BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-24-2011, 07:34 PM   #89
Jean@ActiveAutowerke
Lieutenant
 
Jean@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 335
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami

Posts: 540
iTrader: (0)

Rather than concocting a meaningless list of OE water cooled cars like a failed science experiment or dying argument, lets talk performance. Performance is why we supercharge our cars, correct?

Lets talk Porsche, no more Mustang, sorry guys. I would assume Porsche knows a little something about performance, F/I and racing. If you disagree please post a few valid points.

Lets go back to 1978 and highlight the Porsche 935.
Quote:
935 K3 - An attempt to mimic the Evolution bodywork on the factory 935/78s. The most successful 935 variant, due to its technical advantage running an air/air intercooler instead of the air/water units used by the Porsche factory. Winner of Le Mans 24 Hours in 1979.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremer_Racing
Wikipedia is not always the best source but above is a fact. Look it up, info is out there.

As we all know all recent Porsche's are air to air.

See how easy that is.

_____

I'm pretty sure Jaypod is on the correct side of the fence.
Jean@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 07:37 PM   #90
akh23456
All I do is Win... Eat Race Sleep
 
akh23456's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philly

Posts: 2,079
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2009 M3  [4.28]
2013 f10 M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Rather than concocting a meaningless list of OE water cooled cars like a failed science experiment or dying argument, lets talk performance. Performance is why we supercharge our cars, correct?

Lets talk Porsche, no more Mustang, sorry guys. I would assume Porsche knows a little something about performance, F/I and racing. If you disagree please post a few valid points.

Lets go back to 1978 and highlight the Porsche 935.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremer_Racing
Wikipedia is not always the best source but above is a fact. Look it up, info is out there.

As we all know all recent Porsche's are air to air.

See how easy that is.

_____

I'm pretty sure Jaypod is on the correct side.
__________________

F10 M5: 11.546 127.41 with a 1.938 60ft Street Tires
E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires
akh23456 is offline   United_States
0
      05-24-2011, 07:39 PM   #91
Jean@ActiveAutowerke
Lieutenant
 
Jean@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 335
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami

Posts: 540
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by akh23456 View Post
Oh yea. You too, didn't want to leave you out, Jaypod and akh23456
Jean@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 07:49 PM   #92
Alex@Autocouture
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Alex@Autocouture's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3, E92 Frozen GTS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ny

Posts: 3,396
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2011.75 E90 BMW M3  [3.83]
2011 bmw/ m3  [0.00]
technology has come a long way since 1978
Alex@Autocouture is online now  
0
      05-24-2011, 07:50 PM   #93
spdu4ea
Custom User Title
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CA

Posts: 105
iTrader: (0)

spdu4ea is offline   United_States
0
      05-24-2011, 08:12 PM   #94
Alex@Autocouture
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Alex@Autocouture's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3, E92 Frozen GTS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ny

Posts: 3,396
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2011.75 E90 BMW M3  [3.83]
2011 bmw/ m3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdu4ea View Post
such a nice build up
Alex@Autocouture is online now  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:12 PM   #95
AJ@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA

Posts: 199
iTrader: (0)

If we are going to compare cherry-picked pulls, then here is a ESS VT2 on straight 93AKI. No water/meth is used.
Attached Images
 
AJ@ESS is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:21 PM   #96
Jean@ActiveAutowerke
Lieutenant
 
Jean@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 335
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami

Posts: 540
iTrader: (0)

If it is a battle of dyno charts you're looking for, then you can have that battle... Glory runs really mean nothing to me nor do I have to time to play such silly games.

You win...

Thanks for acknowledging my post with healthy discussion... Obviously you are not capable of such things...

