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      05-24-2011, 09:55 AM   #23
Jaypod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Studntloan View Post
Mhm, and img has no reason to feel insecure about his kit trust me both company's make great products but at the end of the day ess has a cheaper kit with better results and has proven to be reliable with no issues at all, and that's why counts when buying one of these
I didnt mention any names

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
Active is a good company no doubt about that !
But can you honesty sit there and tell everyone that getting 468whp for a kit claiming 625chp @ the price you paid a solid choice ??
I would be a little pissed if it were me ....
Then again maybe we all are jumping the gun and you might just have a boost/vaccum leak of some sort...

Good luck figuring it out ! :cheers:
Boost/ vacuum leak? I was told my kit would make 450rwhp I made 466rwhp - yep I am pissed

Hey but for me personally it's not about making the most hp - otherwise I would have bought a different car, not to mention something lighter.
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      05-24-2011, 10:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
SAE - I get what you are saying, but to be honest, from the outside it looks like a bunch of the ESS guys seem insecure and bash everyone else (just an observation) and was one of the reasons I never considered ESS. I dont doubt that ESS has a great kit, but so do the others.

The point of S/C'ing this car is to enjoy it and have fun. I track my car regularly and have passed many cars that have much more hp (and also been passed by cars with less for that matter!) The thing I love about my kit (obviously cant comment on the others as I havent driven them) is how it really keeps the characteristics of the OEM feel.

I wish more people would just have fun enjoying their cars instead of arguing on the internet, it really gets old.
I agree with u about what it seems like no doubt but from all what ive seen is that all ESS cars post there data all the time for an open discussion and for some reason other post AA data and when they do they are haters for some odd reason and trying to bash a vendor.ive delt with AA before and had a great experience with there product,and once again i never said that the AA kit was shit and my post is based on facts !!!
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      05-24-2011, 10:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
I didnt mention any names



Boost/ vacuum leak? I was told my kit would make 450rwhp I made 466rwhp - yep I am pissed

Hey but for me personally it's not about making the most hp - otherwise I would have bought a different car, not to mention something lighter.
Boost leak or vacuum leak is not something ur car suffering from,thats for the stage 2+,as mentioned before,im trying to figure out how come ur car a stage 1 puts down close to a stage 2+ ???
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      05-24-2011, 10:15 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Boost leak or vacuum leak is not something ur car suffering from,thats for the stage 2+,as mentioned before,im trying to figure out how come ur car a stage 1 puts down close to a stage 2+ ???
Obviously cant speak for the stage 2+ you posted - it would only be speculation. Unless the owners of those cars are in this thread, its kind of pointless. I would imagine that when I upgrade to 2+ I should make closer to 500rwhp - which would be fine by me. Since the Meth is used for cooling, not sure what kind of impact it will make on hp.

Another member who is local to me who doesnt post much, just recently had his AA S/C installed and will be taking it to the dyno soon. Hopefully he will share the numbers as its the same place I had my car dyno'd. Its Stage 2 without Meth.
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      05-24-2011, 10:20 AM   #27
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Does this really have to keep going on? Should we go back to the 116mph trap ESS car? Only trapped 3-4 mph higher then his N/A times..

The other funny part about this amazing dyno comparison is that the AA car goes to 8000rpm and the other goes to 8400rpm, how is that a fair comparison? You guys do realize a supercharger makes linear power right? Where is the boost logs for this run, where did you get the boost numbers from, kit information or actual dyno run boost logs?
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      05-24-2011, 10:25 AM   #28
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Here's both dyno results. Identical modifications except the
supercharger and meth. Same dyno testing procedure on both cars. Looks
like they also did a heat soak test on the ESS car, but not the Active car.

The first one is the Active car. According to the notes, Active
dictated the dyno testing procedures and had their dealer present at the
dyno. There's also video to document the procedures. Pretty hard to
call BS on that.

