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06-21-2011, 07:32 PM | #45 | |
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Conversely, I also think that there are 6MT buyers who do NOT buy a 6MT for the "driving experience" but rather because they think it is cooler, etc. Until someone really owns/spends time in both, it is hard to comment on the difference in "driving experience" other than from unsubstantiated bias. From experience, the 6MT is more physically involving but the DCT is every bit as "fun". The DCT is "easier" to drive and subjectively faster even on the street. The DCT also feels, IMO, like it has a little more torque which might be due to gearing, I suppose. Being in higher gears is less punishing (torque wise) in the DCT than I remember it being in the 6MT. Both are great... both are fun... DCT is easier to drive faster... 6MT requires more physical involvement. Last edited by gthal; 06-21-2011 at 07:40 PM.. |
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06-22-2011, 06:59 AM | #46 | |
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i like how Porsche designs a car around a manual tranny, like the GT3 and GT3 RS. since BMW will no longer be making NA M cars i may have to give up some road comfort and will most likely go the GT3 route if i still can at the time. i like the R8 but i prefer RWD
that said i love the 6sp in my M3 and loved the manual in my last 2 M cars as well. i drove a DCT. there nice but not something i would buy. to me the DCT would be like a new video game, great for the first month or couple weeks then i would get bored of the paddles. i don't care that i am a little slower with the manual i have a blast every time i get in the car Quote:
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06-24-2011, 07:51 AM | #47 | |
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I don't think many people opt for the 6mt because they think it's cool. A majority of people get a 6mt because they enjoy driving a manual car, and there is probably a smaller proportion who didn't want to spend the money on the DCT. Hell, using the logic of this forum, you could buy a 6MT, save the $2,900 the DCT costs and get turner test pipes with a tune and you'll be faster than a stock DCT car guaranteed. |
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06-24-2011, 08:13 AM | #48 |
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DCTs are making the "performance" advantage of manual transmissions a thing of the past, sort of like ABS brakes versus non-computer controlled brakes (though DCT is not a safety feature for poor drivers so it won't become a requirement and will remain an extra cost option). The allure of the manual transmission now is "more driver involvement" or "it's more of a challenge, in that you have to be a better driver to go just as fast" or, simply, "it's cheaper."
I have the 6MT and have no complaints, but may get a DCT in my next car (not necessarily an M3 or even a BMW). |
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06-24-2011, 04:08 PM | #49 |
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DEAD WRONG! I just gave back my 08 E90 M3 6MT for the 1M and I can't wait for it to be built, the M3 is/was a very fun car but I bet the 1M will be more rewarding to drive.
Last edited by JAX S50; 06-24-2011 at 04:11 PM.. Reason: gramer |
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06-25-2011, 08:27 AM | #50 |
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I can't disagree with that. I'd be all over the 1M for my dd if the trade numbers were within reason for my 335. As some say, it's not who's faster it's who's having more fun getting there. Not taking anything away from the M3 as it is an excellent car but for me the 1M would be a blast. Add a mild Dinan tune, some lighter wheels with a wee bit more rubber (although I love the look of the OEM wheels) and this car will be so much fun; even stock.
Last edited by devo; 06-25-2011 at 08:39 AM.. |
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06-25-2011, 08:38 AM | #51 | |
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06-25-2011, 11:24 AM | #52 |
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Manual versus paddle debates remind me of when bicycles went from friction shifting to indexing. Friction lovers always claimed they had more control over the gearing and had a weight advantage.
Guess what? Friction shifting hasn't existed for twenty years.
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06-25-2011, 12:22 PM | #53 |
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You need to give Porsche a break and not be so hard on them...
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06-25-2011, 12:43 PM | #54 | |
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Although there are some who would undoubtedly buy a DCT because they can't drive a 6MT, my bet is they are far from the majority. Those folks would, IMO, buy an M5 or Merc AMG. There is a definite stigma for DCT owners from some die hard 6MT lovers (as evidenced by this forum)... I would bet the "perception" of choosing a DCT would cause some to get the 6MT even if they had an inclination to go DCT. Funny, and true, story... a few years back a buddy and I were walking past a Corvette and he looked inside and made a comment about how it was a shame that the car was an auto (well, in this case it was a true auto). Just as the comment was coming out of his mouth, the owner walked up to the car. You could tell it really bothered him. I think it is this stigma that would cause some, not all, buyers to choose a 6MT when they would secretly like to go DCT. On top of that, how many times on this forum has someone commented about regretting not going DCT or saying their next M3 would be DCT? Lots... and they all currently drive a 6MT... just saying. Anyway, like I said, we won't ever really know the stats for sure so at this point it is pure speculation.
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06-25-2011, 04:56 PM | #55 |
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If they want a car that stands out from the regular 3 series, why don't they buy a 5 series? M3 is as expensive as some of the 5 series models.
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06-26-2011, 10:30 AM | #57 |
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I was at the dealership yesterday because my DRL on the left was out. I got talking to the Service Manager and he started talking about the 1M.
He stated that that 1M doesn't have an M tuned engine. Who tuned the 1M's engine? Is it an S engine? Just curious.... |
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06-26-2011, 01:53 PM | #58 | |
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Cyclists who feel/felt that friction shifting provided better control and had weight savings worth mentioning are delusional. I have no such delusions about a manual over DCT, although a manual is lighter. We all know that really doesn't make a difference to the average driver. Last edited by devo; 06-26-2011 at 04:49 PM.. |
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06-26-2011, 02:18 PM | #60 | |
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06-26-2011, 04:55 PM | #61 |
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I just looked at the insides of the 1M. The engine says "Powered by BMW M". It does not have the ///M badge and is not exclusive to the M Division. Hopefully BMW do not dilute the M Division this way because the engine from the present M3 is not present in a non-M car and the same applies to the old M5/6 with the V10.
I am saddened to see that BMW are going the Mercedes way & are not going to have exclusive M engines. I guess the company does what is best for their bottom line. My E92 M3 may end up being my last M car.... |
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06-26-2011, 05:15 PM | #62 |
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Of course it's an automatic. Two pedals, shifts itself or lets you shift it, exactly like GM's first Hydramatic from over 70 years ago.
I don't think there's a stigma attached to autos any more (because they're just so damned good), but apparently you do. Get over it. Other than some less-endearing traits in everyday traffic (not as silky smooth as a torque converter), the DCT is a completely terrific auto. One of the best out there. Bruce |
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06-26-2011, 06:55 PM | #63 | |
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Well we have more in common than a love of GT3s. I have been a serious road cyclist since the mid 80s. I remember buying my first 6 speed Dura Ace group in '87 and being scoffed at by die hard Campy Super Record people. This reminds me of that. That said, I switched to Campy once they produced a slant parallelgram rear derailleur and indexing.
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06-26-2011, 07:37 PM | #64 | |
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What do you ride now? Me: A 18 year old Merlin Extra-Lite Ti frame with newer 20 speed Dura-Ace group, Easton carbon fork and Mavic carbon wheels, weighs in at <15 lbs. |
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06-26-2011, 07:49 PM | #65 |
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That oval shaped chainring was called "Bio Pace" I think. Goofy.
My current ride is a Pinarello Prince with Campy Super Record (it goes to 11)
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