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      05-14-2007, 04:20 PM   #45
JSTDR1V
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Originally Posted by bullitt5897 View Post
Oxygen is the key component to air and thus was my point this comes down to symantics lol.

No, actually the key component to air is Nitrogen. It accounts for up to 75% of what air is.

The body only needs about 21% oxygen saturation from air content, which works out well because that's what we breathe in.


The burden is not for us to prove that something doesn't exist, rather for you to prove that god does exist.

Many people use this "explanation of existence" as their crutch meaning "if you can't prove that god doesn't exist, that means god MUST exist". This is wrong and it follows both directions.

Not only can I not prove that god does or does not exist, I would never be able to convince you of the opposite of your belief - which is the bottom line.

You cannot prove existence, I cannot prove non-existence - but that doesn't mean that either of us are correct.

Your question of "prove to me that god does not exist" leads everyone to believe that YOU THINK YOUR BELIEF IS GRANDIOSE TO THOSE THAT DON'T BELIEVE - which is absurd and wrong.

Believe what you want to get you through your days, and I will do the same - but don't have us try to prove to you something that cannot be proven.




Well actually if you want to talk semantics - the bible, the book of god - in one phrase (I will get you the source) defines Pi - the number important in calculation of measurements in circular objects - as 3. Why 3? Because back in the day, when people's IQs equaled the amount of fingers and toes on their bodies, they could not calculate Pi out to the billions of digits we have today.

Why does the book of god, the book of an all knowing power define pi at least to the 5th digit? 3.14159 Because the bible was a book written by a bunch of old people that didn't have much to do to explain things that they couldn't explain due to a finite amount of brain power. After all, they thought someone could get pregnant without having semen implanted into someone's love canal... I've only heard one case of this - a hispanic woman that after swallowing semen from oral sex was stabbed in the stomach multiple times, inseminating her thereafter, without vaginal sexual intercourse. Again, believe what you want, believe what gets you through the day, I'm not saying to believe differently - but I'm sticking to science, and don't push, or try to push your beliefs on others.

check out the fun link:

http://www.abarim-publications.com/A...nTheBible.html
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      05-14-2007, 05:09 PM   #46
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To each his own I respect your beliefs. As I hope you do with mine. My beliefs are from my experiences and the research that I have done. you would be surprised how smart people are even though they come from a time or an area "lacking of our knowledge". Many of our greatest minds never went to school. My rational for God could never sway you. God can only be experienced not explained. if God could be explained then what would be so great about him, what would keep us interested?

Mike
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      05-14-2007, 10:10 PM   #47
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The wisdom and reality of God can be documented in the Bible or Word of God. I have studied with a Bible Scholar for many years and It would take many years to document to you all the ways the Bible proves itself through historical accuracy's and on point prophecies of the Living Word of God. My studies include History along with Bible history and studies in the manuscripts in Greek and Hebrew.

1000 years before Christ, David was told a great King would come from his seed line. He would die on a cross and the soldiers would gamble for his garments. That all came to pass and Jesus also spoke David's prayer as he hung on the cross.

Most people don't know how to trace History, but if you can study history, you will find where tribes and peoples went. Esau was told "you will live away from the fat of the land" His tribe Edom eventually settled in Russia. Russia is kinda cold , they do not grow a lot of crops. I would say they are away from the fat of the land.

His Brother Jacob was told he would be blessed and his seed would be as numerous as the stars in Heaven. His seed became the 12 tribes. The 2 tribes of Judah and 10 tribes of Israel. These are the tribes Moses led out of Egypt to the promised land. You can trace these tribes over the Caucuses mountains to the Land with mountains of iron, milk, honey, endless bread. There are no mountains of iron in the Middle East, so where did they go? You got it, Europe and eventually to the most blessed nation the world has ever seen.(over abundance of grain and iron) The USA, the land that was founded on "In God We Trust", just look at your coins and dollar bills.
A study of the Traditions of Glastonbury, the Scottish Declaration of Independence, the Great Seal of the United States would all be good religious historical studies. As a matter of fact, Jacobs Pillar, from the Bible, is that rectangle stone under the coronation chair the Kings and Queens of Europe use. The Coronation Chair was made for King Edward I to enclose the famous Stone of Scone( Jacob's Pillar), which he brought from Scotland to the Abbey in 1296.
The stone came over the Caucuses mountains, just like the tribes and Joseph of Arimathea (Jesus uncle, the tin trader, who gave the tomb for Jesus ) Jesus went as a teenager to Scotland with Joseph to get tin, iron to bring back to the middle east.
If you study the Seal of the United Sates you will find instead of the Eagle and Pyramid we have for a seal as seen on the Dollar bill, our founding fathers first wanted to show the tribes leaving Egypt and the Pillar of fire by night and the cloud by day. Our founding fathers knew where the tribes of Israel went, but we have lost a lot of historical knowledge with our busy lives watching American Idol.

