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      07-05-2011, 11:07 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
Hybrids do not have a traditional starter like non-hybrids. The electric dc motor just spins the engine over to start it. Not a regular starter. Thus that is why we have not heard of starter failures in the Prius.

M3 on the other hand most likely does use a traditional starter since its a non-hybrid.
Didn't know that - makes sense though.
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      07-05-2011, 02:01 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
Hybrids do not have a traditional starter like non-hybrids. The electric dc motor just spins the engine over to start it. Not a regular starter. Thus that is why we have not heard of starter failures in the Prius.

M3 on the other hand most likely does use a traditional starter since its a non-hybrid.
Having thought about this you are correct. However, that does not mean that the M3 and other "Auto-start-stop" BMWs don't have some sort of heavy duty starter motor in them. Does anyone know for sure?
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      07-05-2011, 02:19 PM   #69
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I loved Top Gears comments on this feature. After spinning out in a cloud of smoke the car shut off. Jeremy quipped something like "Since when do you arrive backwards at a stop light in a cloud of smoke?"

Don't plan to use when my car arrives in August.
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      07-05-2011, 03:48 PM   #70
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Looks like there's some confusion and unanswered questions here, so I'll try to clear up what I can:

- Auto Start/Stop was introduced in 2011.5 M3s, i.e. September 2010 production and later. It's now standard equipment and it didn't get introduced on any other BMW models at that time, even the normal 3ers. The only other models that currently have it in the US are the ActiveHybrids; I believe 3ers in other markets have had it for a while though.

- It defaults to DISABLED on startup on US cars, but I've heard other markets default to having it ENABLED, such as Australia. Not sure about Canada, UK, Germany, etc but I'm curious if anyone knows for sure.

- You CAN change this behavior, but you have to do it via coding with special software and an OBD-II cable. Your startup options are Enabled, Disabled, and Last State. I personally coded Last State, which I think should be the default startup mode in all markets. That coding takes about 3 minutes, so anyone who quoted several hundred pounds is gouging like nobody's business -- and therefore should get nobody's business.

- It will only kick on if the engine has reached operating temperature, the cabin is at the desired temperature set on the A/C, the outside temperature is within a certain range, and a few other parameters, so having it enabled doesn't guarantee your engine will stop every time you do.

As for what I think of it, I agree there's nothing wrong with trying to save gas. The fact that M3 owners are probably better off financially on average doesn't mean that, all things being equal, they wouldn't mind saving some cash on gas or being greener. It's not like you lose 50 horsepower out of the deal. I thought about engine wear and tear myself, so if I know I'm only going to be stopped for a few seconds, I'll keep the clutch down so prevent it from kicking in, and if I'm going to be in actual stop and go traffic that actually stops and goes frequently as opposed to gridlocked stop and go, I'll disable it entirely. For times when I'm only coming to a stop occasionally and the stops last a fair amount of time, why not save some gas? Yes, some people have looked at me like I stalled my car, but I'm secure enough not to worry what some random person in the car next to me thinks of my 6MT skills.
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Last edited by jphughan; 07-05-2011 at 06:46 PM.
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      07-05-2011, 04:03 PM   #71
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      07-05-2011, 04:38 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
- It defaults to DISABLED on startup on US cars, but I've heard other markets default to having it ENABLED, such as Australia. Not sure about Canada, UK, Germany, etc but I'm curious if anyone knows for sure.
I drove my Canadian spec M3 in Europe 6 weeks ago and it had this feature. The default position was disabled on vehicle startup. You have to engage it if you want the feature.

One thing I did find interesting happened on a busy street in heavy traffic. I was backing out of a parking space and a bike went by behind me. I slammed on the brakes fast enough to stall it and when I pushed the clutch in and shifted to first the car autostarted. This allowed me to get out of the way faster without having to reach for the starter.

Last edited by goldminer; 07-05-2011 at 04:50 PM.
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      07-05-2011, 05:06 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldminer View Post
I drove my Canadian spec M3 in Europe 6 weeks ago and it had this feature. The default position was disabled on vehicle startup. You have to engage it if you want the feature.

One thing I did find interesting happened on a busy street in heavy traffic. I was backing out of a parking space and a bike went by behind me. I slammed on the brakes fast enough to stall it and when I pushed the clutch in and shifted to first the car autostarted. This allowed me to get out of the way faster without having to reach for the starter.
Yeah, I've noticed that. I like to think of that as BMW's ego preservation function -- it will show Auto Stop on the dashboard when you actually stalled. But "true" Auto Stop only kicks in when in Neutral and the clutch is out.
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      07-05-2011, 05:43 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
- You CAN change this behavior, but you have to do it via coding with special software and an OBD-II cable. Your startup options are Enabled, Disabled, and Last State. I personally coded Last State, which I personally think should be the default startup mode globally. That coding takes about 3 minutes, so anyone who quoted several hundred pounds is gouging like nobody's business -- and therefore should get nobody's business.
Great clarifications, thanks. I was down at my local BMW dealer (Seattle) a few weeks ago and asked them to re-porgram; they explained that they could not find the codes... I honestly think they tried and didn't know where to look...