Keep in mind history has a funny way of repeating itself.
Jean@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:21 PM   #97
spdu4ea
Custom User Title
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CA

Posts: 105
iTrader: (0)

Come on now, AJ -- I don't have a dog in this fight. And last I checked AA doesn't even have a dynojet. Besides, that ESS run I posted could be considered a glory run of its own (IMG's dyno after getting a flash-loader and new custom tune).
spdu4ea is offline   United_States
0
      05-24-2011, 08:25 PM   #98
AJ@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA

Posts: 199
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spdu4ea View Post
Come on now, AJ -- I don't have a dog in this fight. And last I checked AA doesn't even have a dynojet. Besides, that ESS run I posted could be considered a glory run of its own (IMG's dyno after getting a flash-loader and new custom tune).
Reality is no customer of AA's E9x M3 Stage 2+ has ever come close to the 530whp they claim, we have many customers in the 580-600whp range on a kit we claim makes 530whp.
AJ@ESS is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:27 PM   #99
akh23456
All I do is Win... Eat Race Sleep
 
akh23456's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 M5
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philly

Posts: 2,079
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2009 M3  [4.28]
2013 f10 M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@ESS View Post
Reality is no customer of AA's E9x M3 Stage 2+ has ever come close to the 530whp they claim, we have many customers in the 580-600whp range on a kit we claim makes 530whp.
And reality should set in when your stage 1 535 kit that puts up more hp than me can't even break 120 mphs?
__________________

F10 M5: 11.546 127.41 with a 1.938 60ft Street Tires
E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires
akh23456 is offline   United_States
0
      05-24-2011, 08:28 PM   #100
m33
Banned
 
m33's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

Posts: 2,697
iTrader: (5)

How about this ......
I'm calling out any AA E9x SC'rd M3 on the east cost out for a friendly run.
let's compare AA's best to ESS's best on the road
m33 is offline   United_States
0
      05-24-2011, 08:29 PM   #101
spdu4ea
Custom User Title
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CA

Posts: 105
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@ESS View Post
Reality is no customer of AA's E9x M3 Stage 2+ has ever come close to the 530whp they claim
I'll give you that, so I could be eating my words later when there are more than 2 or 3 AA customer dynos. For now I'm not aware of a reason I shouldn't give AA the benefit of the doubt.
spdu4ea is offline   United_States
0
      05-24-2011, 08:33 PM   #102
Alex@Autocouture
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Alex@Autocouture's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3, E92 Frozen GTS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ny

Posts: 3,396
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2011.75 E90 BMW M3  [3.83]
2011 bmw/ m3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
How about this ......
I'm calling out any AA E9x SC'rd M3 on the east cost out for a friendly run.
let's compare AA's best to ESS's best on the road
why are you volunteering me...
Alex@Autocouture is online now  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:40 PM   #103
TheKosherStogie
Lieutenant Colonel
 
TheKosherStogie's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 M3 DCT AW/Red
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Hollywood

Posts: 1,594
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@ESS View Post
Reality is no customer of AA's E9x M3 Stage 2+ has ever come close to the 530whp they claim, we have many customers in the 580-600whp range on a kit we claim makes 530whp.
That seems to be m33, img, and dlsj5 but not most and they seem to have slightly altered set ups, trying custom tunes, tunes for the vt650 or diff pulleys.

What's up with a 600whp graph? Stock exhaust ?

I think both kits are great , but Till they run side by side...everyone should relax
__________________
13 E92 M3 ZCP
Stock w/Rs3 - WSIR 1:33:9 / BW C13 2:03:6 / ACS 1:56:7
KW CS w/Rs3 - WSIR 1:32:8 / BW C13 1:59:2 / ACS 1:55:1
APR Wing/Rs3 - WSIR 1:30:9 / BW C13 1:57:7
TheKosherStogie is offline   United_States
0
      05-24-2011, 08:40 PM   #104
tazam3
Private
 
Drives: Turbo M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SoCal

Posts: 84
iTrader: (0)

Let's not forget the years of manipulative marketing like using the same exact dyno chart for 2 different model cars (e46 e92) and posting it on forums trying to show power gains. If that doesn't kill a vendors credibility then I don't know what does!!! They have years of no proof dyno's, ESS is not new. Where were you guys 5 years ago when they would show bs dyno charts??

It is a fact that the most audible ESS guys on this forum have flash loaders with race files!! Come on now!

Since AJ thinks he is superior to the world and is very unprofessional. Here is a AA S54 car. Show me your S54 now!

tazam3 is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:42 PM   #105
Omar@ActiveAutowerke
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Miami

Posts: 1,783
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ@ESS View Post
Reality is no customer of AA's E9x M3 Stage 2+ has ever come close to the 530whp they claim, we have many customers in the 580-600whp range on a kit we claim makes 530whp.
Aj,

No need to attack a forum member, they are the very reason we are all in business. We have posted another thread with dyno information that you too can refer to. While we do commend you on building a good air to water system we decided to go the route best suited for street use. The fact is Jean has brought up some legitimate points and you continue to refer back to making X horsepower and have nothing to say regarding air to water systems or how extremely inefficient they become after a run or two.. Lastly to make it worse you have resorted to attacking fellow enthusiasts.

