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      06-07-2011, 04:18 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
I would love it if someone else with a 6MT E92 M3 drove my car and reflected on any major differences between theirs and mine.
You could post on your regional forum to swap cars with another M3 owner, so you could also what other cars shift like. Problem on forums like these is everybody's definition of 'notchy', 'crunch', 'grind', etc., is different. I've owned enough manual cars in my life I know what's acceptable and what's not, but it's very hard to describe. And yes, I'm old (49) .

The other side of the story is at what point it makes sense to complain and shoot for a fix or replacement. For starters, I absolutely HATE for any dealer personnel to drive my car, especially if you're dealing with high-speed and/or high-rpm issues. And on that note, you better be able to CONSISTENTLY repeat the issue, or don't even waste your time at a dealership. You also have to be realistic about the chances of creating other problems with a tranny swap, or any other major work, for that matter. And finally, with borderline issues where there's no obvious problem, like transmission notchiness, you have to weigh the possibility of a part that has no upgrades being exactly the same as yours after going thru all the trouble of getting it fixed/replaced.

Let me close by saying I'm an engineer and a perfectionist (not a good combination ), and I obviously expect everything to be perfect, but that's not the reality. Little things used to drive me nuts, but learned to live with reality, and learned hardly anything is close to perfect if you scrutinize it enough, and that acceptable is the new perfect. Look at almost any car: they have horrible orange peel, right? Are you going to demand to get it removed? Good luck. You need to learn to live with it. Or fix it yourself. As a mechanical device, each transmission is going to feel different, but as long as it's within the acceptable limits, I wouldn't mess with it. And yes, with enough experience, you'll know what is acceptable and what is not. Good luck learning folks .

Last edited by elp_jc; 06-07-2011 at 04:39 PM.
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      06-07-2011, 04:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post

Tranny swap in the 323? Nice! I wouldn't worry about your 6MT E92. It should be fine on the newer ones. Even with mine, it's not enough for me to switch to DCT (yet). After 11 years with MTs though, it's becoming apparent that I will one day hang up the MT for good
Yeah... worst decision I ever made buying a BMW with an auto tranny. This was a known defect on the early E46's. In fact there's a website devoted to this issue... noreverse.org
You'll see TONS of complaints from people who experienced this reverse gear failure. I had a choice of paying $6k for a remanufactured auto tranny or spend a bit less and get a more bulletproof 5spd tranny so I went that route. From a mechanical standpoint, tranny swaps to manual are straightforward, but the electronics is the tough part and fortunately my mechanic had access to a BMW Master Tech who specializes in BMW electronics so the tranny swap went by perfectly with no error codes or other electronics issues.

You can read a bit more about my reasoning for buying an auto tranny (did it for my future wife and assumed she wouldn't know how to drive a manual but turned out that the woman I married knows how to drive stick so my consideration backfired on me, lol) in the link below:

Eurotuner Magazine Feature
http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...23i/index.html
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      06-07-2011, 05:20 PM   #25
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I've driven a few people's E9X M3's because they thought they had transmission issues, turns out one or two of them weren't shifting very well, the rest of them were just being paranoid. I think if you have straight issues, you'd know.

If only you were out in SoCal.

As an aside, my 2011.5 M3 occasionally grinds during cold starts, but otherwise shifts baby butt smooth. Been beating the crap out of it at the track, and it felt pretty nice after two or so track days.
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      06-07-2011, 08:15 PM   #26
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OK. Just went out and drove the car again, and tried to assess my MT in the most objective way possible. I definitely feel significant resistance and notchiness when trying to downshift from 3 to 2 at virtually any speed. I'm not double clutching btw, i don't think i should have to... 1 to 2 is not too bad. What do others feel when trying to get into 2nd from 3rd? Is that normal?

My SA is looking into SIBs and TSBs to see what she can do. It sounds like I will be taking it in for this issue at some point and I will not raise grinding, as I think that would happen from time to time, even if they replaced the tranny, and I don't want to go through having that verified. The tech should easily be able to verify my complaint of difficulty getting into second without having to drive the car very far or hard at all.

i have 21,000 miles btw...