Would you be willing to provide a little more detail as to where in the special software you went to make the change?
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      07-05-2011, 06:08 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abizarvakharia View Post
Great clarifications, thanks. I was down at my local BMW dealer (Seattle) a few weeks ago and asked them to re-porgram; they explained that they could not find the codes... I honestly think they tried and didn't know where to look...

Would you be willing to provide a little more detail as to where in the special software you went to make the change?
Sure, though I'm not sure a dealer would be willing to do this. But if they are, they need to use NCS Expert, open up the CAS master ECU, choose the IHK sub-ECU module, and switch the MSA_MEMORY option from nicht_aktiv to aktiv. That will put Start/Stop into Last State mode. I'm sure there's a way to use coding to have it always start up enabled or disabled, but I was more interested in achieving Last State, so there you go.
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Last edited by jphughan; 07-05-2011 at 10:31 PM.
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      07-06-2011, 11:06 AM   #76
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Perfect, thank you.
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      07-06-2011, 02:50 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abizarvakharia View Post
Perfect, thank you.
You bet. If you have a dealer that will actually help with coding, there's a lot of other convenient stuff you can ask them to do that's no more difficult. For example, I've coded the following on mine:

- Instant MPG
- Doors unlock when engine is turned off (no more pressing the Central Locking button or "double-clutching the door handle")
- Keyfob is ejected when engine is turned off (no more pushing the keyfob in to pull it out)
- Windows and moonroof can be closed with the keyfob rather than just opened (this is enabled by default on Euro cars but disabled on US cars because we're too quick to sue)
- Unaltered digital speedometer (in default mode it's consistent with the analog speedo, which is programmed to read about 7% fast as a safeguard since it's illegal for them to read even 1% slow)
- EfficientDynamics shift suggestions, for those few times when you want to drive to optimize fuel economy (6MT only)
- Alarm beeps on lock but doesn't beep on unlock (I like the lock beep since it doesn't happen if a door is only partially closed but the useless unlock double-beep always got on my nerves)
- iDrive startup legal disclaimer removed
- iDrive fuel stop suggestion (if you have a route configured you can go to Route Information and it will list gas stations near where you'll need to refuel and immediately let you add one as a waypoint -- ironically this feature is mentioned in the manual but not actually enabled on US cars)

If you want details on any of these, please PM me. Wouldn't want to cause a .
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Last edited by jphughan; 07-06-2011 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Added additional items
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      07-06-2011, 02:53 PM   #78
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Best way to save fuel when stopping at a set of lights for a long time is to shift your gear into neutral.
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      07-06-2011, 03:06 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
You bet. If you have a dealer that will actually help with coding, there's a lot of other convenient stuff you can ask them to do that's no more difficult. For example, I've coded the following on mine:

- Instant MPG
- Doors unlock when engine is turned off (no more pressing the Central Locking button or "double-clutching the door handle")
- Keyfob is ejected when engine is turned off (no more pushing the keyfob in to pull it out)
- Windows and moonroof can be closed with the keyfob rather than just opened (this is enabled by default on Euro cars but disabled on US cars because we're too quick to sue)
- Unaltered digital speedometer (in default mode it's consistent with the analog speedo, which is programmed to read about 7% fast as a safeguard since it's illegal for them to read even 1% slow)
- EfficientDynamics shift suggestions, for those few times when you want to drive to optimize fuel economy (6MT only)
- Alarm beeps on lock but doesn't beep on unlock (I like the lock beep since it doesn't happen if a door is only partially closed but the useless unlock double-beep always got on my nerves)
- iDrive startup legal disclaimer removed
- iDrive fuel stop suggestion (if you have a route configured you can go to Route Information and it will list gas stations near where you'll need to refuel and immediately let you add one as a waypoint)

If you want details on any of these, please PM me. Wouldn't want to cause a .
Good info!

There should be a sticky on this board that tells you what is programmable.

I know when I had my Lexus IS350 there was a sticky on the Lexus board that explained all of this and what can be changed. Very useful.

I'm surprised there is no information on here about these settings?

Maybe I just haven't found it yet.
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      07-06-2011, 03:10 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmura View Post
Good info!

There should be a sticky on this board that tells you what is programmable.

