Where is Osama's death certificate?

[11Series]

Originally Posted by InCityPhoto

You are so lost it humors me,

Real adult stuff.. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

The adult stuff in this thread is making decisions that can get US soldiers killed. Thanks for showing us you don't have anything adult to add about making decisions that put US soldiers in harm's way.

The rest of the thread is a joke, just like your posts. See the "Tags" at the bottom of the thread that says "it's a joke".

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by 11Series

Fuck no I wouldn't! I'm not going to give no god-damn terrorists a single bit of video recruitment tools for them to use to recruit more terrorists...

I didn't say it needed to be video...I just said someone else should have seen that body. I'm sure there are a number of folks -- from a variety of factions, both for and against the US -- who could have been called upon to observe that the man is dead.

There's no need for video...the word of non-aligned individuals would have been sufficient.

[11Series]

Originally Posted by tony20009

I didn't say it needed to be video...I just said someone else should have seen that body. I'm sure there are a number of folks -- from a variety of factions, both for and against the US -- who could have been called upon to observe that the man is dead.

There's no need for video...the word of non-aligned individuals would have been sufficient.

Why? If Tony Blair or similar were invited, they would be dismissed as our poodles by anyone with a conspiracy mindset.

If we invited Ahmadinijad or similar, we give our enemies a free and open platform to bad talk us at our own invite. Do you trust Ahmajinidad or similar?

You seem to have this odd belief that conspiracy crazies are swayed by facts, yet you seem completely unswayed by facts yourself. It is an interesting contradiction.

[11Series]

Originally Posted by M3Bahn

He forgot to take a screen shot

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by radix

I can't believe someone took my post seriously. On second thought, perhaps I can.

That's what happens when you post in here.

Serious business, chest-pounding, and poo-flinging only in here. No room for humor.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by 11Series

Why? If Tony Blair or similar were invited, they would be dismissed as our poodles by anyone with a conspiracy mindset.

As I said, individuals from favorable as well as unaligned factions would be fine...hell, have the Swiss or the Pope verify the event. I'm not terribly concerned about who verifies it, though your point about objectivity is germane and should be considered in selecting the witnesses. I'm concerned that right now, nobody is in a position to verify it.

Originally Posted by 11Series

If we invited Ahmadinijad or similar, we give our enemies a free and open platform to bad talk us at our own invite. Do you trust Ahmajinidad or similar?

They don't need this as a platform. They say what they want and make accusations that suit them anyway. But I probably wouldn't choose him either.

Originally Posted by 11Series

You seem to have this odd belief that conspiracy crazies are swayed by facts, yet you seem completely unswayed by facts yourself. It is an interesting contradiction.

What facts have been presented? Right now, we have but unsubstantiated statements that the death occurred. As with all things our leaders do, their statements don't give reality to an alleged sequence of events. We've seen that truism played out repeatedly.

• I did not have sex with that woman.
• There are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
• We did not trade weapons for hostages.
• Read my lips: no new taxes.

It is clearly not beyond the capacity of a US President, to say nothing of his subordinates, to misrepresent the truth. The scope and nature of the things about which Presidents will lie is unlimited. Osama's death, given the significance of such an occurrence, is certainly something the government would lie about if they instead captured, but did not kill him. Or, alternately, just to posit another scenario, found his long dead remains somewhere.

Today, I read on ABC or CNN (don't recall which) that in addition to Osama's remains and assorted documentation, our forces left the compound with an individual who was in the compound when our guys arrived. Who was that individual? A spy we had placed inside Osama's cabal? Another Al Qaeda leader/official?

Finally, I read too that the decisions surrounding the potential release of a photo are being left to the CIA. Now where is the sense in that? It's a damn photo of a dead man. What special talents have the CIA to play a role in determining how, when, whether to release a photo of him? They couldn't have any skill in this area any more than, say a professor Islamic culture or one or more of our diplomats in the Arab world. They do have skill, however, at clouding issues, fabricating supposed realities, keeping secrets, and obfuscating the truth; it's what they do.

[11Series]

Originally Posted by tony20009

I'm not terribly concerned about who verifies it, though your point about objectivity is germane and should be considered in selecting the witnesses.

OK, if you aren't terribly concerned about who verifies it, how about the whole frickin' crew on a US warship, along with 45 US special ops forces? They are good American folks that are both Republicans and Democrats, and honorable.

I choose them.

Done, and done.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by 11Series

OK, if you aren't terribly concerned about who verifies it, how about the whole frickin' crew on a US warship, along with 45 US special ops forces? They are good American folks that are both Republicans and Democrats, and honorable.

I choose them.

Done, and done.

Well, now, there's a clearly objective bunch of people....

Puh-lease.

[11Series]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Well, now, there's a clearly objective bunch of people....

Puh-lease.

What problem do you have with an entire crew of a US battleship, and 45 Special Forces that you think they would collaborate with Obama in an elaborate hoax?

Do you seriously think there is a special Obama loyalist faction of the US military that is made up of just hardcore Democrats that has their own ships and their own special ops force?

You are getting deeper and deeper into Crazyland.

[KGB7]

Originally Posted by 11Series

OK, if you aren't terribly concerned about who verifies it, how about the whole frickin' crew on a US warship, along with 45 US special ops forces? They are good American folks that are both Republicans and Democrats, and honorable.

I choose them.

Done, and done.

Were you there? Do you know what they have seen or havent seen? No?


Okay then...

[OldArmy]

Originally Posted by tony20009

If he's being held captive, he couldn't. I don't doubt that they found and captured him. I just don't know for sure he's dead.

