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      05-16-2011, 12:47 AM   #23
scottwww
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There is plenty information out there. Here is one source with questionable motives:

http://www.dhs.gov/files/laws/gc_1172765386179.shtm

REAL ID Final Rule

The Department of Homeland Security has issued a final rule to establish minimum standards for state-issued driver’s licenses and identification cards in accordance with the REAL ID Act of 2005.
These regulations set standards for states to meet the requirements of the REAL ID Act, including:
  • information and security features that must be incorporated into each card;
  • proof of identity and lawful status of an applicant;
  • verification of the source documents provided by an applicant; and
  • security standards for the offices that issue licenses and identification cards.
This final rule also provides a process for states to seek an additional extension of the compliance deadline to May 11, 2011, by demonstrating material compliance with the core requirements of the Act and this rule.

...This final rule also provides a process for States
to seek an additional extension of the compliance deadline to May 11,
2011, by demonstrating material compliance with the core requirements
of the Act and this rule. Finally, taking into consideration the
operational burdens on State Departments of Motor Vehicles, this rule
extends the enrollment time period to allow States determined by DHS to
be in compliance with the Act to replace all licenses intended for
official purpose with REAL ID-compliant cards by December 1, 2014 for
people born after December 1, 1964, and by December 1, 2017 for those
born on or before December 1, 1964.

Enrollment: As of December 1, 2014, Federal agencies cannot accept
driver's licenses or identification cards for official purposes, as
defined herein, from any individual born after December 1, 1964, unless
DHS has determined that the issuing State is in compliance with
Subparts A through D of this rule and the card presented by the
individuals meet the standards of this rule. As of December 1, 2017,
Federal agencies will not accept any State-issued driver's licenses and
identification cards for official purposes unless such cards have been
issued by States that have certified to DHS their compliance with
Subparts A through D of this rule.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Darrell Williams, REAL ID Program
Office, Department of Homeland Security, Washington, DC 20528 (202)
282-9829.The privacy groups and individuals also filed comments on a number
of other privacy issues such as redress, the confidentiality of the
address for certain at-risk individuals, and the Western Hemisphere
Travel Initiative (WHTI)-compliant card and its use of Radio Frequency
Identification (RFID) technology. The comments and responses to these
additional privacy concerns are discussed in other sections of this
final rule.

Comment: One commenter supported the decision to omit an RFID
device. It stated, however, that the NPRM does not discuss what
information from a card should be made available digitally and what
purpose it would serve.

Response: DHS is not requiring that States employ RFID in REAL ID
Act cards; rather the only technology required by the final rule is the
use of the PDF417 bar code, which most States already use on their cards.

Comment: Many commenters said that RFID technology, the proposed
technology for WHTI documents, should not be used on REAL IDs. Because
RFID can be read from up to thirty feet away there are significant
privacy and security risks. A few commenters noted that the DHS Data
Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee and the Government
Accountability Office both advised against using RFID technology. One
organization felt strongly that the use of RFID technology without the
use of Basic Access Control and other safeguards would contravene the
basic security features that the Department of State has included in
new U.S. passports.

Another group believed that States can leverage the same
infrastructure that they will need to purchase for REAL ID to
incorporate MRZ, proximity chips, and vicinity chip technology onto a
driver's license. The only difference

would be the cardstock and the quality assurance processes to ensure
that electronics within the card are functioning properly. Another
organization suggested that its product can turn the wireless function
on or off as needed.

One State suggested that DHS not identify a specific technology to
be used, but leave it up to the States to decide.

Response: The use of RFID is essential to the WHTI program in order
to ensure facilitation at crowded U.S. land and sea crossing points.
Similar concerns are not implicated by REAL ID, which is one of the
factors that led DHS to select the 2D bar code as the common machine
readable technology on driver's licenses and identification cards. DHS
encourages States to explore alternative technologies on their driver's
licenses and identification cards in order to promote security and
technology advances as well as e-government initiatives a State may wish to explore

And another questionable source giving their interpretation:

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Last edited by scottwww; 05-16-2011 at 12:54 AM.
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      05-16-2011, 07:35 AM   #24
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That last post was simply an excerpt. As DHS implementation of the Real ID is not yet requiring RFID, but is encouraging states to include other security and technology advances, you need to convince your state to not use it. In what way are they encouraging states?

