Automobile Magazine 1M vs M3

[Boost Meister]

[radiantm3]

I predict the DCT guys will love this.

[PhillyNate]

When did Adam Sandler start reviewing cars?

[Boost Meister]

Originally Posted by PhillyNate

When did Adam Sandler start reviewing cars?

I thought the same thing when I saw the guy.

[gthal]

Very entertaining review. I think that's the first orange car I have ever really liked.

[HBspeed]

More like... The 1M with the M3's engine is what an M3 should be.

All the automatic transmission humor is spot on, and sure to ruffle some feathers here.

Imagine how focused and pure a drivers car the M3 would be today if it had NEVER been offered in automatic? Maybe a true evolution of the original E30 M3 as the video suggests. But then how is BMW gonna rake in the mega $$$$.

[Mr.Metak2you]

I prefer 6MT but he is being a little harsh on the 'type' of guys that would opt for the DCT( or as Clarkson would say floppy paddles).

[AudiS5]

I gotta say, I drove stick from when I got my license (17) to when I was 22. Those 5 years I swore up and down that I'd never get a car I drove every day in any type of auto, BUT compared to my old STi and my old S5 the M3 manual was atrocious IMO. This guys just trying to be a hard ass, and sadly I agree with some of his points. If the manual was more rewarding to drive I'd have saved my 3k that I paid for the DCT and bought it, unfortunately it wasn't.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by AudiS5

I gotta say, I drove stick from when I got my license (17) to when I was 22. Those 5 years I swore up and down that I'd never get a car I drove every day in any type of auto, BUT compared to my old STi and my old S5 the M3 manual was atrocious IMO. This guys just trying to be a hard ass, and sadly I agree with some of his points. If the manual was more rewarding to drive I'd have saved my 3k that I paid for the DCT and bought it, unfortunately it wasn't.

Sounds like you just don't have enough manual driving experience. The M3 shifter does just fine.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

Imagine how focused and pure a drivers car the M3 would be today if it had NEVER been offered in automatic? Maybe a true evolution of the original E30 M3 as the video suggests.

Huh? Because BMW simply offers a DCT the car is somehow less of a focused and pure drivers car? That makes zero sense... I could understand your comment somewhat (although not totally) if no 6MT was offered at all. I guess Ferrari, Lambo and Bugatti do not make focused and pure driving cars.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Sounds like you just don't have enough manual driving experience. The M3 shifter does just fine.

I've driven 5MT and 6MT for 23 years (a total of 18 different cars over that time) and you are correct, the M3 shifter does just "fine". It isn't great by any means but is OK. I completely understand the comment from AudiS5 on why he was let down with the M3's current 6MT. IMO, it was the only less than great part of the car... it was good but just not up to snuff relative to the rest of the car. Having said that, it also wasn't bad enough that it would have stopped me from getting the 6MT and I thoroughly enjoyed that car while I had it.

[///M Ryder]

Cute ...............Phil

[I M STIG]

Originally Posted by gthal

Huh? Because BMW simply offers a DCT the car is somehow less of a focused and pure drivers car? That makes zero sense... I could understand your comment somewhat (although not totally) if no 6MT was offered at all. I guess Ferrari, Lambo and Bugatti do not make focused and pure driving cars.

The Bugatti isn't a pure driving car. The Lamborghinis are becoming more so than what they used to be, but Ferrari is starting to lose some of the points of pure driving pleasure.

You see, people tend to use their sports/super cars more and more each day, so they wanted them to be easier to drive and do their daily stuff without losing much of the fun-ness. So yes, an M3, any Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. can still be fun with DCT or automatic trannies. However, you're missing the most important point of driving it: the actual driving part.

An M3 is fun with M-DCT or with a manual transmission, but it's not the same experience.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW2

The Bugatti isn't a pure driving car. The Lamborghinis are becoming more so than what they used to be, but Ferrari is starting to lose some of the points of pure driving pleasure.

You see, people tend to use their sports/super cars more and more each day, so they wanted them to be easier to drive and do their daily stuff without losing much of the fun-ness. So yes, an M3, any Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. can still be fun with DCT or automatic trannies. However, you're missing the most important point of driving it: the actual driving part.

An M3 is fun with M-DCT or with a manual transmission, but it's not the same experience.

Couple of comments...

