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      06-06-2011, 11:24 AM   #45
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
I didn't say anything about performance . It's a miracle the performance GM gets out of those engines, but it's still arcaic technology . It's obviously more compact size to size due to 1 cam vs 4, 16V vs 32, no valve timing vs quad VANOS, 1 TB vs EIGHT... etc. And yes, it's barely more powerful but you're talking 6.2 vs 4 liters.
And your point would be, what, exactly. Is power per cc your primary criterion for comparing engines?

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Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
And the better fuel economy is not due to the engine itself, but light car weight and tranny ratios. Put that same engine on an M3 and it'd be rated at 12-16 rather than 14-20 . Remember the 16 rating is only due to the 1-4 skipshift crap, and the Vette weighs at least 500 lbs less than the M3. Mine had dismal fuel economy in the city with the skipshift bypassed.
The Vette weighs around 250 pounds less than the M3, typically around 3350 vs 3600 or so. Even so, the Camaro with the same engine, weighing nearly 300 pounds more than the M3, gets 16-24. The transmission ratios are part of the deal, but they are well matched to the LS3 torque curve, and all wrong for the M3. You should be aware that the skip-shift "feature" (I hate it myself) is there primarily for noise attenuation in order to pass the California (and now other states) drive-by noise standards. They get to go by in fourth gear. There may be a slight mileage benefit due to very slightly less friction after the shift out of first, but it's basically negligible.

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Yes, it's a great car for the money, but it's almost all plastic, pushrod engine, rental car interior, and even an ALL leaf-springs suspension. And yes, I was thinking of trading the M3 for one, due to their simplicity, but couldn't get something decent for it, so will keep it. I love some of the technology on the M3, but am tired of throwing money away on cars because it doesn't make economical sense to keep them after warranty. With a Vette, I could fix almost anything, and it'd be immensely cheaper as well. And a lot less likely to fail in the first place. Different perspectives. Have a good one gang.
1) If you are a technology fan, point taken about pushrods. If you're a fan of results, the point is moot.

2) If the M3 had the Vette leaf springs, it would handle as well and would definitely be lighter. Those leaf springs are essentially an engineering tour de force.

Bruce
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      06-06-2011, 04:55 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
2) If the M3 had the Vette leaf springs, it would handle as well and would definitely be lighter. Those leaf springs are essentially an engineering tour de force.
As much as the somewhat low tech approach of certain Corvette systems do not appeal to me from a technical perspective, you can not argue with results. Bruce is spot on here. The transverse composite leaf spring rear set up on the Vette (Z06 and ZR1) is not your father's pick up truck leaf spring set up. It is light, highly refined and effective. That being said the GT2 C6.R Vette did go with an upgraded to the leaf spring set up to a full coil over in the rear. From that we can conclude either the performance or adjustability dictated the upgrade. I would guess a bit of both, not just adjustability. So even though we might conclude there is a bit more performance to be had from a more traditional rear suspension set up for the production Vette, you simply can not argue with its handling prowess.
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      06-06-2011, 05:11 PM   #47
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Being a former e92 m3 owner, swapping into the z06. The comparison is apples to oranges, but one thing that stands out night and day is the fact my m3 was a dude magnet, while the vette hands down wins the attention from females.

I dont think that will change with the c7's
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      06-08-2011, 10:17 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
As much as the somewhat low tech approach of certain Corvette systems do not appeal to me from a technical perspective, you can not argue with results. Bruce is spot on here. The transverse composite leaf spring rear set up on the Vette (Z06 and ZR1) is not your father's pick up truck leaf spring set up. It is light, highly refined and effective. That being said the GT2 C6.R Vette did go with an upgraded to the leaf spring set up to a full coil over in the rear. From that we can conclude either the performance or adjustability dictated the upgrade. I would guess a bit of both, not just adjustability. So even though we might conclude there is a bit more performance to be had from a more traditional rear suspension set up for the production Vette, you simply can not argue with its handling prowess.
I would postulate that, in this case, performance is adjustability. I can't see how you could adjust the transverse leaf springs in any meaningful way, so you'd need to have a bunch of those lying around, with various curvatures and spring rates applying to various tracks, and/or conditions.

Given the nature of those springs, the setup would be somewhat complex, and the cost would be fiendish.

Better to have easy, on track adjustability with tried-and-true coilovers.

Bruce

PS - I'm surprised they don't have coilovers in front, as well. Thought they did.
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      06-08-2011, 04:46 PM   #49
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Quote:
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PS - I'm surprised they don't have coilovers in front, as well. Thought they did.
The GT2 C6.R does indeed have front and rear coilovers.
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      06-09-2011, 10:59 AM   #50
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^+1, and room for 4-5 people, and a useable trunk....
I don't believe anyone buys a Corvette because of comfort. I would assume the performance is the main idea.
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      06-09-2011, 11:32 AM   #51
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[quote=red-sauerkraut;9739413]What a bunch of morons... Did Obama approve this?
QUOTE]

no, Sarah did. Obama fixed it though.
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      06-12-2011, 02:01 AM   #52
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What a bunch of morons... Did Obama approve this?

Exactly the kind of mindset that killed/Bankrupted the company in the first place.
I love your cartman avatar.

And I threw up when I saw turbo.
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      06-12-2011, 04:08 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Kartelli View Post
Being a former e92 m3 owner, swapping into the z06. The comparison is apples to oranges, but one thing that stands out night and day is the fact my m3 was a dude magnet, while the vette hands down wins the attention from females.

I dont think that will change with the c7's
Interesting, very interesting... I guess that depends on what kind of females. The Corvette groupies just don't do it for me, but hey, that's me.
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      06-12-2011, 04:44 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Tobbep View Post
I don't believe anyone buys a Corvette because of comfort. I would assume the performance is the main idea.
But its quite comfortable, enough to be a DD.
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      06-12-2011, 11:52 PM   #55
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Interesting, very interesting... I guess that depends on what kind of females. The Corvette groupies just don't do it for me, but hey, that's me.
Sl^ts will be sl^ts. Ideally you shouldn't need a fancy car to pick up women, be it BMW or Corvette.
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