DHS admitted RFID to be readable from 30 feet away. How far do you think it can really be read today?

From what distance would RFID be able to be read in your future?
How can we prevent the RFID from being read?
Where would RFID readers be placed?
Would the RFID in your wallet be readable from a sensor placed at a roadside?
Is it a violation of the law if you destroy the RFID chip with microwaves?
If you walk into a building that doesn't explicitly have a Real ID requirement, but your RFID cannot be read, will they watch your every step from their security cameras?

Are we all suspects?
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      05-16-2011, 06:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
In Russia everyone carries a Passport as their ID. You can be walking down the street in the middle of the day, or siting on a bench eating your lunch, and if a cop ask your for your ID, you have to show him your Passport. That goes for anyone who is not even a Russian citizen.


Its been this way for ever.


Do Canadian citizens already have ID cards? If they do, it didnt make their life any more difficult.
If you carry a US passport today, if it was issued since the RFID chip was required to be embedded in it, then you are already being tracked. Department of Homeland Security says it can be read from 30 feet away. I would guess that it is readable from further than that.

I would leave the passport at home.
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      05-16-2011, 06:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
If you carry a US passport today, if it was issued since the RFID chip was required to be embedded in it, then you are already being tracked. Department of Homeland Security says it can be read from 30 feet away. I would guess that it is readable from further than that.

I would leave the passport at home.

From an identity protection point of view, many frequent travellers already use some type of insulator/cover for their passports due to the RFID vulnerability. Both of my US passports have the chip. I don't mind. But, I do get super pissy when I'm "interrogated" upon coming home.

I would never suggest something illegal like destroying federal property (which I think US passports are considered). However... the RFID circuit can be opened by rolling the booklet's cover tightly - like around a pen or something. A friend who is dead told me this.
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      05-16-2011, 06:16 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gun6slinger9 View Post
That is very different from just having an extra piece of ID that allows you into federal buildings and travel. This card becomes your drivers license so really whats the difference?
It looks like if you get a driver's license renewal after 5/11/11, then it must be Real ID compliant. This ID has some kind of barcode to identify you (apparently the data is uploaded to the DHS database when it is scanned?).

Presently, it looks like it is up to your state whether your driver's license includes the RFID chip which provides for reading the chip "up to" 30 feet away. I guess you will not have to show your ID. For that matter, you will not even need to know that your ID was checked.

Do you also wonder what they are not telling about it, and the details of how they plan to use the data?
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      05-16-2011, 06:28 PM   #28
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Was Enemy of the State the movie with the regular guy who had tracking devices in his clothes?

Since these RFID chips are so cheap, a lot of product packaging is expected to start using them for "inventory" purposes or something like that. I wouldn't doubt it if the government were to mandate RFID chips be installed in the manufacturing of shoes (for inventory purposes of course). It would just happen that these could be read from 30 feet away.

It wouldn't be rocket science for the RFID in your shoes to be matched to the RFID in your driver's license. Then, even if you don't have your driver's license with you, you could be identified 30 feet away by your shoes. Or if not from 30 feet away, maybe by walking through the door of a building. Or stepping on a sidewalk that has RFID sensors.

The potential uses for RFID are limitless. Isn't it the USA Patriot Act that gives the power to DHS to do just about anything it pleases?
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      05-17-2011, 05:16 AM   #29
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I already have a national ID card. Some folks call it a passport.
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      05-17-2011, 12:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xbook View Post
I already have a national ID card. Some folks call it a passport.
Good. Do you like when you're being watched by the government's computer system 24/7?
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      05-17-2011, 02:21 PM   #31
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Good. Do you like when you're being watched by APPLE'S computer system 24/7?