If you think Ferrari has "lost something" than I would ask how/why you say that. I don't recall anyone who has spent time in a 458 noting that it was less fun than a 360? Have you had the opportunity to spend significant time in a 360 and now a 458 or is your comment speculative because YOU prefer a 6MT?

Ferrari has commented that they use DCTs to improve performance NOT because they care about making a 458 DD friendly nor, would I bet, that any notable portion of their customer base use a 458 as a DD. If you think that Lambo or Ferrari now ONLY offer DCTs to make their cars more DD friendly then I suggest you might have had a few too many beer tonight

I have owned both trannys on the E92 M3 and can attest... with experience... that the both are just as fun, just as involving but, as you correctly state, just slightly different.

[templarklimek]

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by gthal

Huh? Because BMW simply offers a DCT the car is somehow less of a focused and pure drivers car? That makes zero sense... I could understand your comment somewhat (although not totally) if no 6MT was offered at all. I guess Ferrari, Lambo and Bugatti do not make focused and pure driving cars.

It is less focused because once you offer the automatic transmission, the car is more accessible to those buying it purely for the status or reputation. What these people actually want is a luxury car that people will respect as a sports car, not an actual focused sports car.

Consequently the modern M3 is not designed for the same customer as the E30 M3 was, which is sad for people like me who wish it was still designed with the same philosophy as the E30.

BMW decided to make these compromises for profitability, not to create the best sports car.

This holds true to Ferrari, Lambo and Bugatti as well.

I have no problem with the M3 as it currently exists, so long as BMW builds an "actual" M3 in the spirit of the original as well. Right now that is the 1M. Sadly they still missed the mark on the 1M by offering a standard off the shelf engine unbecoming of a true E30 M3 successor or any M car for that matter... otherwise I would be driving one.

I owned a Z4M coupe before my current E46 M3 so I surely go after the most focused offerings BMW has presented. It was a great car, but not practical for daily use like a car with a real trunk and backseats.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

It is less focused because once you offer the automatic transmission, the car is more accessible to those buying it purely for the status or reputation. What these people actually want is a luxury car that people will respect as a sports car, not an actual focused sports car.

Consequently the modern M3 is not designed for the same customer as the E30 M3 was, which is sad for people like me who wish it was still designed with the same philosophy as the E30.

Well, let's agree to disagree overall.

IMO, the choice of transmission does NOT change the fact that a car is more or less sports focused. If the E30 M3 had a DCT, would it make it any less of a car? Have you driven a DCT for more than 10 minutes?

I do agree that E92 is not as focused as the E30 was but that is true of most cars today. Also, that lack of "focus" is NOT about transmission choice but rather the car overall... you know, 16 speakers, power everything, i-drive, sound deadening material, etc.

If you think DCT makes the car less "focused" then I think you are missing the point of DCT and are bringing your own personal biases into this... which, I guess is OK as our own bias is what drives our opinions on everything... like I said, let's just say we disagree.

[mdosu]

luckily, BMW has just made a car you can get with a clutch pedal, it's called a M3.

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by gthal

Well, let's agree to disagree overall.

IMO, the choice of transmission does NOT change the fact that a car is more or less sports focused. If the E30 M3 had a DCT, would it make it any less of a car? Have you driven a DCT for more than 10 minutes?

I do agree that E92 is not as focused as the E30 was but that is true of most cars today. Also, that lack of "focus" is NOT about transmission choice but rather the car overall... you know, 16 speakers, power everything, i-drive, sound deadening material, etc.

If you think DCT makes the car less "focused" then I think you are missing the point of DCT and are bringing your own personal biases into this... which, I guess is OK as our own bias is what drives our opinions on everything... like I said, let's just say we disagree.

I have nothing against DCT being offered.

It is the fact that it is offered at all changes how the car is designed and marketed that I don't like.

If BMW designed the car as if it were for enthusiasts only (manual transmission drivers generally), and then threw in DCT for those so inclined, the M3 would be a much better sports car than it is today.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by HBspeed

I have nothing against DCT being offered.

It is the fact that it is offered at all changes how the car is designed and marketed that I don't like.

If BMW designed the car as if it were for enthusiasts only (manual transmission drivers generally), and then threw in DCT for those so inclined, the M3 would be a much better sports car than it is today.

I agree with this.

[mdosu]

where can I get his t-shirt?

[mdosu]

again, at the end of the day, I'm sure 100% of 1M owners will give their cars up in a blink for a M3.