BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-29-2011, 03:37 PM   #1
RickyBobby
Lieutenant
 
RickyBobby's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NorCal

Posts: 452
iTrader: (1)

Long term track use: How are people's cars holding up??

Now that our cars have been out for a while, let's talk about how things are holding up under heavy track use. Has anyone run into any problems with bushings, subframes, engines, power steering, warranty issues etc?

Power steering: My fluid does leak a bit and I have experienced heavy steering after a long session, but everything comes back to normal when the car cools back down.

Brakes: I've gotten them nice and toasty but they are still working for me with proper pads, ss lines and titanium backing plates.

Engine: 30k miles and still going strong. I am able to get the temps up to 3/4 on the dummy gauge after multiple laps but I'm usually slowing down to preserve tires & brakes at that point. No excessive oil consumption or abnormatilies to report.

Bushings & Subframe: No issues to report yet but this worries me the most since I'm one of the 1st people who started using stiff springs. Has anyone had any issues here?

Discuss..

2012 Update:
Wheel bearings: Fronts had to be replaced due to brake pad knockback. Looks as if this will be routine maintence every other year for me.
Brakes: I held in there as long as I could with the stock calipers, but eventually the inner seals seized and with no real warning. Upgraded to BBK for safety reasons and am happy to know that the brakes are no longer the weak link.

Last edited by RickyBobby; 06-19-2012 at 11:26 PM.
RickyBobby is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 04:00 PM   #2
wwjd15
Banned
 
Drives: 11 E92 M3 MR
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orange County

Posts: 1,322
iTrader: (6)

^^ good thread. I was just thinking to start one this morning. Do you do some check up for your car after some track days? Such as compression test, valve check, etc.


I got my car only 2 months and had 3 track days so far. Here's my issues:

Power Steering fluid:
It failed from first session of the first track day. Also, it leaks everytime I track it. Sucks!

DCT:
Slow shifting happened during some sessions at 3rd track day.

Brakes: (AP BBK)
2nd track day, overheated Motul 600 barker fluid. Braking power was not constant stable for some reason.
3rd track day, not sure if I overheated the Motul 660, but braking was not constant again.
wwjd15 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 04:40 PM   #3
mastek
e36s54, F10M5, e70X5d
 
mastek's Avatar
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 1,495
iTrader: (15)

Power steering: Fluid leaks all the time at the track = solved it with a zip-tie and shop towel.

Brakes: I've melted my OE brakes with PFC01 pads to almost "JuniorM3" status. My next mod was going to be titanium backing plates before I got my BBK. Sounds like it worked for you Ricky.

Engine: 30k also and cant believe what an amazing engine this is. Lightweight, fast revving ... and you can go track day to street without missing a beat = S65 FTMFW

Bushings & Subframe: No issues to report here either. And i have my car on the rack after every track day.
mastek is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 04:43 PM   #4
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,630
iTrader: (5)

Power steering-Leaked for the first time last weekend, no issues to report.

Brakes-I got the BBK before my first track event, so no complaints there. AP BBK has been spot on.

Engine-Strong, but I do feel it get heat soaked a bit.

Bushings and Subframe-Nothing to report yet.

Diff-Mine makes more noise then it use too.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 04:44 PM   #5
mastek
e36s54, F10M5, e70X5d
 
mastek's Avatar
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 1,495
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd15 View Post
^^ good thread. I was just thinking to start one this morning. Do you do some check up for your car after some track days? Such as compression test, valve check, etc.


I got my car only 2 months and had 3 track days so far. Here's my issues:

Power Steering fluid:
It failed from first session of the first track day. Also, it leaks everytime I track it. Sucks!

DCT:
Slow shifting happened during some sessions at 3rd track day.

Brakes: (AP BBK)
2nd track day, overheated Motul 600 barker fluid. Braking power was not constant stable for some reason.
3rd track day, not sure if I overheated the Motul 660, but braking was not constant again.
Your brake issues sound like pads and/or proper bleeding issues. The AP Kit has been VERY consistent in my experience. And you'd be SHOCKED at the difference a proper bleed can yield (and proper pads of course).

