups of galaxies, now appropriately called Hickson Compact Groups HCGs. With only a few member galaxies per group, HCGs are much smaller than the immense clusters of galaxies which lurk in the cosmos, but like the large galaxy clusters, some HCGs seem to be filled with hot, x-ray emitting gas. In fact, groups of galaxies like HCGs may be the building blocks of the large clusters.
-- Astronomy Picture of the Day: 2001 March 9 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010309.html

Then He turned to the heavens when it was smoke...
Quran 41:11 -


Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same 'smoke' we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous 'smoke', they formed and separated from each other.

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..
Quran 21:30 -


Professor Alfred Kroner is one of the world's well-known geologists. He is a Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, in Germany. He stated -

"Thinking where Muhammad came from, I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advance technological methods that this is the case."

He also stated -

"Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin."

Therefore I ask how can everything come from nothingness? everything we know IS matter. Our bodys, animals, plants, other planets, the whole UNIVERSE is made up from matter. so how can this matter come to exist in the first place. It cannot simply appear. To this date, Islam is the only acceptable explanation in my opinion for the beginning of time. So far everything is backed up by science as I have shown, whereas, other religious scriptures are flawed and inaccurate. And people that are of no religion at all, fail to satisfy my questions since noone really explains to me how matter can exist from nothing without there being and intelligent being to begin with (Allah)
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      05-25-2007, 01:03 PM   #108
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Nuclear Fission

Allah splits the seed and nawa. He brings forth the living from the dead, and produces the dead out of the living. That is Allah, so how are you misguided?

[Al-Quran, 6:95]


In the above verse an-nawa means "nucleus" according to Arabic dictionary (Al-qamoos-ul-jadeed). The meaning of an-nawa is also "centre". Allah says in the above verse that He splits nucleus. lets examine it in the light of science.

Scientific Research

The word fission means to split apart. An atom's nucleus can be split apart. When this is done, a tremendous amount of energy is released.(1)

In general fission is a splitting or breaking up into parts.(2)

Bringing Forth the living out of the dead and dead out of the living

The word used in the above verse for "living" is Al-hayya which also means active, energetic or energy. So we can take the meaning of Al-Hayya, "Energy".

Now according to the above meaning it will mean that Allah brings forth "energy" from "dead".

Today we know that energy produce from matter. So the word dead probably refer to "matter". lets read this verse with this translation:

Allah splits the seed and nucleus. He brings forth the energy from the matter, and produces the matter out of the energy. That is Allah, so how are you misguided?

[Al-Quran, 6:95]


The words in Surat al-An`am 95 are very wise in terms of their meanings. The phenomena described in this verse bear a very close resemblance to the splitting of the atom's nucleus in order to obtain atomic energy. The verse may therefore be a reference to nuclear fission, which was only made possible by twentieth-century technology. (Allah knows best.)
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      05-25-2007, 01:05 PM   #109
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Everything is in motion


Newton’s 3 laws of motion constitute a simple, powerful theory of motion of all objects. (1)

Newton Proposed a theory that every thing in the universe is in motion. This is what Quran said 1400 years ago.

Whatever is in the heavens and the earth has glorified Allah. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.

[Al-Quran 59:1]


Explanation:

Allah said in the glorious Quran that every thing in the heavens and in the earth do "sabaha" which means according to Arabic dictionary (Lughat-ul-Quran) "To run" or "to float" It used in the meaning of something in motion. Glorified is one of the meaning of the root word "sabaha". If you use the word for a man on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would mean he is walking or running. If you use the word for a man in water it would not mean that he is floating but would mean that he is swimming. Here this word used as something in "Motion". As All know that Quran has most wide wordings.

Everything is in motion in the universe and the earth. And He is All-Mighty, All-Wise

[Al-Quran 59:1]
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      05-25-2007, 01:06 PM   #110
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Layers in Oceans


Or (the mind of a disbeliever is) like darknesses in a vast deep sea, a wave covers it, on the upper surface of this is (another) wave, (and) on the upper surface of this (are) dark clouds — depths of darkness, one above another (layers over layer). When he stretched out his hand he could not see it. And that for whom Allah has not arranged Noor(light) (Quran), then (there is) not for him from Noor.

[Al-Quran, 24:40]



Allah is informing us in the above verse about the darkness which is one above another or layer over layer. Today science tells us that from the surface to the depth of the ocean, darkness is one above another or layer over layer. lets see.

Scientific Research

The ocean can be divided from its surface to its depth into three zones based on the amount of light received. They are: (1)

The Sunlight Zone Of The Ocean

This is the top layer, nearest the surface. It is also called the euphotic zone. Here there is enough light penetrating the water to support photosynthesis. (1)

The euphotic zone is the surface layer of ocean where sufficient light is available. (2)

Twilight Zone Of The Ocean

Only a small amount of light can penetrate the water at this depth. Plants do not grow here. Only animals that have adapted to little light survive. (1)

Midnight Zone Of The Ocean

Ninety percent of the ocean is in the midnight zone. It is entirely dark—there is no light. The water pressure is extreme. The temperature is near freezing. (1)

Conclusion

We have seen the reality of these words "depths of darkness, one above another (layers over layer). how accurate Quran use these words.
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