I could get into end time prophecy which says: men will go to and fro,(planes, cars, its kinda hard to go to and fro on a donkey) knowledge will be greatly increased,(Computers), the Word of God will be trumpeted to all tongues and nations(satellites) there will be an increase in storms, earthquakes and these are the beginnings of woes.(global warming) How one third of the earth will be scorched, pestilence(that disease we cannot cure). And then shall many be OFFENDED, and shall betray one another and shall hate on another (can you say Political correctness and racism etc.) People are offended by everything these days.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe. That's why God gave us FREE WILL.
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      05-14-2007, 10:44 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
>

I will tell you this, though: Any being, devine or otherwise, that demands worship can f** right off, even if that exposes me to an eternity in hell.
Amen.
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      05-14-2007, 10:56 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by hav2flynow View Post
The wisdom and reality of God can be documented in the Bible or Word of God.
.
.
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I could get into end time prophecy which says: men will go to and fro,(planes, cars, its kinda hard to go to and fro on a donkey) knowledge will be greatly increased,(Computers), the Word of God will be trumpeted to all tongues and nations(satellites) there will be an increase in storms, earthquakes and these are the beginnings of woes.(global warming) How one third of the earth will be scorched, pestilence(that disease we cannot cure). And then shall many be OFFENDED, and shall betray one another and shall hate on another (can you say Political correctness and racism etc.) People are offended by everything these days.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe. That's why God gave us FREE WILL.

The bible is the word of Man. Written with human motivations.

As far as your "I could get into end time prophecy" paragraph goes, nothing more needs to be said does it? Your deity produced a really concise description of the future free from any possibility of inaccurate interpretation. Good work God, you have me convinced.

I'm offended by ignorance and self delusion - especially when it is forced on others. Believe what you will ... whatever makes life easier for you ... just keep it to yourself.
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      05-15-2007, 12:00 AM   #50
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actually E90 the bible is God motivated not human. It is God through Man we were just the tools as we are today just pawns in the game of chess called life.
And to let you know the prophecies in the bible especially revelations are pretty Damn specific!!! Especially from men who's and I quote "IQs equaled the amount of fingers and toes on their bodies". I mean come on if they are that dumb how could they see all this shit comming 2000 yrs before it could ever happen?

Max, God never said you had to worship him nor does he Demand you to. Its your choice and no one else can change you. Hense, the term Free Will.

Mike
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      05-15-2007, 09:21 AM   #51
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Exactly, God, your Father/Creator, gave you free will, you can love Him or not. He created you for His pleasure. Just like your parents, why did your parents have/create you? They expect you to love them, and to obey their wishes. Same for God. If you get a pet and he grows up and bites you, growls at you, tears up the furniture and your shoes and pee's all over the house, he does not pleasure you and you get rid of him. You expect a pet to be trained to go outside to pee and lick you and give you pleasure. And when he does give you pleasure you reward him with treats!
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      05-15-2007, 09:41 AM   #52
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In keeping up with this thread, I have noticed a pattern:

- The believers are patient, compassionate and focused.

- The non-believers use anger, hatred, vulgarity and have no tolerance for the believer's points of view.

Just an observation.
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      05-15-2007, 09:44 AM   #53
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I felt my last sentance bears repeating:

*Just an observation*.

I am NOT judging anyone, just pointing out an interesting pattern. Nothing more, nothing less.
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      05-15-2007, 09:49 AM   #54
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HAHA fire, stay away from the politics/religion board. It's bad news.
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      05-15-2007, 09:52 AM   #55
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^^^^ Oh, you're so right...Dammmittt!!!!, why haven't I learned my lesson lol!!...*hunkers down and tip-toes away*...
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      05-15-2007, 10:38 AM   #56
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Back to the original question: Some things that would probably be missing would be many of our collective greatest treasures. No sistine chapel, no temple mount, none of the beautiful cathedrals and mosques and temples, no stonehedge, no pyramids, none of the inspirational paintings of all the spiritual 'leaders' the world has known or envisioned.
Not at all saying they are great because of religion, just that it put some directional input into the creative juices thoses artists already possessed.
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      05-15-2007, 10:49 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fire-n-ice View Post
^^^^ Oh, you're so right...Dammmittt!!!!, why haven't I learned my lesson lol!!...*hunkers down and tip-toes away*...
HAHAHAHAHAHA LMFAO Hey fire whats that *points then runs and blocks the door* Muahahahaha lol

You have a good one man. I had noticed that observation as well.

Mike
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      05-15-2007, 10:52 AM   #58
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Interesting thought, UncleWede. And yes, let's keep the thread close to the original theme. So the question was why do we need mass religion as opposed to individual delusions, hallucinations, and fears. is mass religion as necessary as a government? Can people behave well if they have nothing to fear in the "afterlife?" Why mass religions are trying to supress human sexuality? There are just examples ...
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      05-15-2007, 10:54 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullitt5897 View Post
HAHAHAHAHAHA LMFAO Hey fire whats that *points then runs and blocks the door* Muahahahaha lol

You have a good one man. I had noticed that observation as well.

