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      05-14-2011, 01:45 PM   #45
gun6slinger9
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Originally Posted by IancoleTX View Post
LOL at all the defenders in here. I don't give a shit if it is a BMW or not, the company practice of charging $$$$$ for their products because of an OEM sticker is offensive.
Go look at the difference between a $200 exhaust and a $1000 exhaust. You pay to play. Your $200 exhaust will rust, sound like shit, rattle, and probably reduce performance.
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      05-14-2011, 08:44 PM   #46
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Let me explain how this works. It takes a ton of R&D to make a new part. A ton. When you're making a part to sell for a car like a Prelude or a Miata, that R&D gets spread out over a large amount of consumers because, not only is the the number of those cars in existence larger, but the number of people with that car looking to modify it is bigger. With a smaller production car like a BMW, ESPECIALLY on a Z4, there's a very small market for the parts, and so the R&D can't be spread out as much.

The same thing holds true with the equipment you need in order to produce the parts, and anything else that are large, one time purchases necessary to produce the parts.

Just to give you an example, there are several options to choose from when it comes to a roll bar/cage for a miata. However, look around for a Z4 roll bar/cage, and you'll see you're basically looking at one-offs (maybe a group buy if you're lucky). This drives up the price a ton.

Edit: Same holds true for stuff made by BMW.
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      05-14-2011, 11:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by tarheel91 View Post
Let me explain how this works. It takes a ton of R&D to make a new part. A ton. When you're making a part to sell for a car like a Prelude or a Miata, that R&D gets spread out over a large amount of consumers because, not only is the the number of those cars in existence larger, but the number of people with that car looking to modify it is bigger. With a smaller production car like a BMW, ESPECIALLY on a Z4, there's a very small market for the parts, and so the R&D can't be spread out as much.

The same thing holds true with the equipment you need in order to produce the parts, and anything else that are large, one time purchases necessary to produce the parts.

Just to give you an example, there are several options to choose from when it comes to a roll bar/cage for a miata. However, look around for a Z4 roll bar/cage, and you'll see you're basically looking at one-offs (maybe a group buy if you're lucky). This drives up the price a ton.

Edit: Same holds true for stuff made by BMW.
Your economies of scale example is correct. However, how much r&d do you think goes into an exhaust from a company that only makes exhausts? You think there is some special formula that they don't know about with regards to a flow through fiberglass packed muffler? R&D consists largely of fitment when it comes to an exhaust company making an exhaust for a new vehicle.

I bought a flowmaster muffler and fabed a rear section for my old E46 M3. I had a super sprint race on it at the time and as it turned out when I was done it was within a half a pound of the ss race rear section and you could hardly tell a difference in the sound. I didn't dyno it but according to G-Tech and the butt dyno, no performance difference between the 2. So it'll take quite a bit of convincing to get me to believe that $3k for an exhaust is anything but a rip off. I know what ss tubing materials cost, I know what a shop will charge to bend mandrel bend them and I know what a muffler costs. There is something to be said for quality, craftsmanship and fit and finish. But after that it's just time, materials, overhead and profit.

Manufactures have the masses tricked into believing that there is something mystical about the r&d process when it comes to making a new exhaust. Especially the BMW masses. I'm all for quality products and am a firm believer that with some products you get what you pay for... Just not with BMW exhausts. Same material cost, same labor and same tooling costs. Don't fool yourself into thinking that BMWs are so rare either. They charge so much because people will pay it, it's what the market will bare. Simple as that.

And yes, I do have an aftermarket exhaust on my car. But I bought it used for $900.
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      05-17-2011, 05:20 PM   #48
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The OP is complaining and he has 47k miles? Whats he gonna do when warranty expires. I admit that the parts are very expensive, which is why I left the car alone and bought an extended warranty. But hey if you got the money no need to complain.
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      05-17-2011, 05:34 PM   #49
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The OP is complaining and he has 47k miles? Whats he gonna do when warranty expires. I admit that the parts are very expensive, which is why I left the car alone and bought an extended warranty. But hey if you got the money no need to complain.
OP has no money. Which is why he bought a car with a warranty just about to expire. Price drops significantly.
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      05-17-2011, 07:28 PM   #50
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Just got a new BMW? Congrats man. Mind sharing with a pic with us?
He doesn't have one...
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      05-17-2011, 07:32 PM   #51
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Just got a new BMW? Congrats man. Mind sharing with a pic with us?
An by 'one' I mean he doesn't have a BMW
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      05-18-2011, 12:07 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by MP0WER View Post
Your economies of scale example is correct. However, how much r&d do you think goes into an exhaust from a company that only makes exhausts? You think there is some special formula that they don't know about with regards to a flow through fiberglass packed muffler? R&D consists largely of fitment when it comes to an exhaust company making an exhaust for a new vehicle.

I bought a flowmaster muffler and fabed a rear section for my old E46 M3. I had a super sprint race on it at the time and as it turned out when I was done it was within a half a pound of the ss race rear section and you could hardly tell a difference in the sound. I didn't dyno it but according to G-Tech and the butt dyno, no performance difference between the 2. So it'll take quite a bit of convincing to get me to believe that $3k for an exhaust is anything but a rip off. I know what ss tubing materials cost, I know what a shop will charge to bend mandrel bend them and I know what a muffler costs. There is something to be said for quality, craftsmanship and fit and finish. But after that it's just time, materials, overhead and profit.

Manufactures have the masses tricked into believing that there is something mystical about the r&d process when it comes to making a new exhaust. Especially the BMW masses. I'm all for quality products and am a firm believer that with some products you get what you pay for... Just not with BMW exhausts. Same material cost, same labor and same tooling costs. Don't fool yourself into thinking that BMWs are so rare either. They charge so much because people will pay it, it's what the market will bare. Simple as that.

And yes, I do have an aftermarket exhaust on my car. But I bought it used for $900.
You seem to be forgetting the development side of R&D, and fitment is a major part of that. Most of these exhausts are going to be designed in a CAD program hooked up to a bending machine. Neither the machines, nor the software, nor the engineers that do it all are cheap. Then comes welding...

Even just mocking up a product isn't as easy as most people would think.

On top of all of this, many higher end companies will tune for sound, and optimize the design for performance and weight. There's a good bit of engineering that goes into it. Compared to tuning an ECU, creating custom parts is a good bit more complicated (although the knowledge necessary isn't quite as high).

I'm not going to deny there's some mock up going on, but trying to pretend that's the only or even the main difference in price between a Miata exhaust and a Z4 exhaust is ridiculous.
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      05-18-2011, 12:23 AM   #53
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This thread = full retard
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      05-18-2011, 12:52 AM   #54
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OP = full retard
Fixed.
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