Edit: even with double-clutching, it's doing it. Under harder driving, it's not bad and I will really have to sleep on it if my SA eventually tells me it needs to be replaced.
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      06-07-2011, 08:35 PM   #27
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I have zero issues and haven't had a gear grind except for me letting the clutch out before the gear was in...totally user error stuff. Good luck with resolution dude.http://www.m3post.com/forums/images/smilies/sigh.gif
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      06-08-2011, 02:59 AM   #28
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Seems like there are two issues here:
Baulking into gear - usually there is a "baulk" ring in the gearbox whose purpose is to resist the selection of a gear until the synco ring has matched the speed of the selected gears to provide a smooth engagement.
Grinding into gear - caused by (assuming the clutch is disengaged) - brute force shifting, trying to shift too quickly before the synco ring has speed matched the engaging gears.


In either case the answer is in the timing..there is a speed for every upshift that would give a perfect shift even if you had no syncro mesh at all, you just have to practice until you find it. Similar with baulking on the downshift, you have to add a little throttle, timed so that the engine speed matches the gearbox "speed" when you engage the gear (may need to double declutch if the box is cold or extra reluctant).

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      06-08-2011, 09:54 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Seems like there are two issues here:
Baulking into gear - usually there is a "baulk" ring in the gearbox whose purpose is to resist the selection of a gear until the synco ring has matched the speed of the selected gears to provide a smooth engagement.
Grinding into gear - caused by (assuming the clutch is disengaged) - brute force shifting, trying to shift too quickly before the synco ring has speed matched the engaging gears.


In either case the answer is in the timing..there is a speed for every upshift that would give a perfect shift even if you had no syncro mesh at all, you just have to practice until you find it. Similar with baulking on the downshift, you have to add a little throttle, timed so that the engine speed matches the gearbox "speed" when you engage the gear (may need to double declutch if the box is cold or extra reluctant).
It seems that the most significant and reproducible issue with my tranny is downshifting into second. Although I experience grinding in upshifts from 1 to 2, it is very rare and under HARD acceleration - thus, i understand it is a feature of the transmission and i need to slow my shifts.

Even with double clutching and rev matching, i have to pull very hard and through some significant resistance to get down into second at any speed over 10 MPH.

Finally, something that i've noticed since I bought this car, is that 2nd gear moves in the gate as I engage the gear. More so than any other gear. Is this normal? Like it literally lurches forward a bit and I can feel vibration.
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      06-08-2011, 09:19 PM   #30
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My 2010 WONT go into 2nd at high RPM. It's going in soon.
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      06-08-2011, 10:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin@AEperformance View Post
My 2010 WONT go into 2nd at high RPM. It's going in soon.
Same here! i thought i was the only person! i had this happen today, around 6700 RPMS it would not go in and i had not idea what happened this has happened to me other times as well not just once, and i know its not a miss shift because the fact my buddy has a 2008 and his shifts fine!
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      06-09-2011, 02:27 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor .:R View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin@AEperformance View Post
My 2010 WONT go into 2nd at high RPM. It's going in soon.
Same here! i thought i was the only person! i had this happen today, around 6700 RPMS it would not go in and i had not idea what happened this has happened to me other times as well not just once, and i know its not a miss shift because the fact my buddy has a 2008 and his shifts fine!
It is well-documented that the 1 to 2 shift under high rpms is generally unsuccessful when shifting extremely fast.

The bigger issue is the associated damage caused by that grinding.

Also, notchiness in low gear shifts at any speed is a current concern. My SA says there is an SiB for this. I will have more details in a few weeks.
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      06-09-2011, 03:17 AM   #33
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Not all 2008 M3 6speed have that problem. Mine's been completely normal but a friend's was not and he got a new gearbox. It's been problem free ever since.
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      06-09-2011, 05:05 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Seems like there are two issues here:
Baulking into gear - usually there is a "baulk" ring in the gearbox whose purpose is to resist the selection of a gear until the synco ring has matched the speed of the selected gears to provide a smooth engagement.
Grinding into gear - caused by (assuming the clutch is disengaged) - brute force shifting, trying to shift too quickly before the synco ring has speed matched the engaging gears.