It would appear that your standard for determining facts depends on you personally witnessing an event. That is a mighty high standard and not one used by normal humans. Your philosophy must be very limiting for you.

[KGB7]

Originally Posted by OldArmy

It would appear that your standard for determining facts depends on you personally witnessing an event. That is a mighty high standard and not one used by normal humans. Your philosophy must be very limiting for you.

And your standard for determining facts depends on being spoon fed by mass media, same media that is spoon fed by the White House??

What standards for determining facts do you depend on?

[11Series]

Originally Posted by KGB7

Were you there? Do you know what they have seen or havent seen? No?


Okay the...

You must be right, because Osama Bin Laden is alive and right outside your house right now! Quick, grab all your junk and flee right now to Canada like you promised!

What ever you do, Do NOT believe that Obama got Osama, because then you won't check behind every bush, rock, and tree between MD and Canada. Then BAM, Osama will take you out just when you least expect it.

Don't go back to Rockville, Osama will be there waiting for you.

Crazyland.

[KGB7]

Originally Posted by 11Series

You must be right, because Osama Bin Laden is alive and right outside your house right now! Quick, grab all your junk and flee right now to Canada like you promised!

What ever you do, Do NOT believe that Obama got Osama, because then you won't check behind every bush, rock, and tree between MD and Canada. Then BAM, Osama will take you out just when you least expect it.

Don't go back to Rockville, Osama will be there waiting for you.

Crazyland.

I don't trust people that pull random shit out of thin air, only later defend them self's with same weak joke they repeat over and over because they have no brain to come up with new material.


But nice try though. Next time try to answer a question with ... at least semi interesting and relevant information.

[M3Bahn]

Originally Posted by KGB7

And your standard for determining facts depends on being spoon fed by mass media, same media that is spoon fed by the White House??

What standards for determining facts do you depend on?

These guys seems to forget things like what happened to Pat Tillmen and how the original story was nowhere near the truth and a total fabrication.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4061656.shtml

[11Series]

Originally Posted by KGB7

I don't trust people that pull random shit out of thin air, only later defend them self's with same weak joke they repeat over and over because they have no brain to come up with new material.


But nice try though. Next time try to answer a question with ... at least semi interesting and relevant information.

oldarmy already provided your answer. No need for me to repeat him. Learn to read.

[OldArmy]

Originally Posted by KGB7

And your standard for determining facts depends on being spoon fed by mass media, same media that is spoon fed by the White House??

What standards for determining facts do you depend on?

Naaah, I get secret transmissions from Command Central, they tell me what I need to know. But thanks, I can see from your personal example that a tin foil hat is the best way to go.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by OldArmy

It would appear that your standard for determining facts depends on you personally witnessing an event. That is a mighty high standard and not one used by normal humans. Your philosophy must be very limiting for you.

It is not. But to believe the argument because of a perception regarding the source of the argument is not logical. Thankfully, you aren't likely to sit on any jury I may, God forbid, come before. It's pretty clear that because the authorities say something happened, you believe it did happen just as they say. My standard of proof, in contrast, is the same as that in any court in the US: beyond a reasonable doubt.

The government -- the CIA, the military and the White House -- is staffed, at the highest levels, by incredibly intelligent folks. Of that there can be little question. Minimally, there's a ton of legally trained people in such positions. That they didn't anticipate there would be questions raised about the veracity of their claim of Osama's death would be very disappointing to me. Accordingly, there must have been a reason for their not taking any action to mitigate the doubt regarding their claim.

In this particular situation, if the claim is true, there was nothing especially challenging about presenting a body to demonstrate its accuracy.

Finally, though you want to make me out to be a "crazy" person, the fact is you've not presented one line of argument to show that the man is dead. At best, all you've offered are a set of ad hominen inferences, which even they you failed to support with a cogent set of facts, to say nothing of the fact that those inferences don't actually address the point at hand. You, however, are not alone. Others posting in this thread have sought to deny that Osama may not be dead via arguments based upon red herrings, question begging, and personal attacks.

It's your right to believe what you're told by your government, and I respect your freedom to acquiesce accordingly. It's my right to question what they say when there's little evidence to support what they say.

[KGB7]

Originally Posted by 11Series

oldarmy already provided your answer. No need for me to repeat him. Learn to read.

I must be getting old and senile, because i dont see his answer. Be a good lad and show where oldarmy provided me with an answer.

[11Series]

Originally Posted by KGB7

I must be getting old and senile

Finally something we can both agree upon!

[ellipsis212]

Originally Posted by radix

I can't believe someone took my post seriously. On second thought, perhaps I can.

Great thread.

[hks786]

Originally Posted by KGB7

And your standard for determining facts depends on being spoon fed by mass media, same media that is spoon fed by the White House??

What standards for determining facts do you depend on?

+1000

Well that's what I think. I think there is a possibility that Obama's account about what happened may be true. However, there is a possibility that Bin Laden was already dead or that he is still alive and they are holding him right now.

The fact is that every newspaper and news channel have shown pictures of Obama making official announcements and showed pictures of the compound. That makes the whole thing seem real, but it doesn't actually mean it's true. People are starting with an assumption that the official story is true and then working all the other details out later e.g. was Bin Laden armed or not? We don't even know if he was there!

There are already conflicting stories coming out that Pakistan gave intel in 2009 about that compound yet America are saying they couldn't trust Pakistan. I guarantee people will take the U.S story over Pakistan because to most people it is a backward country full of terrorists and America is the world policeman always truthful.