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      06-25-2011, 03:27 AM   #243
Bonziii82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
Translation:

The M brand will continue to move its focus more towards comfort and luxury amenities because that is what is what sells in the 60k + price range. BMW cannot and will not attempt to compete with the likes of Porsche in the focused performance car segment, but rather focus on products that line up directly with the likes of Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. Our top performance products will continue in the direction of being more accurately defined as muscle cars than sports cars, and our engines will have little to distinguish them from the competition as has been shown with the new M5 engine being a near exact copy of the engine from the '08 Audi RS6 .

BMW will always try to hold just enough of an edge over the competition in the "sportiness factor" to maintain its historic motor sports reputation, but not too sporty to the point of risking the loss of customers looking for the ultimate in luxury and comfort.

My advice:

Since BMW has clearly conceded to Porsche in the 50-100k focused sports car segment, offer more sports cars in the price range of the 1M that focus purely on performance and light weight. If you sell a focused sports car at 35-50k your buyers will not expect the same unnecessary garbage like sunroofs, nav, 20 speakers, power seats, excessive sounds insulation, etc. that current M3 drivers need to justify the purchase price.

And you do realize if BMW offered the 1M with the S65 engine this statement would no longer apply "US BMW customers see the M3 (or 1M) as a Performance luxury vehicle." BMW would sell them faster than they could build them especially if the car was offered with no luxuries. That sounds like a real modern day E30 M3 to me!



All the core BMW enthusiasts such as myself really want is for BMW to hold onto the long help philosophies of the M brand in at least a one or two small cars.

Offer something that is stick shift, lightweight, and has a high revving naturally aspirated engine. A super high tech aluminum block evolution of the Inline 6 built along the lines of the S54 would be ideal, but even a similar evolution of the Inline 4 to follow up the S14 would be fine so long as the vehicles it is placed in are light enough to be stupid fast and fun!

Put this engine maybe in both a future Z2 and M2 that is sparse in luxury, and CFRP intensive... fuel economy would be plenty good and sales would explode. Last time BMW followed this this strategy it seems to work quite well.

Here is some motivation for the road ahead:

Nice and spot on
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      06-25-2011, 04:58 AM   #244
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I want those seats.
i want it
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      06-25-2011, 06:08 AM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
[/b]

That's just disgusting. Didn't know that. No wonder we don't get anything fun.
Can you please explain how Porcshe is able to bring over very limited run cars and still make money? Cayman R, GT3, GT3-RS, GT2 and of course the GT2-RS?
What sells cars in the US, is great magazine reviews, and I'm sure a lighter weight, sharper handling M3 with real brakes and coilovers- even with the stock engine- would get rave reviews and it wouldn't cost $160,000 to make.

.
IMHO, Porsche is a step up comparing to BMW.
Porsche has long built the image that If you're looking for a true sport car, a real performance then Porsche fits the bill (whereas BMW is more of the middle ground of performance & practicality).

I think that the boxer engine in Porsche is also a bit better than the inline-6 for performance purpose (perfectly balanced & low center of gravity).

& since Porsche focuses their attention on PERFORMANCE, their parts & accessories have to conform with that goal. So, CF is brought in, hence added cost.

For a true performance & still a daily driver, Porsche wins.
Therefore, they can bring over very limited run cars and still make money comparing to BMW.

I read that between the M3 GTS vs GT3 RS. They are both priced the same, but the GT3 RS is probably in your garage unless you're a die hard bmw fan.

I have no data or evidence to back myself up, but that's my 2 cents.

Should I put on a flame suit?!?!
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      06-25-2011, 07:26 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
When, if ever, has BMW changed the engine in the midst of a model cycle in a M car (aside from E36/8 M coupe)?
Z3

Last edited by Digital.James; 06-25-2011 at 07:32 AM.
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      06-25-2011, 08:10 AM   #247
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I am glad that they did not take out things like badges to save weight. Porsche does that and puts stickers instead. I think it is a mistake.

And I think that porsche can create all these 911 variants and use CF because they charge so much and over price these cars. Plus, they charge for a lot of features that should be standard.