In either case the answer is in the timing..there is a speed for every upshift that would give a perfect shift even if you had no syncro mesh at all, you just have to practice until you find it. Similar with baulking on the downshift, you have to add a little throttle, timed so that the engine speed matches the gearbox "speed" when you engage the gear (may need to double declutch if the box is cold or extra reluctant).
'Baulking' I experienced w/ 2008 M3 was when trying to downshift into 1st gear at certain speeds. It was clearly resisting. Fixed that by going w/ DCT on the next lease.

1st-to-2nd shifts were, however, grinding. In my case, it was always at low-RPM shifts. High-RPM/WOT 1st-to-2nd shifts were always smooth.
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      06-10-2011, 01:03 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
It is well-documented that the 1 to 2 shift under high rpms is generally unsuccessful when shifting extremely fast.

The bigger issue is the associated damage caused by that grinding.

Also, notchiness in low gear shifts at any speed is a current concern. My SA says there is an SiB for this. I will have more details in a few weeks.
Keep me posted in this thread, I'd love to hear what information you get!
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      06-16-2011, 02:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LateBraking View Post
I've driven a few people's E9X M3's because they thought they had transmission issues, turns out one or two of them weren't shifting very well, the rest of them were just being paranoid. I think if you have straight issues, you'd know.
Speaking of paranoia, I need you to drive my car again.
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      06-16-2011, 02:12 PM   #37
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Speaking of paranoia, I need you to drive my car again.
What's the issue?

Just as a follow up: My SA said there is an SIB for this, but I have yet to take it in. I was out of town for a while, and when I came back I fell back in love with the car, 6MT and all. I'm waiting to see if things get worse or if another issues comes up before I take it in. Sure, it's hard to downshift into the 2nd gear gate, but i think my E46 was the same way.
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      06-16-2011, 02:38 PM   #38
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Question

Not too sure if I have the same problem or if I have any problems at all but....

Up-shift from 1-2 and particularly from 2-3 feels as if I'm trying to push the stick through a bowl of large pebbles (lot's of intermittent resistance). When I up-shift on the higher gears (4-5) I only feel a single "thunk".

This all happens before I engage the clutch bellow 3000RPM.

It also spitted me out once from 1st gear into neutral. I'm leaning to think that I did not got the stick all the way in but it's still making me nervous.
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      06-16-2011, 05:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
What's the issue?
Well similar to what Ive read here, really. 2nd and 3rd gear intermittent grinding. I also have the 3rd to 2nd revmatch issue.

And my clutch....I need to feel someone elses clutch....cuz it seems mighty soft....like a marshmellow. I drove my friends e46m3 last night and the clutch pretty much wanted to pop out on its own, granted its a different beast altogether.
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      06-16-2011, 05:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apolonios View Post
Not too sure if I have the same problem or if I have any problems at all but....

Up-shift from 1-2 and particularly from 2-3 feels as if I'm trying to push the stick through a bowl of large pebbles (lot's of intermittent resistance). When I up-shift on the higher gears (4-5) I only feel a single "thunk".

This all happens before I engage the clutch bellow 3000RPM.

It also spitted me out once from 1st gear into neutral. I'm leaning to think that I did not got the stick all the way in but it's still making me nervous.
again, if you have a 2008, it's worth taking it in and having the shop foreman take a look. not sure what the details of the SIB are, but if it results in replacement of the entire tranny, it must be a problem. I just don't want to go through all that right now, when mine is 98% fine. If you feel the same way, then just ride it out for now. Just remember, that's an option.
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      06-17-2011, 10:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
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Was this issue 1st and 2nd gear grind affecting only 2008 M3s or does it affect 2009 thru 2011 as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
'Baulking' I experienced w/ 2008 M3 was when trying to downshift into 1st gear at certain speeds. It was clearly resisting. Fixed that by going w/ DCT on the next lease.