I ran F3R front and F4R rear on the AP Kit HARD at Laguna until I boiled my Motul 600 ... but the consistency was solid all the way up until.
I also disintegrated a set of Mintex Extreme's at Buttonwillow after 2 sessions and was surprised at how little warning or drop-off in braking consistency and performance I had ... up until the brakes failed when the pads went to powder and the backing plate.
mastek is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 04:46 PM   #6
Mavrick151
My M treats me right
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: CA

Posts: 297
iTrader: (1)

Power steering: Leaks a little. A zip-tie and shop towel did the trick

Brakes: Track dependent but will be going with an AP Racing set up eventually.

Engine: 22k and no real issues ... besides a broken motor mount. This was defective from the factory and replaced. Happened very early at about 4000 miles.

Bushings & Subframe: No issues here.
Mavrick151 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 04:58 PM   #7
RickyBobby
Lieutenant
 
RickyBobby's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NorCal

Posts: 452
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
Brakes: I've melted my OE brakes with PFC01 pads to almost "JuniorM3" status. My next mod was going to be titanium backing plates before I got my BBK. Sounds like it worked for you Ricky.
I wish the ti-backing plates were my cure. Unfortunately, it's just restraint and my desire not to do any more mods . I've been able to cook stoptechs on previous cars so it's just a matter of how hard you're willing to push things. The stock brakes work just fine for what I'm doing with the car.
RickyBobby is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 06:55 PM   #8
wwjd15
Banned
 
Drives: 11 E92 M3 MR
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orange County

Posts: 1,322
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
Your brake issues sound like pads and/or proper bleeding issues. The AP Kit has been VERY consistent in my experience. And you'd be SHOCKED at the difference a proper bleed can yield (and proper pads of course).

I ran F3R front and F4R rear on the AP Kit HARD at Laguna until I boiled my Motul 600 ... but the consistency was solid all the way up until.
I also disintegrated a set of Mintex Extreme's at Buttonwillow after 2 sessions and was surprised at how little warning or drop-off in braking consistency and performance I had ... up until the brakes failed when the pads went to powder and the backing plate.
Thanks.

It's not bleeding issue. I had that before, but fixed it before heading to track. And yes, I was shocked and still shocking at how much braking power the F3R providing. It's almost too much for DD. yes,,, too much. It's the right word.

I'm sure it's not an overheated brake pads related either. Because most of the time the braking was fine, even after 7 sessions of continuely tracking in a day.

I mean the braking power is not stable enough to give me confidence. For example, if braking at a long straight away, Brembo GT BBK and Stoptech BBK (even some cracpy stock ones) on my other cars are able to brake and stop at the same spot lap after lap. However, AP is not the same. Sometimes it stops earlier than usual, sometimes it stops later than usual, which is really annoying and force me to brake earlier than where it should be. It can be happened just about anytime during the day, doesn't matter cold or hot.
wwjd15 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 07:09 PM   #9
mastek
e36s54, F10M5, e70X5d
 
mastek's Avatar
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 1,495
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd15 View Post
Thanks.

It's not bleeding issue. I had that before, but fixed it before heading to track. And yes, I was shocked and still shocking at how much braking power the F3R providing. It's almost too much for DD. yes,,, too much. It's the right word.

I'm sure it's not an overheated brake pads related either. Because most of the time the braking was fine, even after 7 sessions of continuely tracking in a day.

I mean the braking power is not stable enough to give me confidence. For example, if braking at a long straight away, Brembo GT BBK and Stoptech BBK (even some cracpy stock ones) on my other cars are able to brake and stop at the same spot lap after lap. However, AP is not the same. Sometimes it stops earlier than usual, sometimes it stops later than usual, which is really annoying and force me to brake earlier than where it should be. It can be happened just about anytime during the day, doesn't matter cold or hot.
This is not right -- you either have defective parts on your BBK -- or your pads are defective -- or your fluid has air in it -- or your ABS pump is wrong -- or your brake booster is wrong.
I would start another thread and bring this up to AP Racing -- I have had Brembo's (e36m3), StopTechs (e46m3) and now AP Racing ...and the AP Kit is most consistent and has the best pedal feel of all 3 IMHO. You should be raving about the consistency and predictability of this kit, otherwise something is wrong.
mastek is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 07:25 PM   #10
Martin_D
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Martin_D's Avatar
 