Ex. MDM vs. Sport Chrono
BMW
-you just need EDC to get MDM. 1k

Porsche
-you need PASM. 2k (standard on s model)
-sport chrono. 1k (Manual) or 1.5k (PDK)

So porsche charges you 3.5k for a feature that is analogous to MDM, which is only 1k. That is how porsche makes money and is able to release all these special variants. Plus they charge for a lot of options that should be standard. Things like color crest wheels, LSD, and paddle shifters. Geez, talk about being nickeled and dimed.

And most importantly, I think it has to do with branding and prestige and heritage. People will pay 150k-200k for a porsche and there is a market for these special variants. Unfortunately, I don't know many people who would pay that much for a BMW.
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      06-25-2011, 10:24 AM   #248
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My point is BMW sells WAY more cars than Porsche and they are still able to bring in cars like the Cayman R, which costs around $70,000. NO WAY they're going to sell that man of them.

How much would it cost BMW to make an M3 with some of the body pieces like the splitter, spoiler, fixed caliper brakes, coils and exhaust? You know they get the stuff way cheaper than we could get it. The seats would be nice too, but that may take some extra money. I'm not even asking for the engine, though the Cayman R has more power than the standard Cayman engine, so wouldn't it need to be Federalized too?

.
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      06-25-2011, 11:56 AM   #249
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sick! wonderful

I'm really feeling this idea.. the weight saving just makes the ultimately desired in its class.

but guys this is a heads up on how the next M's will be. They will have these light weight options standard or optional next. Can't wait, but for right now lets enjoy what we have.
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      06-25-2011, 12:00 PM   #250
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I really hope we can get that interior...I would pay any premium BMW wants to xharge
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      06-25-2011, 12:07 PM   #251
d3l0n
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lol
im sure they will cost at least 3K-5K

Quote:
Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
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please
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      06-25-2011, 02:13 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HBspeed View Post
It's the other way around. Porsche is more profitable, or at least it has been for the recent past.
As an overall company?
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      06-25-2011, 10:13 PM   #253
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I guess when it shows the tail lights to the regular M3 and the guy finally stops. The owner of the regular M3 can pull along side and say .......hmmmmm it kicked my cars butt...but just for your info I have more HP/L


Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
The engine is the least impressive part of the car, IMO. It makes less HP/L than our car.
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      06-26-2011, 04:33 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman335 View Post
I have a feeling that the F3x m3 might use this engine(tuned to 470-480hp with close to 9000rpm redline)...

Just a guess....
That would have been a good guess a few years back before everything changed. As it stands today, though, there's really no chance of anything with 8 cylinders nor without a turbocharger powering the next M3.
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      06-26-2011, 09:17 AM   #255
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So during the flash we need a trickle charger attached??
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      06-26-2011, 09:19 AM   #256
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give me a Manual transmission, carbon fiber roof, NO NAVI, and NO premium sound system.
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      06-26-2011, 02:43 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
That would have been a good guess a few years back before everything changed. As it stands today, though, there's really no chance of anything with 8 cylinders nor without a turbocharger powering the next M3.
agreed. 9k rpm is a pipe dream now.
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      06-26-2011, 10:41 PM   #258
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wish they used the stacked LEDs for the front turn signal lights.
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      06-27-2011, 01:17 PM   #259
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378x32 mm front brake rotors
380x28 mm rear rear rotors

the front is smaller than the rear?
please explain.
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      06-27-2011, 01:39 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfan View Post
378x32 mm front brake rotors
380x28 mm rear rear rotors

the front is smaller than the rear?
please explain.
The E46 M3 non ZCP had larger rear rotors as well.

325x28mm front

328x20mm rear
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      06-27-2011, 02:13 PM   #261
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what's the logic of rear brake is larger than front brake?
Car's capable of going real fast in Reverse?

Kidding aside, what's the explanation please?
Thanks,
D
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      06-27-2011, 02:25 PM   #262
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the maths work out that the front brakes are still bigger? swept area is more important right?

edit: it's the same engine as the GTS, but with more hp?
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      07-07-2011, 06:09 PM   #263
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Oh my.. I want those seats!
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      07-16-2011, 01:08 PM   #264
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