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      06-01-2011, 10:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
Then you DON'T want the Paul Ryan budget that the Republicans just passed in the House. It would require 6 more votes to increase the debt ceiling over the next 10 years.

This whole thing is a joke, because the Republican's own budget far out-spends the current debt ceiling by trillions of dollars. That's why the Republicans were up all night calling their Wall Street buddies telling them not to put any weight on this vote, because it was all just smoke and mirrors. Too bad the international and small investors didn't get the message, so the stock market tanked today because of the House's game playing.


Sadly, you seem to actually BELIEVE the BS the Republicans are slinging. Do you actually believe the Republicans are going to hold the national debt at 14.3 trillion? Seriously??? I bet you thought Bush was going to be a fiscal conservative when you voted for him, who would cut the deficit instead of doubling it. When will you folks realize you are being lied to by the very folks who's legs you hump?
You assume far too much. I do not support the Republican budget. I support cutting the budget relentlessly. Thought I have not followed him closely at all, what I do understand of him, I would say that the votes I would advocate would be closest tor Ron Paul.

When George W. Bush was running for the Republican nomination, I supported Alan Keyes. He was my candidate, and I still like him very much.

After George W. Bush was nominated, and November came around, I voted for the lesser of two evils, which was GWB.

I did not like George W. Bush. I never considered him to be a fiscal conservative, or up to the difficult task of saying no to his own party's Congress. I did like some of his actions on issues of concern to Christians. I supported his approach to dealing with terrorism with the understanding that the threat was imminent and grave. That time has passed. The threat from terrorism is neither imminent, nor grave any longer. It is time to regain our liberty.
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      06-01-2011, 11:09 PM   #24
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You assume far too much. I do not support the Republican budget. I support cutting the budget relentlessly. Thought I have not followed him closely at all, what I do understand of him, I would say that the votes I would advocate would be closest tor Ron Paul.

When George W. Bush was running for the Republican nomination, I supported Alan Keyes. He was my candidate, and I still like him very much.

After George W. Bush was nominated, and November came around, I voted for the lesser of two evils, which was GWB.

I did not like George W. Bush. I never considered him to be a fiscal conservative, or up to the difficult task of saying no to his own party's Congress. I did like some of his actions on issues of concern to Christians. I supported his approach to dealing with terrorism with the understanding that the threat was imminent and grave. That time has passed. The threat from terrorism is neither imminent, nor grave any longer. It is time to regain our liberty.
Yet you openly state that you voted THREE TIMES for the Bush's, and you say you will vote for a Republican again, even though NONE of them will actually ever pass any legislation like you claim you want.

These are the "winners" you brag about in this thread? How great they have done at failing to pass any legislation at all?


PS -- I can't believe you got suckered into the "vote Republican to protect the US against Al Qaida/Osama Bin Laden" crap. Sucker.
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      06-01-2011, 11:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
Yet you openly state that you voted THREE TIMES for the Bush's, and you say you will vote for a Republican again, even though NONE of them will actually ever pass any legislation like you claim you want.

These are the "winners" you brag about in this thread? How great they have done at failing to pass any legislation at all?


PS -- I can't believe you got suckered into the "vote Republican to protect the US against Al Qaida/Osama Bin Laden" crap. Sucker.
What Republican did I say I would vote for in the upcoming election? In voting for the Bush's, as I have stated before, I was voting for the lesser of two evils. I no longer consider myself constrained to vote for one of the two evils. There are others who can receive votes.

What was your excuse for your votes?

The vote for the presidency in 2000 was before the "Al Qaida/Osama Bin Laden crap." Were you old enough to have been there, or to know what was going on?
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      06-02-2011, 12:40 AM   #26
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What Republican did I say I would vote for in the upcoming election? ?
Ron Paul. You practically hump his leg all the way across the entire Politics/Religion forum. You even genuflect to him right here in this thread.

Are you aware that he is a Republican?


After decades of voting shitty "lesser of two evils" Republicans into office, and getting crappy results, why repeat yourself?


My age and votes are none of your fucking business. Stop phishing.
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      06-02-2011, 07:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
Ron Paul. You practically hump his leg all the way across the entire Politics/Religion forum. You even genuflect to him right here in this thread.

Are you aware that he is a Republican?


After decades of voting shitty "lesser of two evils" Republicans into office, and getting crappy results, why repeat yourself?


My age and votes are none of your fucking business. Stop phishing.
A Libertarian by any other name is still a Libertarian. A socialist by any other name is still a socialist.