Mike

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      05-15-2007, 01:46 PM   #60
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> No sistine chapel

Blech. Been there, seen it. There's some value to it but it's nowhere near as great as you would think from the rave reviews. It's basically a mess hall.

Plus, Michelangelo was an Atheist. Bet you didn't know that!

But in the vatican museum, there's this amazing painting depicting the hanging of some christians. That painting alone is worth going to Rome for! The excrutiating detail, the fine technique, the wonderful lighting. Damn.

BTW: there's enough loot in the vatican museum to solve world hunger and poverty. I wonder why they don't use some of it to help their fellow man... Not.

> Russia is kinda cold , they do not grow a lot of crops.

http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/climate.htm

And they don't grow a lot of crops because they're recovering from the collapse of communism, which dropped the production to about 40% of what it was before.

> God, your Father/Creator, gave you free will

Except that you can show, using an MRI machine, that free will is an illusion created by your brain. More precisely: action is initiated before you become aware of the decision to take action. Exceedingly interesting research!!

> The non-believers use anger, hatred, vulgarity and have no tolerance for the believer's points of view.

Now that's ironic!!!

Anyways, the question that's burning in my mind for all that believe in god(s) is this: WHY do you choose your particular brand of religion above all others? Why are you right and everyone else wrong? And why is your religion immune to the reasoning you use to discount all these other religions?
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      05-15-2007, 02:04 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Anyways, the question that's burning in my mind for all that believe in god(s) is this: WHY do you choose your particular brand of religion above all others?
It's simple. Why do people choose Honda Civic over Mazda 3? Better advertisement and more powerful sales force. (this car example may not be entirely precise, but you get the idea).

Also, if my friend or my family member is a Christian (and I like my friends and family), why would I become a muslim?

Mass religion is nothing more than a car enthusiasts club in its essence. But, their group drives tend to be more dramatic and attract more attention. Occasionally, they ran people over, but for good reasons.

Now, back to the original questions!
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      05-15-2007, 02:06 PM   #62
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Why did Mexico and many countries in South America choose catholicism? Or did they choose?
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      05-15-2007, 03:29 PM   #63
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There will be a time when the word of God is laughed at and rejected and that time is coming. More and more people are rejecting the Lord and His gift to man. - The death of His Son to save us from our sin.

I sometimes look around and think about all the people who aren't saved, living their lives without the knowledge or the acceptance of Christ. Sometimes I think about those friends of mine that aren't saved and it scares me. I know that one day all those who believe in Christ as their savior will be with Him. I wonder if they will be there. I worry about them...what can I do if they have heard and will not accept? I don't know...but as it has been said, God has given us free will. We can choose to accept or deny Him.

Things in the world are beginning to indicate that end times might be at our doorstep. I would hope that more would recognize and come to accept the Lord. I know this may or may not happen...but just look at the violence in the world...the natural disasters...the religious war heating up in the middle east. Many may discount the violence as a reoccuring happenstance, the natural disasters as normal planet evolution or b/c of fossil fuels and the war in the middle east as a result of American politics. I don't believe these as reasons or any reason you could conjur, I believe this is coming about as a sign. "...When you see these things, know that the coming of your Lord is near."

I think I already made it clear where I stand in all this earlier in the thread...I just hope more come to know Christ...
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      05-15-2007, 03:31 PM   #64
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There will be a time when the word of God is laughed at and rejected and that time is coming. More and more people are rejecting the Lord and his gift to man. - The death of His Son to save us from our sin.

I sometimes look around and think about all the people who aren't saved, living their lives without the knowledge or the acceptance of Christ. Sometimes I think about those friends of mine that aren't saved and it scares me. I know that one day all those who believe in Christ as their savior will be with Him. I wonder if they will be there. I worry about them...what can I do if they have heard and will not accept? I don't know...but as it has been said, God has given us free will. We can choose to accept or deny Him.

Things in the world are beginning to indicate that end times might be at our doorstep. I would hope that more would recognize and come to accept the Lord. I know this may or may not happen...but just look at the violence in the world...the natural disasters...the religious war heating up in the middle east. Many may discount the violence as a reoccuring happenstance, the natural disasters as normal planet evolution or b/c of fossil fuels and the war in the middle east as a result of American politics. I don't believe these as reasons or any reason you could conjur, I believe this is coming about as a sign. "...When you see these things, know that the coming of your Lord is near."

I think I already made it clear where I stand in all this earlier in the thread...I just hope more come to know Christ...
Can anyone in DC call an ambulance?
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      05-15-2007, 03:47 PM   #65
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Can anyone in DC call an ambulance?
Just chiming in with my thoughts. I'm not here to bash people. I know you're being sarcastic, but no worries...nothing against ya.
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      05-15-2007, 03:49 PM   #66
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I appreciate your good temper! I'm sorry man, I'm just in a sarcastic mood today. No personal offense was intended.
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