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      04-19-2011, 02:55 PM   #1
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E90 M3 vs. C63 AMG... in the rain

Well folks, last week I had the opportunity to test my M3 against a well driven C63 AMG in the rain at Summit Point main.

With a worse driver (me), on completely worn down stock tires (I mean gone), I can say with certainty the M3 is about 0.5 - 1 sec faster around a 1m30 lap. (Well it's probably close to 1m25 in the dry, who knows in the wet).

It's hard to say exactly how much faster, but at the rate I was approaching it could have actually been more than 1 sec. Unfortunately the session ended with a car off before I could press the advantage.

Just to dispel any potential driver arguments, it was my first time in the advanced group and the other driver (a neighbor it turns out) is a lot more experienced than me (drives a 911 cup car too).


So I can definitely say that the M3 is faster. And since my exhaust installation, sounds better too.

Waiting for the excuses now in 3, 2, 1...
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      04-20-2011, 02:43 AM   #2
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Niceee!!!

You might be the better driver though....
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      04-20-2011, 08:49 AM   #3
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did the c63 have the development package with LSD and more hp, if so that makes this even more impressive - if not it makes a lot of sense, think of the weight and lack of LSD.
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      04-20-2011, 10:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
did the c63 have the development package with LSD and more hp, if so that makes this even more impressive - if not it makes a lot of sense, think of the weight and lack of LSD.
No LSD in C63? And still it pulls better slides. How come?
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      04-20-2011, 11:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
Niceee!!!

You might be the better driver though....
Nah, I'm aware of where I fall short.

His line was very good, he was doing everything right, experimenting sometimes to find a better line, but the car is just not as balanced - all my slides and lurches were a lot smoother and more controllable than his. To the point that I was giving him a LOT of room, you know, just in case...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
did the c63 have the development package with LSD and more hp, if so that makes this even more impressive - if not it makes a lot of sense, think of the weight and lack of LSD.
Not sure - off the top of my head I would say no.

However a little bit in front of him there was this white C63 with the full tamale, chipped and whatnot. He didn't seem to be going any faster than his stock-looking brother and I would have passed him too in another few laps, given the opportunity.

No other way to say this, the M3 is simply magic in the rain. That's where the inherent balance shines and the car simply pulls it together.

By balance I don't simply mean between understeer and oversteer - I also mean that no one aspect of the car overwhelmes the others.
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      04-20-2011, 11:53 AM   #6
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nice worth
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      04-20-2011, 01:08 PM   #7
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All cars on the same tires?
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      04-20-2011, 01:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BMW4fun View Post
All cars on the same tires?
White AMG had something more track-oriented (still street legal, grooved and with plenty of thread). Black AMG was on stock tires in good condition. My M3 was on completely worn down OEM 18" PS2's - to the point where I need to change them within the next 500 miles.
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      04-20-2011, 05:12 PM   #9
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you have MDM on?
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      04-20-2011, 06:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
you have MDM on?
No, I have stick.
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      04-20-2011, 07:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostkhan View Post
No LSD in C63? And still it pulls better slides. How come?
thats what i'm thinking
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      04-20-2011, 08:05 PM   #12
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I would have caught him if...

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      04-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
I would have caught him if...
Well, I did catch him - passed 2 other cars to get to him. Not my fault someone crashed in front of us and they closed the session... (A nice E36 M3 with the rare cloth interior).

I did make this post half in jest of course, but I was actually pretty surprised. Based on other various tests I've seen or read about the cars seemed pretty close, so when you throw a better driver in the AMG and my worn tires I was expecting to be lapped, frankly speaking.

Imagine my surprise when I spotted him and was able to close within less than two laps. In the twisty and slippery parts his car seemed a handful, and even onto the main straight he couldn't really pull away (due to the greater exit speed of the M).

And of course I conveniently didn't mention the fully built Miata who was braille-reading my license plate in the same twisty stuff... oops...
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      04-20-2011, 10:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Well folks, last week I had the opportunity to test my M3 against a well driven C63 AMG in the rain at Summit Point main.

With a worse driver (me), on completely worn down stock tires (I mean gone), I can say with certainty the M3 is about 0.5 - 1 sec faster around a 1m30 lap. (Well it's probably close to 1m25 in the dry, who knows in the wet).

It's hard to say exactly how much faster, but at the rate I was approaching it could have actually been more than 1 sec. Unfortunately the session ended with a car off before I could press the advantage.

Just to dispel any potential driver arguments, it was my first time in the advanced group and the other driver (a neighbor it turns out) is a lot more experienced than me (drives a 911 cup car too).


So I can definitely say that the M3 is faster. And since my exhaust installation, sounds better too.

Waiting for the excuses now in 3, 2, 1...
All depends on the driver my friend, then what is a second anyway ... think about it
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      04-20-2011, 10:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolf-Dieter View Post
All depends on the driver my friend, then what is a second anyway ... think about it
On track, a second means you will get passed.

It doesn't really matter to me, I went there knowing it will rain, and knowing the tires were on the last gasp - so I went there to learn, not to brag or bully. All I'm doing here is showing my surprise, that's all.

In the grand scheme of things, this changes nothing of course - I still like my M3, and my neighbor still likes his C63, and we'll both continue to meet during the school run. Although I did catch a wistful glance in his eyes...
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      04-20-2011, 10:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpari09 View Post
You can have MDM with a manual

M Dynamic mode
Does that require NAV? Or a 2011 model year perhaps?

It sure isn't there in my car... and it sure would be nice to have in the rain...
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      04-20-2011, 10:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Waiting for the excuses now in 3, 2, 1...
All else being equal, a more torquey car will be more difficult in low traction situations.
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      04-21-2011, 11:21 AM   #18
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I'm guessing the C63 was driving with it's traction control on...
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      04-21-2011, 08:26 PM   #19
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just take a look at the topgear C63 vs. m3 vs. RS4 - M3 was the clear winner for balance (apple smash at the end).


In the wet tho I'd prefer my S4 =P
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      04-21-2011, 09:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
I'm guessing the C63 was driving with it's traction control on...
He tried both ways. In that session it was off I think, which is a brave move in the C63.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burrito007 View Post
just take a look at the topgear C63 vs. m3 vs. RS4 - M3 was the clear winner for balance (apple smash at the end).
That is an entertainment show, not a documentary. Must be based on some truth, I guess...
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      04-22-2011, 06:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burrito007 View Post
just take a look at the topgear C63 vs. m3 vs. RS4 - M3 was the clear winner for balance (apple smash at the end).


In the wet tho I'd prefer my S4 =P
apple smash is more driver skill
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