I do not expect to vote for Ron Paul in any general election (I don't expect to see him on the ballot), and he will not likely be on the ballot for the primaries in my state. And even if Ron Paul appeared on the Republican primary ballot, we may have a closed primary by then. I will not register with the Republican party, so in that situation I would not be able to vote for Ron Paul. Chances are good that I will vote for a Constitution Party, or Libertarian Party candidate at the time of any actual votes.

It just happened I got to vote for the Constitution Party candidate in both votes 2-1/2 and 3 years ago, and he was endorsed by Ron Paul in the general election. Though Ron Paul is running as Republican, he is as close to Libertarian as there is in U.S. government.

Picture this. If I am a leg humper for Ron Paul, what do you do for Obama? Practically the only posts I see by you are attempts to protect Obama as if he were your god or yourself.
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      06-02-2011, 12:58 PM   #28
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A Libertarian by any other name is still a Libertarian. A socialist by any other name is still a socialist.

A Republican who is a member of the Republican Party, who runs as a Republican in a Republican primary is a Republican. Ron Paul is a Republican, which makes PaulTards who bend their knee to him Republican supporters.

It is funny to see you twist and dodge from your decade's long history of voting exclusively for one "Don't Tax and Spend Like a Drunken Sailor" Republican President after another. You've voted for Presidents to double the US debt not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES.


You will keep being disappointed as long as you keep voting for Presidents who have Tax Cut Tourette's who think a tax cut is the solution to everything, including your granny's gout.
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      06-02-2011, 09:32 PM   #29
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Fact based on what exactly?? And i want to see hard evidence and not just random BS words like every idiot that loves Obama has randomly spitted out here so far with out backing up a single word.

So you either have hard facts and evidence to back it up or GTFO and stay out!
It's easy ... I'll quote some of my favorite communists:

Quote:
Originally Posted by some Commie
“The full consequences of a default – or even the serious prospect of default – by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and the value of the dollar.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by another commie
the people who are threatening not to pass the debt ceiling are our version of Al-Qaeda terrorists.’
Quote:
Originally Posted by super commie
Congress consistently brings the government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility. This brinksmanship threatens the holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would occur in financial markets, and the Federal deficit would soar.
It's really common sense. We run out of money in May (really more like July). If we can't take out further loans to pay for things, we literally can't pay for anything.

Think of this way. You 'own' a business. You take out loans to pay payroll. If you can no longer take out loans to pay payroll, then your business closes. This is actually what has happened with many small businesses over the past few years as lending had tightened. The same theory applies to the government. No loans = no paying for ANYTHING. And then the world-wide markets go into a tailspin again. A global depression.

Simple theory.

Reducing spending by 20% and not raising the debt ceiling won't even work. We still need to borrow money to pay for things.

Republicans all agree with this. They just like to demand cuts to appease their base. They all know they eventually have to vote for the debt ceiling to be raised.
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      06-02-2011, 09:37 PM   #30
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I am dead serious that the debt ceiling should not be raised one cent. What needs to happen is to cut the federal budget far further than you could even fathom. It would be best to cut the federal budget to the point where you no longer recognize it as the same government. In fact, it would not be the same government. It would be closer to what it was when this nation was better. That was when a state was much more than just a political sub-division.
I don't think you understand that EVEN with cuts, we STILL have to raise the debt ceiling.

Why don't you grasp this. EVERY Republican knows this. Boehner has said it many times that he knows we have to raise it.

Why don't you listen to him?

The United States would cease to exist without a strong federal government. Nuclear bombs, etc... EVERYWHERE.
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      06-02-2011, 10:25 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 1997gtx View Post
It's easy ... I'll quote some of my favorite communists:

It's really common sense. We run out of money in May (really more like July). If we can't take out further loans to pay for things, we literally can't pay for anything.

Think of this way. You 'own' a business. You take out loans to pay payroll. If you can no longer take out loans to pay payroll, then your business closes. This is actually what has happened with many small businesses over the past few years as lending had tightened. The same theory applies to the government. No loans = no paying for ANYTHING. And then the world-wide markets go into a tailspin again. A global depression.

Simple theory.

Reducing spending by 20% and not raising the debt ceiling won't even work. We still need to borrow money to pay for things.

Republicans all agree with this. They just like to demand cuts to appease their base. They all know they eventually have to vote for the debt ceiling to be raised.
Communists? .. What?? Are you a communist???


If i have a business, and if i cont to take out loans that i cant repay, at some point i will go in to default and the bank will take my business. Banks have a time limit and rules and lots of paper work for them to take you to court with and shut you down.

So why would i take a loan knowing i will never be able to repay it? Thats just stupid! Instead i would cut back on my spendings until i can afford to spend money on more things.

And if i cant get a loan, then i fire people and cut back on my spending till i can get back in the green.