Car and Modifications:
  • 2008 BMW M3
  • Active Autowerke Stage-2 Supercharger
  • +Methanol Injection
  • 6MT
  • Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust
  • 91 Octane
Conditions:
  • Temparature:: 72.92 degrees F
  • Atmospheric pressure: 30.09 inHg
  • Humidity: 28%
  • SAE Correction: 0.97
  • STD Correction: 1.00
  • Uncorrected: 1.00
Results:
  • SAE Corrected: 465whp @ 8000 RPM, 334wtq @ 6250 RPM. 7.80 PSI
  • STD Corrected: 478whp, 343wtq
  • Uncorrected: 479whp, 344wtq
Dyno Database:Dyno
Graphs:


Boost Log Analysis: 7.70 PSI Average, 9.43 PSI
Peak



Video


Dyno Testing Procedures:
These procedures were specified by Active Autowerke. Since we were on
91 octane, methanol injection must be used. We originally intended to
conduct tests with and without methanol injection, but were advised not
to do so without 93 octane gasoline. We were instructed to run the dyno
and let the car cool down one minute between runs. At the end of three
runs, we were instructed to turn off the motor, let the engine cool for
ten minutes, then repeat the same testing procedure for three more runs.

In addition to capturing horsepower, torque, and engine RPM, we
originally intended to collect spark advance, and knock sensor data from
the OBD port via the Bavarian Technic scan tool (with thanks to Bren @
Bren Tuning for providing the necessary configuration file). However,
once we hooked up the BT tool to the OBD port, we discovered we could
not read any data from the OBD port using the BT tool. We did not try
to diagnose the problem since we were "on the clock" at the dyno shop.
We later found out this was caused by the Akrapovic Delete-R installed
in the system. We were therefore unable to capture any spark or knock
sensor data. If time permits, we plan to return to the dyno with the
same configuration, remove the Delete-R and re-test.

All of the dyno runs are filmed in HiDef video to document
the authenticity and independence of the tests. A Kestral 4500 portable
weather station is brought to take independent weather measurements.
This provides a cross-check for the dyno weather station to ensure that
the dyno weather station is reading accurately and has not been tampered
or altered in any way.


-----

Here's the ESS car on the same dyno, 24-hours later.

Car and Modifications:
  • 2009 BMW M3
  • ESS VT1-535 Supercharger
  • 6MT
  • Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust
  • 91 Octane
Conditions:
  • Temparature:: 74.58 degrees F
  • Atmospheric pressure: 30.20 inHg
  • Humidity: 27%
  • SAE Correction: 0.97
  • STD Correction: 1.00
  • Uncorrected: 1.00
Results:
  • SAE Corrected: 472whp @ 8325 RPM, 310wtq @ 7450 RPM. 5.80 PSI
  • STD Corrected: 485whp, 319wtq
  • Uncorrected: 487whp, 320wtq
Dyno Database:
All Dyno Runs -- SAE Corrected:


Boost Log Analysis -- 5.6 PSI Average, 6.14 PSI
Peak:



Dyno Testing Procedures:
After warming up the vehicle, we ran the dyno and let the car cool down
one minute between runs. At the end of three runs, we turned off the
motor, let the engine cool for ten minutes, then repeat the same testing
procedure for three more runs. The next three runs were done
20 seconds apart. Therefore the last four runs were all done 20 seconds
apart, and constituted our "heat soak" test.


All of the dyno runs are filmed in HiDef video to document
the authenticity and independence of the tests. A Kestral 4500 portable
weather station is brought to take independent weather measurements.
This provides a cross-check for the dyno weather station to ensure that
the dyno weather station is reading accurately and has not been tampered
or altered in any way.
__________________
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Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
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      05-24-2011, 10:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
I didnt mention any names



Boost/ vacuum leak? I was told my kit would make 450rwhp I made 466rwhp - yep I am pissed

Hey but for me personally it's not about making the most hp - otherwise I would have bought a different car, not to mention something lighter.
Oh snap I'm sorry I didnt know that it hit its figures , so where in the world does 625chp come from ?? I'm not being sarcastic btw , they should lower their claimed chp to match actuall whp .... No ?
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      05-24-2011, 10:33 AM   #30
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Wait jay what version AA kit so you have ?
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      05-24-2011, 10:34 AM   #31
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      05-24-2011, 10:35 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
Wait jay what version AA kit so you have ?
Hes got AA stage 1 which seems to be running very excellent !!
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LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
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      05-24-2011, 10:36 AM   #33
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If i'm not mistaken the red vehicle's air fuel ran in the 10's... Which would obviously provide results above. I was also updated that there was an issue with the 02 sensors...

Stating that the vehicle was dyno'd as per our specifications means nothing on a vehicle that was not operating properly... It should be making a second trip to the dyno once the issues and 02 sensors are taken care of.