1st-to-2nd shifts were, however, grinding. In my case, it was always at low-RPM shifts. High-RPM/WOT 1st-to-2nd shifts were always smooth.
I had similar problems with my 2011, so it might be the whole model run.

Dealer, and BMW corporate could not find any other poeple with probs with 1-2 low RPM grinding. They thought for the first few months that I was the problems. Then I video taped a very slow methodical 1-2 shift at about 2500 rpms. CLearly showed that I wasn't causing the problem. Mine only occurred on the first or second 1-2 shift after the car sat for several hours and the trans was cool. Once normal operating temp was reached is shifted normally. I went through 3 gearboxes, clutch, throwout bearing, the master cylinders, and changed the fluid. Never figured out if it was a 2nd gear synchro problem with the factory gearbox, or if something was wrong with my car's drivetrain. In the end, they gave up, and I traded it for a new DCT fitted car.
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      06-18-2011, 01:58 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
Does anyone know if 08 6MTs that have received a completely new transmission by dealers is warranty work being done pursuant to a TSB of any kind? If so, does anyone have the specific number handy? How about an SIB #?

Who here has had their tranny replaced? Did you have any issues following replacement?

I have seen many members on here talk about 1 -> 2 grind, and otherwise, in the absence of grinding, complain of just a notchy second or third gear, and they have had their entire tranny replaced by BMW under warranty.

I would like to be able to reference the specific TSB # if possible next time I go in to see if I'm eligible for this (assuming that it did not make matters worse..). I have grinded a few times in my day and have some general notchiness.
Thanks!
Please see my other thread from yesterday:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=1#post9843259

I have heavy 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd gear crunch. When I select 5th gear if I have the shifter over to the right side of the slot it will get stuck. It feels like there is a notch on the right side of the slot that catches the shifter ever time and will present a horrible grind if I catch that notch. For 5th gear I have to slide over into the 5th/6th slot and then force it left as I go up into 5th gear to get a clean gear choice. This takes deliberate action and a very very delayed shift pattern. Forget about quick shifting on my gearbox. I bet I run 0-60 in 8 seconds due to the gearbox.


I would be very happy to know if you have any advice on how to go about talking with my dealer to get a working transmission installed under warranty. As I mentioned earlier they say it's a clutch problem and wont honor the warranty on anythnig related to the clutch.
Thanks for your time,
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      06-18-2011, 02:21 AM   #43
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i got my entire tranny replaced cause of the 1st and 2nd grind... well it was a grind and having hard time putting it in 1st and 2nd...


EDIT: ill see if i can find the records regarding that replacement... wasnt sure if it was a TSB... i think PUMA suggested that the entire tranny must be replace after replacing the 1st and 2nd gear and synchro and still did not work.
I was pretty sure that BMW does not do any work on transmissions inside the US other than a direct swap. All work on the getrag 6MTs are done offshore and are swapped with a rebuild by BMW. So basically to replace a syncro they're going to do a full transmission swap.
Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
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      06-18-2011, 02:24 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Seattle S65B40 View Post
OK. Just went out and drove the car again, and tried to assess my MT in the most objective way possible. I definitely feel significant resistance and notchiness when trying to downshift from 3 to 2 at virtually any speed. I'm not double clutching btw, i don't think i should have to... 1 to 2 is not too bad. What do others feel when trying to get into 2nd from 3rd? Is that normal?

My SA is looking into SIBs and TSBs to see what she can do. It sounds like I will be taking it in for this issue at some point and I will not raise grinding, as I think that would happen from time to time, even if they replaced the tranny, and I don't want to go through having that verified. The tech should easily be able to verify my complaint of difficulty getting into second without having to drive the car very far or hard at all.

i have 21,000 miles btw...


Edit: even with double-clutching, it's doing it. Under harder driving, it's not bad and I will really have to sleep on it if my SA eventually tells me it needs to be replaced.

Just a tip, once you are entering the 2nd gear slot, try going down and to the right a little as you go down, not just directly down. That helps with my 2nd gear grind a lot, but I'm going to still ask my dealer about it for the 10th time.
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