Its economics 101.
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      06-02-2011, 10:28 PM   #32
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Communists? .. What?? Are you a communist???


If i have a business, and if i cont to take out loans that i cant repay, at some point i will go in to default and the bank will take my business.

So why would i take a loan knowing i will never be able to repay it? Thats just stupid! Instead i would cut back on my spendings until i can afford to spend money on more things.

And if i cant get a loan, then i fire people and cut back on my spending till i can get back in the green.


Its economics 101.
So you don't agree with my quotes? You think they're crazy just because they're communists?

You take the loan knowing/thinking you CAN repay it. You rely on business coming in to repay loans. Most small businesses take out loans to pay payroll. It's common practice. That's why so many small businesses went under over the past few years. When banks stopped lending money, small businesses couldn't exist anymore.
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      06-02-2011, 10:36 PM   #33
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Communists? .. What?? Are you a communist???


If i have a business, and if i cont to take out loans that i cant repay, at some point i will go in to default and the bank will take my business. Banks have a time limit and rules and lots of paper work for them to take you to court with and shut you down.

So why would i take a loan knowing i will never be able to repay it? Thats just stupid! Instead i would cut back on my spendings until i can afford to spend money on more things.

And if i cant get a loan, then i fire people and cut back on my spending till i can get back in the green.


Its economics 101.

There are two ways to make a business run the the black.

Page 1) Decrease expenses.
Page 2) Increase Revenue.

That's econ 101. Sadly, the Republicans haven't bothered to read past Page 1. If you rely upon only decreasing expenses and ignore increasing revenue, businesses shrink.

Since businesses do NOT operate in a vacuum, other businesses will competitively step in and take over market share and eventually drive the business that ignores increasing revenue out of business.

Governments are the same way. If all we ever do is shrink ourselves, other governments will compete with us and take over the global position we abandon.
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      06-02-2011, 10:36 PM   #34
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So you don't agree with my quotes? You think they're crazy just because they're communists?

You take the loan knowing/thinking you CAN repay it. You rely on business coming in to repay loans. Most small businesses take out loans to pay payroll. It's common practice. That's why so many small businesses went under over the past few years. When banks stopped lending money, small businesses couldn't exist anymore.

I dont even know who they are or where you got those quotes from.

Thinking that you CAN repay, is not same thing as KNOWING that you CAN repay. And Federal Govnt cant repay squat right now or for another 10 years. Because they are not doing anything to stop all the extreme spending. And there is not enough income to bring us back form debt.

Have you seen this? http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Its just going and going and going down the hole of dept.

Raising the the limit will put this country in to more debt. If we raise it some more, then we will go in to more debt. To the point where the economy and this country will collapse, and any other country with enough cash will simply buy us out.
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      06-02-2011, 10:51 PM   #35
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I dont even know who they are or where you got those quotes from.

Thinking that you CAN repay, is not same thing as KNOWING that you CAN repay. And Federal Govnt cant repay squat right now or for another 10 years. Because they are not doing anything to stop all the extreme spending. And there is not enough income to bring us back form debt.

Have you seen this? http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Its just going and going and going down the hole of dept.

Raising the the limit will put this country in to more debt. If we raise it some more, then we will go in to more debt. To the point where the economy and this country will collapse, and any other country with enough cash will simply buy us out.
The quotes are important because they are true. You don't think they are? You think those who said them are wrong? Misguided? Misinformed? What?
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      06-02-2011, 10:55 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
There are two ways to make a business run the the black.

Page 1) Decrease expenses.
Page 2) Increase Revenue.

That's econ 101. Sadly, the Republicans haven't bothered to read past Page 1. If you rely upon only decreasing expenses and ignore increasing revenue, businesses shrink.
Thank you. I agree. Let's shrink federal government like a deflated balloon. Then we can also shrink federal government taxation.

[In case you haven't noticed before, I suggest the states then decide, with their own electorate, what they want their OWN state government to do.]
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      06-02-2011, 10:58 PM   #37
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The quotes are important because they are true. You don't think they are? You think those who said them are wrong? Misguided? Misinformed? What?

Im too sober to digest them. Thats my honest answer.
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      06-02-2011, 11:00 PM   #38
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Im too sober to digest them. Thats my honest answer.
LOL ... Honesty = best policy.
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      06-02-2011, 11:09 PM   #39
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It's easy ... I'll quote some of my favorite communists:
Some would probably call those the words of a pragmatist. It could be a Republican, a Democrat, or something else. In any case, it is someone who favors the status quo over change. And beyond the status quo, the continuation of the move to larger government influence. That move may seem like the least painful alternative, but an alcoholic goes through a tough time when they quit drinking. Maybe we are overdue for this correction.