Fixed. Nobody in the US gov't is following you everywhere you go, but your smart phone is.
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      05-17-2011, 04:10 PM   #32
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Fixed. Nobody in the US gov't is following you everywhere you go, but your smart phone is.
You're right. Apple & Google (Android) smartphones are following you everywhere.

The national ID card, I believe, will evolve into a RFID chip and inserted under your skin. The RFID chip will also include financial data (like credit card/debit card). That means you can go anywhere without having to carry any idenfitication cards, credit/debit cards, driver's license, etc with you. Let's say you buy a six pack of beer at the beach grocery store (you're wearing only a swim trunks and sandals), you simply "swipe" your hand over the reader at the cashier.

That is what our government is trying to do this. Greece is turning into a cashless society - only 1500 Euros or more. If you purchased anything that is more than 1500 Euro with cash, you will be arrested. Nigeria is a cashless society, too. Scary.
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      05-17-2011, 05:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzz View Post
You're right. Apple & Google (Android) smartphones are following you everywhere.
I just bought for my wife a new Asus Transformer which is an Android 3.0 Honeycomb tablet. It is a nice piece of equipment. With it, you can switch off the tracking (at least that is how it looked to me when I set it up). You can choose whether location information is taken from GPS, wifi, or I don't remember what else. Does Apple give you the option to turn off the tracking now?
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      05-17-2011, 06:07 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazzz View Post
You're right. Apple & Google (Android) smartphones are following you everywhere.

The national ID card, I believe, will evolve into a RFID chip and inserted under your skin. The RFID chip will also include financial data (like credit card/debit card). That means you can go anywhere without having to carry any idenfitication cards, credit/debit cards, driver's license, etc with you. Let's say you buy a six pack of beer at the beach grocery store (you're wearing only a swim trunks and sandals), you simply "swipe" your hand over the reader at the cashier.

That is what our government is trying to do this. Greece is turning into a cashless society - only 1500 Euros or more. If you purchased anything that is more than 1500 Euro with cash, you will be arrested. Nigeria is a cashless society, too. Scary.
That would be awesome. Then we could walk around naked, since the only need I have for pants is to carry all of my money.
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      05-17-2011, 06:26 PM   #35
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That would be awesome. Then we could walk around naked, since the only need I have for pants is to carry all of my money.

Is that because you've got nothing to hide, or nothing in your pants to cover?

I kid, I kid...

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      05-17-2011, 06:28 PM   #36
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Is that because you've got nothing to hide, or nothing in your pants to cover?

I kid, I kid...





haha... good one - i begged for that. lol
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      05-17-2011, 06:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
I just bought for my wife a new Asus Transformer which is an Android 3.0 Honeycomb tablet. It is a nice piece of equipment. With it, you can switch off the tracking (at least that is how it looked to me when I set it up). You can choose whether location information is taken from GPS, wifi, or I don't remember what else. Does Apple give you the option to turn off the tracking now?

One test showed that even after selecting the option switch off tracking, the plain text file where the data was stored continued to get updated with tracking information.


http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...rned-off-paper
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      05-17-2011, 07:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
One test showed that even after selecting the option switch off tracking, the plain text file where the data was stored continued to get updated with tracking information.


http://www.thestar.com/business/arti...rned-off-paper
From this, it looks like Android gives you better options than Apple to stop the tracking, or to limit it's intrusion, and keeps a shorter history. So, Apple will still track your location to the nearest cellular tower even with the opt out.

Why the heck would they need to keep location history for any longer than the last cellular tower? Maybe it is just because I don't understand their intended purpose for the data, but they should certainly safeguard the data and give the user better opportunity to defeat, delete it, suspend data collection, whatever.

Hopefully Apple (and others) will listen closely to the objections of the few who don't want to be tracked, and make it possible to turn it off at will.
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