As far as dyno info on our systems, see here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535345
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      05-24-2011, 10:42 AM   #34
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The ESS VT1-535 is my car and I will posting my review, an analysis, and a drag strip run with vbox later in the day.

Please don't make this out to be drama post with who is better than who.

For the record, I think Active makes some awesome kits and have talented people at Active Autowerks that contribute greatly to our community.

Let's not jump to conclusions, keep things civil, and have a DISCUSSION as a community.
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      05-24-2011, 10:44 AM   #35
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Im curious to know if some of you guys have day jobs or are retired and voluntarily work for ESS at this point?
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      05-24-2011, 10:44 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindless.spades View Post
The ESS VT1-535 is my car and I will posting my review, an analysis, and a drag strip run with vbox later in the day.

Please don't make this out to be drama post with who is better than who.

For the record, I think Active makes some awesome kits and have talented people at Active Autowerks that contribute greatly to our community.

Let's not jump to conclusions, keep things civil, and have a DISCUSSION as a community.
Looking forward to it and thanks for the kind words.
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      05-24-2011, 10:44 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean@ActiveAutowerke View Post
If i'm not mistaken the red vehicle's air fuel ran in the 10's... Which would obviously provide results above. I was also updated that there was an issue with the 02 sensors...

Stating that the vehicle was dyno'd as per our specifications means nothing on a vehicle that was not operating properly... It should be making a second trip to the dyno once the issues and 02 sensors are taken care of.

As far as dyno info on our systems, see here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535345
so are you saying the Akra delete-r affects the O2 readings ?
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LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
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      05-24-2011, 10:46 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazam3 View Post
Im curious to know if some of you guys have day jobs or are retired and voluntarily work for ESS at this point?
Should ask urself the same question since ur in the same thread !!!
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LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
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      05-24-2011, 10:48 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Should ask urself the same question since ur in the same thread !!!
You started this thread right? I don't see myself making dyno databases with a plethora of graphs or taking weather stations to a dyno to compare cars. Come on now...
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      05-24-2011, 10:49 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindless.spades View Post
The ESS VT1-535 is my car and I will posting my review, an analysis, and a drag strip run with vbox later in the day.

Please don't make this out to be drama post with who is better than who.

For the record, I think Active makes some awesome kits and have talented people at Active Autowerks that contribute greatly to our community.

Let's not jump to conclusions, keep things civil, and have a DISCUSSION as a community.
All what i did is post a dyno and ask for some questions based on facts,i didnt bash or put down anyone in any way,also mentioned that ive delt with AA in the past and nothing but a great product and great experience.
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LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
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      05-24-2011, 10:49 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazam3 View Post
Im curious to know if some of you guys have day jobs or are retired and voluntarily work for ESS at this point?
I'm the handy man that cleans the toilets and
Mops the floors lmao j/k
Car is making good power , didnt know it was a stage 1
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      05-24-2011, 10:51 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazam3 View Post
You started this thread right? I don't see myself making dyno databases with a plethora of graphs or taking weather stations to a dyno to compare cars. Come on now...
I did start the thread and makin a dyno database and graphs is to correct u cause u seem lost ( no disrespect)
if u dont like the thread dont get on it,why bother!!!
u r just looking for something to stress about i guess ,good luck !!!
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      05-24-2011, 10:56 AM   #43
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numbers are right on from what i have seen. I met M33 and Img really cool guys and down to earth and had nothing but good things to say about various kits. If you guys want to compare a 535 kit vs a stage 2 + i am more than welcome to run when we go over the border. I think Dynos just show you gains and are good indicator on how your car is performing..i feel deltas from before and after dynos is worth it. As for meth its doesnt do anything but cool. Img and M33 say my on and off switch for my meth so you know its not tuned for it. I wish i got a ride in one of your cars on sunday but well save it from next time. Any guys with the ess kit run any quarter mile times? I seem to have the highest trap for a SC e90 M3 so far in the northeast or i could be wrong. 124 mph at 11.8 with a 2.3 60.
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      05-24-2011, 10:59 AM   #44
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Quote:
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so are you saying the Akra delete-r affects the O2 readings ?
It is a rear 02 simulator, so yes it does affect the rear 02's... Although I am sure you already know this...

I suspect there is an issue with the front 02's as the rear does not affect air fuel... But i'm sure you already know this as well...

The delete-r is no longer required by the car your using, so it was suggested it be removed.
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