I would like to see a gentle glide to smaller government, but that never happens. It only inflates itself, and has become gargantuan. If it cannot be deflated, it will pop on it's own and then it is worse than it could have been.

I hope that isn't too many metaphors for you.
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      06-02-2011, 11:15 PM   #40
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Yet you openly state that you voted THREE TIMES for the Bush's,
I've gotta correct you there. It was five times.

1984 for VP, 1988 for P, 1992 for P, 2000 for P, 2004 for P. Only in the general elections.

They were perhaps better than Ferraro, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry. Maybe only marginally better.

Unfortunately it left us with two parties of tyranny, rather than a party for tyranny, a party for liberty, and perhaps more parties.
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      06-02-2011, 11:17 PM   #41
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Some would probably call those the words of a pragmatist. It could be a Republican, a Democrat, or something else. In any case, it is someone who favors the status quo over change. And beyond the status quo, the continuation of the move to larger government influence. That move may seem like the least painful alternative, but an alcoholic goes through a tough time when they quit drinking. Maybe we are overdue for this correction.

I would like to see a gentle glide to smaller government, but that never happens. It only inflates itself, and has become gargantuan. If it cannot be deflated, it will pop on it's own and then it is worse than it could have been.

I hope that isn't too many metaphors for you.
That's fine, but does not address the fundamental question of: do we raise the debt ceiling? The communists I quoted say yes. What say you?
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      06-02-2011, 11:20 PM   #42
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That's fine, but does not address the fundamental question of: do we raise the debt ceiling? The communists I quoted say yes. What say you?
I say absolutely not. Cut the federal government by half it that's what it takes. Once the budget is balanced and continuing to shrink, then cut it some more.

A debtor who is paying on too big a house should downsize. This government is the biggest debtor the world has ever known. It must decline.
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      06-02-2011, 11:27 PM   #43
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Thank you. I agree. Let's shrink federal government like a deflated balloon. Then we can also shrink federal government taxation.

[In case you haven't noticed before, I suggest the states then decide, with their own electorate, what they want their OWN state government to do.]

I already know that you want to destroy the US economy by multiplying by 50 all the bureaucracy that businesses already have to deal with. You've said it all before. What you are calling for would result in:

50 different emissions standards
50 different health care standards
50 different banking standards
50 different environmental standards
50 different book keeping standards
50 different investment/retirement standards
50 times the political corruption

I can't think of anything more damaging to businesses in the US than having 50 different standards replacing each and every current Federal standard. The destructive force on businesses being thown off a cliff into that ever-moving chaos would hammer the final nail in the coffin of the US economy.

Gone would be any ability for companies to plan. Uncertainty would be through the roof as any single state could change anything anytime. Big companies would become mired in lobbying, spending all their time wrangling corrupt wildcat small-time local political hacks with axes to grind.

What you call choice, I call market uncertainty on a level never seen before. You will destroy our country, but at least you will have choices, right?

Like I just got done saying, the United States is in a competitive market. If you make 50 different markets out of the United States, we lose the global economic fight. Our strength is in our unity. This is true in both the geopolitical theater and in the global economic competitive market.
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      06-02-2011, 11:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
I already know that you want to destroy the US economy by multiplying by 50 all the bureaucracy that businesses already have to deal with. You've said it all before. What you are calling for would result in:

50 different emissions standards
50 different health care standards
50 different banking standards
50 different environmental standards
50 different book keeping standards
50 different investment/retirement standards
50 times the political corruption

I can't think of anything more damaging to businesses in the US than having 50 different standards replacing each and every current Federal standard. The destructive force on businesses being thown off a cliff into that ever-moving chaos would hammer the final nail in the coffin of the US economy.

Gone would be any ability for companies to plan. Uncertainty would be through the roof as any single state could change anything anytime. Big companies would become mired in lobbying, spending all their time wrangling corrupt wildcat small-time local political hacks with axes to grind.

What you call choice, I call market uncertainty on a level never seen before. You will destroy our country, but at least you will have choices, right?

Like I just got done saying, the United States is in a competitive market. If you make 50 different markets out of the United States, we lose the global economic fight. Our strength is in our unity. This is true in both the geopolitical theater and in the global economic competitive market.
That looks like a copy paste of something you put up here before. You could have just linked to it.

You assume there would be 50 different everything. I doubt that. Each state would either craft original regulation, not regulate, or use regulations common to others. The total of different regulation would be something less than 50 in each of these categories.

I favor decentralization of power. That goes for business as well as government. If small businesses were enabled by keeping things closer to local, then I would applaud.

Again, it is all about decentralizing. This is freedom and liberty.
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