Thanks to everyone who was able to participate in this discussion and keep it on a mature level

Best Regards,

p.s. ... And Jean is right AJ, history does have a funny way of repeating itself
Omar@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:44 PM   #106
AJ@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA

Posts: 199
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD View Post
That seems to be m33, img, and dlsj5 but not most and they seem to have slightly altered set ups, trying custom tunes, tunes for the vt650 or diff pulleys.

What's up with a 600whp graph? Stock exhaust ?

I think both kits are great , but Till they run side by side...everyone should relax
600whp SAE runs a custom catless exhaust. We have been able to get 600whp STD from a stock 2007 Euro exhaust with cats during prototype testing.
AJ@ESS is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:47 PM   #107
AJ@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA

Posts: 199
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazam3 View Post
Let's not forget the years of manipulative marketing like using the same exact dyno chart for 2 different model cars (e46 e92) and posting it on forums trying to show power gains. If that doesn't kill a vendors credibility then I don't know what does!!! They have years of no proof dyno's, ESS is not new. Where were you guys 5 years ago when they would show bs dyno charts??

It is a fact that the most audible ESS guys on this forum have flash loaders with race files!! Come on now!

Since AJ thinks he is superior to the world and is very unprofessional. Here is a AA S54 car. Show me your S54 now!
This was an accident by a new sales guy and actually was showing less than the real E92 dyno, it was thourougly explained and documented. But I guess it is not possible to explain this to a guy on AA's marketing and smokescreen payroll..
AJ@ESS is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:49 PM   #108
AJ@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA

Posts: 199
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Aj,

No need to attack a forum member, they are the very reason we are all in business. We have posted another thread with dyno information that you too can refer to. While we do commend you on building a good air to water system we decided to go the route best suited for street use. The fact is Jean has brought up some legitimate points and you continue to refer back to making X horsepower and have nothing to say regarding air to water systems or how extremely inefficient they become after a run or two.. Lastly to make it worse you have resorted to attacking fellow enthusiasts.

Thanks to everyone who was able to participate in this discussion and keep it on a mature level

Best Regards,

p.s. ... And Jean is right AJ, history does have a funny way of repeating itself
Not attacking him at all, simply stating the facts.
AJ@ESS is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:50 PM   #109
Roman@ESS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Roman@ESS's Avatar
 
Drives: ESS Supercharged E92 M3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

Posts: 2,603
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean@ActiveAutowerke View Post
If it is a battle of dyno charts you're looking for, then you can have that battle... Glory runs really mean nothing to me nor do I have to time to play such silly games.

You win...

Thanks for acknowledging my post with healthy discussion... Obviously you are not capable of such things...

Keep in mind history has a funny way of repeating itself.
Jean

Come back and post up when your 625 HP kit can do the following. These are real world results of customers cars. Coming into a thread and marketing your kit as having a better design than ours when you have not got close to any of our benchmarks was a bit pre-mature.

6.7 sec 60-130

11.30 @ 129.34 MPH 1/4 mile

600 whp SAE

All I have seen so far from you in this thread is creative marketing and the proof that you can make more power than your customers on a dyno. Anytime you want to run your stage 2+ against our VT2-625 you let me know and I will make the arrangements.
Roman@ESS is offline  
0
      05-24-2011, 08:53 PM   #110
m33
Banned
 
m33's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

Posts: 2,697
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazam3 View Post
Let's not forget the years of manipulative marketing like using the same exact dyno chart for 2 different model cars (e46 e92) and posting it on forums trying to show power gains. If that doesn't kill a vendors credibility then I don't know what does!!! They have years of no proof dyno's, ESS is not new. Where were you guys 5 years ago when they would show bs dyno charts??

It is a fact that the most audible ESS guys on this forum have flash loaders with race files!! Come on now!

Since AJ thinks he is superior to the world and is very unprofessional. Here is a AA S54 car. Show me your S54 now!

Is this your dyno graph ?
m33 is offline   United_States
0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST