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      04-21-2011, 11:33 AM   #1
smmmurf
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91 octane is crap- filled with 91/100 blend

We have all seen Pencilgeek's dynos which show a 30+ ft-lb improvement around 2-3k and ~35hp around 8200, but the peak figures do not tell you what the actual improvement in driving feel is.

The car runs noticeably smoother and less jerky, especially when cold. It has a lot more low end torque below 3000 RPM in day to day driving.

91 octane CA gas at sea level is crap, the engine has to detune itself a lot to run on it. I remember in Europe during my ED running 98 (equiv 94) the car ran smoother. (That was 4,000 miles ago.) Sure it will run on 91 and not hurt itself but the car truly benefits from 94-95+ MON gas at 12:1 compression.

I recommend Sunoco street fuels GT100 (100 octane). The Torco stuff available around some stations in CA is rumored to not be a fuel safe for long term use in street engines. Subaru WRX/STI tuners have noted that it leaves red (?) buildup on the inside of your motor. I'm no expert but the Sunoco stuff is proven to run clean. I think I'm going to mix some 100 into every tankful, even at $8/gal. Premium is $4.50 where I am, so it's an extra $25-30 per tank. Not that bad IMO but then again my commute is only 3.5 miles.
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      04-21-2011, 02:49 PM   #2
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I noticed you live in Pleasanton. I'm in the area as well. Where do you get Sunoco at?
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      04-21-2011, 03:20 PM   #3
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I'm also curious about local Bay Area places with 100 unleaded.... I can post this question in the CA forum, too.
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      04-21-2011, 04:11 PM   #4
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I'm also curious. How do you guys blend it? I normally fill up at Shell so does this mean I have to fill up with a few gallon of 100 octane and then drive to another station to fill up the rest with 91?
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      04-21-2011, 04:18 PM   #5
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Here u go guys:
http://www.davebarton.com/Unleaded_Racing_Fuel_in_SoCal
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      04-21-2011, 04:20 PM   #6
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If u use a lot of race fuel from day to day. You might just order a drum of 50 gal. each time. That way you will have much more fresh gas than the ones in gas station.
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      04-21-2011, 05:06 PM   #7
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The station in Sunol sells Torco.

There are 3 76 locations that I know of:
Saratoga by highway 9 (Sunoco GT100)
Woodside Rd. (Sunoco GT100)
Almaden/Foxworthy in San Jose (not sure, I believe it is Sunoco)
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      04-22-2011, 08:12 AM   #8
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I am running 91 octane/104 octane in 75/25 ratio, car runs A LOT BETTER.

Check sunoco web site, they list all locations in every state that they sell the 100 octane fuel.

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      04-22-2011, 09:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
Woodside Rd. (Sunoco GT100)
I've been filling up my cars/bikes with their 100 octane for years. Definitely makes a noticeable difference on the E92.

PS, they also sell leaded fuel in the shop. 110 octane I believe?
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      04-22-2011, 09:16 AM   #10
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OK... dumb question... can you add an octane booster to regular 91 octane fuel and get the same result? I can't get anything other than 91 here.
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      04-23-2011, 03:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
We have all seen Pencilgeek's dynos which show a 30+ ft-lb improvement around 2-3k and ~35hp around 8200, but the peak figures do not tell you what the actual improvement in driving feel is.

The car runs noticeably smoother and less jerky, especially when cold. It has a lot more low end torque below 3000 RPM in day to day driving.
Ok, so I read this thread and thought yeah right. Please, slightly higher octane (9) will make that much of a difference. Bull. But being that it was a Friday night and I had spare time on my hands, and there just happened to be a 76 station selling 100 Octane ($10/gal) a few miles away, I thought, OK, I"m going to test this out and then call BS on this post.

So I drove to the station and filled up my car with 65% 100 Octane 76 Gasoline, 35% 91 Octane Shell. Then I drove off.

I should now say that my 2 biggest complaints about the M3 is the fact that it SUCKS in low end torque and is herky/jerky. The jerkiness is very noticeable when slowly driving off from a light, and the lack of low end torque is especially noticeable when you decelerate rapidly, take a hard right turn, then jump on the gas exiting the turn, there's just a dead/slow second before the engine really kicks in.

So I drove around with the Gasoline blend, and I must say I'm stunned. Floored. Flabbergasted. EVERYTHING the OP said is true, and then some. The car was not jerky once, not even with the power button engaged.

With the Power button disengaged, it felt like it had the HP of when the Power button was engaged on 91 Octane.

Low end torque is back, it now has torque in the low end like an AMG or 911. Moreover, the RPM needle is SO SILKY smooth and linear throughout the rev range. It pulls strong and smooth like a tug boat. And when just cruising the engine is smoother.

Also, in reverse, which is always a too hot/too cold endeavor, reverse is now linear and like a 335.

Honestly, the car is as smooth as a V-12 760Li but as torquey as an AMG or X5M.

I am beyond stunned. I feel like I just went from a 328 engine (my 91 octane M) to a V12 760Li ( my M with this 100/91 blend).

Words can't describe the difference.

So my questions are:

1. This is REALLY expensive. Honestly it would be cheaper to pick up a meth or crack addiction. Is there some way to get the similar boost for less money, such as those fuel additives/octane boosters they sell in car part stores?

2. Why does barely a 10% boost in octane have a monstrous affect on performance. What is the science behind it?

3. Why does the M engine benefit from it so much? I know Porsche, Mercedes, and other engines drive with a smooth rev range, tons of low end torque on 91 octane, Sure they probably would drive better on 100 octanem but they drive fine in low speed/low RPM on 91. Yet why does the M engine seem to need 100 octane in it to be more useable daily than almost any engine out there? There's gotta be something about the engine. Is the engine just so damn high-end F1 derived that it can't function nearly as well on "everyday" fuel? Kinda like you can't put a supercomputer in your home even if you have the space because you'd need industrial A/C Refrigerants running 24/7 just to cool the room?

And I'd encourage anyone reading this who has any torque/smoothness/jerkiness complaints to do the test I did. You won't believe the difference. I'm going to be so sad when this tank runs empty and I have to go back to 91 octane.
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      04-23-2011, 03:21 AM   #12
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^youre welcome

i'm gonna keep blending to 94-95 octane, it is so. worth. it.

the engine benefits so much because it's 12:1 compression without direct injection
merc's are either lower compression and/or direct injection. audis are direct injection. porsches are direct injection now and run similar compression (11.5-12.5).
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      04-23-2011, 07:25 AM   #13
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fuuuuuuuuuuuuk ...... as if $4.50 p/gal was not enough (price of 91 here in SoCal). Now I'm looking at a $100 full (16 gal) tank for a 60/40 mix.

Lets see some serious PG-like math on this and find out what the minimum mix ratio is, to still benefit from this. ($100 per tank = )
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      04-23-2011, 07:57 AM   #14
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i got interested in higher octane gas after my spark plugs were changed at 32000 mils and I started pinging on 91 octane chevron/shell fuel. No problem prior. So I am beginning to check if differing spark plugs are used, differing gap or what. For now I am happy just to blend so I do not get any detonation.

Yes its damn $$$, best thing I think is suncoco/VP fuel in 54g drum and share the cost and use enough to get about 95 octane in the car. Both fuels are widely avail but shipping is costly, check out each web site and call the distributors and ask for reatilers in the area. If you have even a small race track in the area, you likely have a retailer nearby.

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      04-23-2011, 10:06 AM   #15
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Besides being only 91 octane, CA gas is trash for two other reasons - 1) it's oxygenated, and 2) it's stuffed full of ethanol - BMW engines do not like ethanol.
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      04-23-2011, 10:31 AM   #16
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It's unfortunate that BMW is put in this position. They cant officially say 91 won't work well because then people won't buy the car (probably). BMW sells TONS of M3's in california. At least there is a fix. I don't care too much about the extra money but it is annoying to have to drive out to get the gas. I live in an apartment in SJ most of the time because it's close to work so I can't store fuel.
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      04-23-2011, 12:08 PM   #17
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I've been doing some research to see how to get the cost down. Does anyone have any experience with Lucas Oil Octane booster. The idea seems to be the same, as it seems to be a concentrated version of race fuel, and it less than $7 a bottle, perhaps adding one per tank is a good idea.

Anyone have any experience?

Here's a link to reviews and pricing:
http://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-1002.../dp/B001OZL9OQ
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      04-23-2011, 12:17 PM   #18
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no idea man I just get the real stuff

I know Torco sells a concentrate but I don't mess with their stuff after reading anectodes about engine teardowns after extended usage
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      04-23-2011, 12:41 PM   #19
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wow, ima try this today at the foxworthy store, it's only a few mins from my house, didn't know that
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      04-23-2011, 07:10 PM   #20
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No Sunoco 94 in Halifax?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
OK... dumb question... can you add an octane booster to regular 91 octane fuel and get the same result? I can't get anything other than 91 here.
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      04-23-2011, 09:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
We have all seen Pencilgeek's dynos which show a 30+ ft-lb improvement around 2-3k and ~35hp around 8200, but the peak figures do not tell you what the actual improvement in driving feel is.

The car runs noticeably smoother and less jerky, especially when cold. It has a lot more low end torque below 3000 RPM in day to day driving.

91 octane CA gas at sea level is crap, the engine has to detune itself a lot to run on it. I remember in Europe during my ED running 98 (equiv 94) the car ran smoother. (That was 4,000 miles ago.) Sure it will run on 91 and not hurt itself but the car truly benefits from 94-95+ MON gas at 12:1 compression.

I recommend Sunoco street fuels GT100 (100 octane). The Torco stuff available around some stations in CA is rumored to not be a fuel safe for long term use in street engines. Subaru WRX/STI tuners have noted that it leaves red (?) buildup on the inside of your motor. I'm no expert but the Sunoco stuff is proven to run clean. I think I'm going to mix some 100 into every tankful, even at $8/gal. Premium is $4.50 where I am, so it's an extra $25-30 per tank. Not that bad IMO but then again my commute is only 3.5 miles.
The Torco stuff is actually pretty good, yes it can turn the spark plugs a little orange but I know of 800rwhp C5 Vettes along with 800rwhp GT500's that burn the stuff with no issues and have been for years.

I have been running a blend of 4 gallons of 100 octane VP unleaded with 12 gallons of 91 cali crap gas and my car runs so much better than with just plain jane 91.

Dave
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      04-23-2011, 10:00 PM   #22
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I'm also close to the almaden/foxworthy site. I'll have to try a blend of the 100.
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