Drives: Ford Super Duty
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posts: 1,792
iTrader: (34)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
This is not right -- you either have defective parts on your BBK -- or your pads are defective -- or your fluid has air in it -- or your ABS pump is wrong -- or your brake booster is wrong.
I would start another thread and bring this up to AP Racing -- I have had Brembo's (e36m3), StopTechs (e46m3) and now AP Racing ...and the AP Kit is most consistent and has the best pedal feel of all 3 IMHO. You should be raving about the consistency and predictability of this kit, otherwise something is wrong.
It is the brake boost assist. This happens to fast drivers in the E9X M3. The system pulls vacuum from anywhere it can and you get an inconsistent pedal.

AE performance is working on a fix for this. It happened plenty of times in my car, happens with their car as well. Anyone driving fast knows about this.
Martin_D is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 07:35 PM   #11
mastek
e36s54, F10M5, e70X5d
 
mastek's Avatar
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 1,495
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_D View Post
It is the brake boost assist. This happens to fast drivers in the E9X M3. The system pulls vacuum from anywhere it can and you get an inconsistent pedal.

AE performance is working on a fix for this. It happened plenty of times in my car, happens with their car as well. Anyone driving fast knows about this.
Then I guess Im going slow -- cause Ive not had this issue -- but good to know that there IS an issue with the brake boost
mastek is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 07:40 PM   #12
Martin_D
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Martin_D's Avatar
 
Drives: Ford Super Duty
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posts: 1,792
iTrader: (34)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
Then I guess Im going slow -- cause Ive not had this issue -- but good to know that there IS an issue with the brake boost
What would you like to know about it? Talk to the drivers of the AE car. The drivers going fast have experienced this. Inconsistent pedal due to the vacuum being pulled. You can be on the brakes hard, 10/10...lose them...and then they come right back. It has everything to do with the brake boost assist system and there will be a fix out there soon.
Martin_D is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 08:45 PM   #13
klammer
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: chicago

Posts: 3,218
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_D View Post
What would you like to know about it? Talk to the drivers of the AE car. The drivers going fast have experienced this. Inconsistent pedal due to the vacuum being pulled. You can be on the brakes hard, 10/10...lose them...and then they come right back. It has everything to do with the brake boost assist system and there will be a fix out there soon.
Thx for the info, good to know. I've got about 20k on the engine, runs awesome, almost too awesome with 10 track days thus far with about 15 left this season. No issues to report at all other than the usual frying of stock brakes (road america, brutal on brakes). Have noticed a bit of steering fluid leak but apparently thats normal for this car. No other noises or faults to speak of yet... Love this car
__________________
mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40
klammer is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-29-2011, 10:14 PM   #14
R A W L S
R A W L S
 
R A W L S's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 BMW M3
Join Date: May 2010
Location: _____________________

Posts: 163
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Would the brake boost issue mentioned here be described as during hard breaking the pedal feels firm, then goes soft for a split second, then goes firm again?

Probably for a different thread but had to ask. Thanks
R A W L S is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-30-2011, 08:46 AM   #15
jml
Captain
 
jml's Avatar
 
Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 981
iTrader: (2)

Car has 29K miles, probably close to 5500 advanced/instructor track miles

PS: Mine leaks like everyone else's. I use the shop towel and zip tie and keep it topped up. It does not fail (cavitation) like it did on the E46. so I'm happy.

Brakes: With SRF and DTC70s, they hold up just fine in terms of fade. But I'm not doing anything more than 25-30min sessions. The behavior is inconsistent - sometimes the car is a bit unstable transitioning onto the brakes - like the back wants to step out (going into T1 at TWS CCW, or T15 CW), and other times the pedal stiffens up at odd times, especially when you are trying to modulate aggressively or need to reapply after a large bump (Going into T10 CCW or T3 CW). I don't think a BBK will address the issue, I think it's the electronic brake force distribution or the assist system itself.

Engine: Rock solid. Uses a 1/2 to 3/4 quart of oil every ~15K. I am having temps issues in 70+ ambient temps, but I do beat on the car pretty hard with DCT (drive near redline at all times). Turning the heater on helps. If you leave the A/C on it will ALWAYS go into limp mode in my experience....ask me how I know.