I know when I had my Lexus IS350 there was a sticky on the Lexus board that explained all of this and what can be changed. Very useful.

I'm surprised there is no information on here about these settings?

Maybe I just haven't found it yet.
The reason is that they're not intended to be user-configurable like other iDrive settings. There's a VERY long thread on E90Post called "BMW Coding Success" that talks about this, as well as a website devoted specifically to coding. It's banned here but if you search BMW Coding in Google you should find it quickly.

That said, it requires a $100 cable, some software that was never intended for public consumption and is therefore not user-friendly, mostly in German, and a little tricky to troubleshoot, so it's definitely pretty far into the power user arena, but there are some spreadsheets that list all the commonly known coding possibilities for the adventurous types.
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      07-13-2011, 10:22 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
You bet. If you have a dealer that will actually help with coding, there's a lot of other convenient stuff you can ask them to do that's no more difficult...
So I just got may car back from the dealer no luck. To the dealers credit they really did try to change the setting. Apparently the BMW software asked for a passcode to change the setting. They even tried to get the passcode from BMW's internal escalation path and they were denied! Apparently in the US is considered a safety issue

Incidentally I was reading this months Roundel (July 2011, page 28) and saw an interesting blurb about start-stop engines coming to mainstream BMWs (including the F30s) in the US. Here is the quote re: fuel economy by some estimates, it improves real-world fuel economy by about 8%. And while once there was no reward on the U.S Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAF) ratings, now there is: New EPA test driving cycles build in more stops, and that lets a car show better EPA city mileage.
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      07-13-2011, 10:41 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abizarvakharia View Post
So I just got may car back from the dealer no luck. To the dealers credit they really did try to change the setting. Apparently the BMW software asked for a passcode to change the setting. They even tried to get the passcode from BMW's internal escalation path and they were denied! Apparently in the US is considered a safety issue

Incidentally I was reading this months Roundel (July 2011, page 28) and saw an interesting blurb about start-stop engines coming to mainstream BMWs (including the F30s) in the US. Here is the quote re: fuel economy by some estimates, it improves real-world fuel economy by about 8%. And while once there was no reward on the U.S Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAF) ratings, now there is: New EPA test driving cycles build in more stops, and that lets a car show better EPA city mileage.
If repxet didn't work they're either in the wrong place or using the wrong software -- I think it's awesome they even tried though. Anyway if you want to buy the cable yourself I'd be happy to help though. :-)
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      07-13-2011, 02:36 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
Looks like there's some confusion and unanswered questions here, so I'll try to clear up what I can:-
It will only kick on if the engine has reached operating temperature, the cabin is at the desired temperature set on the A/C, the outside temperature is within a certain range, and a few other parameters, so having it enabled doesn't guarantee your engine will stop every time you do.
I've used this feature a few times, and I'm actually surprised how quickly it will kick in -- I've had it stop at a light probably only 3 minutes into my commute (though it was a warm morning), and definitely the car was no where near warmed up according to the oil temp gauge. Apparently its idea of "operating temp" is pretty low. I did have it restart at least once when I think it concluded the car was getting too hot. I'll be curious to see if it will shut off during the Chicago winter. This is kind of a nice feature for my commute, as I have some lights on my commute that are very long (~ 2 minutes if I just miss them). It does restart pretty quick.
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      07-17-2011, 01:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
For example, I've coded the following on mine:

- Instant MPG
- Doors unlock when engine is turned off (no more pressing the Central Locking button or "double-clutching the door handle")
- Keyfob is ejected when engine is turned off (no more pushing the keyfob in to pull it out)
- Windows and moonroof can be closed with the keyfob rather than just opened (this is enabled by default on Euro cars but disabled on US cars because we're too quick to sue)
- Unaltered digital speedometer (in default mode it's consistent with the analog speedo, which is programmed to read about 7% fast as a safeguard since it's illegal for them to read even 1% slow)
- EfficientDynamics shift suggestions, for those few times when you want to drive to optimize fuel economy (6MT only)
- Alarm beeps on lock but doesn't beep on unlock (I like the lock beep since it doesn't happen if a door is only partially closed but the useless unlock double-beep always got on my nerves)
- iDrive startup legal disclaimer removed
- iDrive fuel stop suggestion (if you have a route configured you can go to Route Information and it will list gas stations near where you'll need to refuel and immendiately let you add one as a waypoint -- ironically this feature is mentioned in the manual but not actually enabled on US cars)
Can u default the "M" mode to on too?
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      07-17-2011, 02:24 PM   #85
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      07-18-2011, 01:40 PM   #86
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Start/Stop makes lower CO2 emission:

Without S/S: ~263g/km
With S/S: ~230g/km
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