Diff: I can feel the diff shuddering/slipping under power pulling out of left corners, like T2 CCW at TWS. I would not be surprised if it fails.

Suspension: Clearly wearing out. Stock springs, it's getting bouncy - like not enough fast rebound in soft mode.

Bushings: Car feels looser than I remember it - but the alignment is holding. It could probably use new bushings where the highest lateral loads are transmitted into the chassis.
jml is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      04-30-2011, 05:40 PM   #16
Martin_D
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Martin_D's Avatar
 
Drives: Ford Super Duty
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posts: 1,792
iTrader: (34)

Quote:
Originally Posted by R A W L S View Post
Would the brake boost issue mentioned here be described as during hard breaking the pedal feels firm, then goes soft for a split second, then goes firm again?

Probably for a different thread but had to ask. Thanks
100% yes. When you are coming into a turn from 150+mph and need to come down to 40mph and this happens, well...it can be fun

Fun = opposite lock opposite lock
Martin_D is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-30-2011, 05:47 PM   #17
xchosun1x
FNG
 
xchosun1x's Avatar
 
Drives: JZB 2008 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 2,142
iTrader: (9)

Power steering: No lack of power steering during the track events but visible leaking.

Brakes: still running stock brake set up but other than the fact of feeling my brakes need more bite ( on the street and track ) they are running well, no real overheating or melting issues.

Engine: 28k miles with no issues what so ever. Still running uber strong and the DCT tranny has had no issues either.

Bushings & Subframe: No issues to report yet

** only note is somehow all my windshield wiper fluid boiled out or spilled out.
xchosun1x is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-30-2011, 09:49 PM   #18
MRSSIIM3
General
 
MRSSIIM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Boston

Posts: 1,189
iTrader: (5)

hey sorry for the dumb question but im new to all this

how do you zip tie the power steering?
__________________
Current: 2013 E92 M3, SSII, Black extended, ZCP, fully loaded
Mods: Black Hood Vents, Black Grilles, Black Side Grilles, Lux H8 v. 4.0, CF Mirrors, CF Spoiler, Black ///M Emblem, Evolve Tune, Dinan CF Intake, Dinan Pulley, Akrapovic GT4
Retired: 2011.5 E92 M3, SSII
MRSSIIM3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-30-2011, 11:12 PM   #19
xchosun1x
FNG
 
xchosun1x's Avatar
 
Drives: JZB 2008 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 2,142
iTrader: (9)

Cut a shop towel to cover enough of the filler cap. Over the towel on top of the cap and zip tie the towel around the base of the cap. The towel will absorb the overflowing fluids
xchosun1x is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      04-30-2011, 11:16 PM   #20
Krozi
Deutsche Jung aus Kölle
 
Krozi's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFla - Bonita Springs

Posts: 2,702
iTrader: (21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xchosun1x View Post
** only note is somehow all my windshield wiper fluid boiled out or spilled out.
Ummmm...sure that was the windshield washer tank? lol
__________________

2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White//Fox Red//6MT//
Florida Bimmer - Join us on FaceBook!
Krozi is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      04-30-2011, 11:57 PM   #21
xchosun1x
FNG
 
xchosun1x's Avatar
 
Drives: JZB 2008 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 2,142
iTrader: (9)

Hahah I know right? Before track day I had a wiper fluid. After
Track day it was bone dry. Lol
xchosun1x is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-01-2011, 11:30 AM   #22
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,674
iTrader: (0)

My previous E92 had 53000 kms and 3 full seasons of track issues with no real issues due to track use.

Power steering:Minor fluid leak out the cap.The only time I had a real issue I was on Hoosier slicks and the steering lost assist and was very noisy but was fine when it cooled down.The slicks were another issue and only lasted 45 minutes of lapping but were very fast!
Brakes: I've gotten them nice and toasty but they are still working for me with proper pads.Orginal rotors lasted the full 3 years still being above the wear limits.Went with a Stoptech 380mm on the new car.
Engine: 53000 kms and no issues.Usually did not need any oil added between 12000 km oil changes.
Bushings & Subframe: No issues.
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:53 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST