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      04-08-2011, 09:45 PM   #45
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Regardless of who made it - it's still Ford's product, It's their name on the trunk and the whole package is a piece of junk. One of the worst motors ever. I think they sued International... but who pays the price in the long run? Consumers like me.
ford payed the price as well not just the consumer, producing tons of vehicles will give you problems. in my opinion only the engine was a pice of junk, the chassis was the best in the industry until GM's recent redesign of its HD chassis.
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      04-08-2011, 09:48 PM   #46
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Regardless of who made it - it's still Ford's product, It's their name on the trunk and the whole package is a piece of junk. One of the worst motors ever. I think they sued International... but who pays the price in the long run? Consumers like me.
I picked up a '10 F150 a few months ago for one of my businesses. Truck has been excellent so far. Zero chance I was putting any cash into GM or Dodge after their bailouts. Not sure what the relevance of a 7 year old truck has to the current Ford line up or the improvements they've made.

Have you driven the new 5.0? It's a pretty good bang for the buck. It's a lot of car for $30K less than an M3/C63/ISF.
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      04-08-2011, 09:51 PM   #47
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Ford doesn't try to compete at the same price point as BMW, so you can't dog them for having interior materials of lesser quality. also, a HUGE part of the reason Ford (and indeed many other domestic auto manufacturers) have struggled is because of the greedy United Auto Workers (UAW) union. average wages of $40 are an enormous cost to overcome, and the reduction in profitability reduces funds available for research and development, making it extremely difficult for companies like Ford to be on the cutting edge of technology.

it's unfortunate that a country founded on capitalist ideals can become victim of labor unions thwarting a free market system. the greedy UAW made their own bed when the auto industry fell, and it disgusts me that my tax dollars went toward bailing their asses out (not all of them obviously).

putting all that aside, I think Ford did a great job on the 5.0 - I hope that it's a success for them.
+1 unions at first were great and still could be, but they have become greedy and their chokehold on the domestics have destroyed their competitiveness.
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      04-08-2011, 09:54 PM   #48
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I picked up a '10 F150 a few months ago for one of my businesses. Truck has been excellent so far. Zero chance I was putting any cash into GM or Dodge after their bailouts. Not sure what the relevance of a 7 year old truck has to the current Ford line up or the improvements they've made.

Have you driven the new 5.0? It's a pretty good bang for the buck. It's a lot of car for $30K less than an M3/C63/ISF.
Sorry if it got off topic - It steered towards the older truck as it got into details of Ford's lack of quality and innovation for the past 20-30 years, the stigma attached to their vehicles and reliability concerns, etc.

I hope the new Fords are nicer and I hope you have great luck with yours. They're definitely doing better.. I think Ford is making progress. I have driven lots of Mustangs, but not the newer ones. I hate the way they look, I hate the interiors and I have too many doubts about the overal smaller details, fit and finish, driving feel, technology of the cabin, etc etc.

Sorry to digress - (I just see the POS in the driveway every day)
Back on topic -
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      04-09-2011, 12:26 AM   #49
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it's unfortunate that a country founded on capitalist ideals can become victim of labor unions thwarting a free market system. the greedy UAW made their own bed when the auto industry fell, and it disgusts me that my tax dollars went toward bailing their asses out (not all of them obviously).

putting all that aside, I think Ford did a great job on the 5.0 - I hope that it's a success for them.
wow
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      04-09-2011, 01:24 AM   #50
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Call BS all you want. I'm the one who owns both and know what I am talking about. The problem is the kool aid drinkers on this forum that believe everything made by germans, especially BMW and Porsche, are made by the hands of god and HAVE to be great no matter what. You guys need to get over yourselves. God forbid someone talks down about BMW and Porsche. Every fagboy on this forum jumps up like they're defending a family member. Re-the-fuck-lax.
your comparing a vert to a coupe....
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      04-09-2011, 03:32 AM   #51
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I've driven both the 5.0 and M3. My hat is off to Ford for making an affordable pony car for the masses. However, just my opinion, but the M3 was a more fun and involved drive. To me, the 5.0 felt numb compared to the M3. Granted, the 5.0 has that fun off the line torque but besides that it was not a very involving car to me. I would describe the 5.0 as a club and the M3 as a scalpel. The way the M3 cornered, braked, and overall driving feedback inspired more confidence in me than the 5.0. I also think the M3 has some of the best seats in the business. Comfortable yet very supportive for spirited driving. The 5.0 has decent interior for its price point but not near the quality you get with the M3. Both great cars but meant for distinct buyers. Same goes for the vette vs. M3.
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      04-09-2011, 04:03 AM   #52
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Call BS all you want. I'm the one who owns both and know what I am talking about. The problem is the kool aid drinkers on this forum that believe everything made by germans, especially BMW and Porsche, are made by the hands of god and HAVE to be great no matter what. You guys need to get over yourselves. God forbid someone talks down about BMW and Porsche. Every fagboy on this forum jumps up like they're defending a family member. Re-the-fuck-lax.
I'll stir the pot here. I'm not a kool aid drinker for BMW as I do not even own one at the moment. However, I have owned a Porsche 911 GT3 and a Corvette and there is no comparison. It is no accident that Porsche has been at or near the top of J.D. Power quality surveys for years now. The Corvette is the best bang for the buck sports car out there. Period. However, the way certain (not all) Porsche's handle and the confidence they inspire in their drivers is something no Corvette can compare to. Just visit a Porsche forum for grins and see how many Z06's and ZR1's are being traded in for GT3's and RS's. And don't even get me started on the interior. That is the Corvette's weakest point--specifically the seats that have virtually no lateral support. I know, my old man owns 2 C6's (Z06 and ZR1). Again, I do not discount these cars as they are a performance bargain and, yes, are overall very reliable machines. America should be proud of them but in some areas they are not up to snuff with the competition--German or otherwise. An otherwise example being the GT-R. For the same money as a Z06, you get a car that will school any stock Corvette and has an interior somewhat worthy of its price point. At the end of the day, of course, it is a matter of personal preference. That is why they make different cars for different folks. If you want a car that is made by the hands of the gods, may I suggest an Italian car.
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      04-09-2011, 07:54 AM   #53
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I'll stir the pot here. I'm not a kool aid drinker for BMW as I do not even own one at the moment. However, I have owned a Porsche 911 GT3 and a Corvette and there is no comparison. It is no accident that Porsche has been at or near the top of J.D. Power quality surveys for years now. The Corvette is the best bang for the buck sports car out there. Period. However, the way certain (not all) Porsche's handle and the confidence they inspire in their drivers is something no Corvette can compare to. Just visit a Porsche forum for grins and see how many Z06's and ZR1's are being traded in for GT3's and RS's. And don't even get me started on the interior. That is the Corvette's weakest point--specifically the seats that have virtually no lateral support. I know, my old man owns 2 C6's (Z06 and ZR1). Again, I do not discount these cars as they are a performance bargain and, yes, are overall very reliable machines. America should be proud of them but in some areas they are not up to snuff with the competition--German or otherwise. An otherwise example being the GT-R. For the same money as a Z06, you get a car that will school any stock Corvette and has an interior somewhat worthy of its price point. At the end of the day, of course, it is a matter of personal preference. That is why they make different cars for different folks. If you want a car that is made by the hands of the gods, may I suggest an Italian car.

Come on man -- you are comparing a $120K GT3 to a $70K Z06

Porsches are fantastic cars but are also way overpriced. Of course it's going to have better interior, bits, etc. It better for the delta in price points. There is no way in hell it is $50K better than a Z06.....while being slower. I've owned Porsches and Vettes as well and no rear engine Porsche has ever inspired any confidence in me. As a matter of fact, at speed north of 120 mph the front is quite twitchy. The CaymanS is a different story. It instills more confidnece than ANY car I've ever driven. It's just underpowered and too small. There are plenty of people that went the other way as well --- from a Porsche to a Vette after recognizing exactly what I have stated above re: cost factor.

The GT-R is also a fantastic car but it's now $90K.

Some people care more about the interior than others and those that care that much about it, will opt for the Porsche....others will take $10K and get this to "spruce" up the interior of the Vette.

I do agree with you on the most important part --- buy what you like!!
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      04-09-2011, 01:46 PM   #54
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alms, you're right, Porsche's are expensive when compared to their counterparts. In fact, per unit, Porsche is the single most profitable mass produced car out there. However, to a degree, I am in the camp of you get what you pay for. While it costs more, I like the way you can customize the interior on a Porsche. I do like the aftermarket pictures of the Z06 seats and dash you show. That definitely looks like the way to go with the vette. As far as the Porsche not inspiring as much confidence as the Vette, try a GT3 or RS 911, not just a regular one. They've done wonders with the handling and aerodynamics on those cars--even with the "rear engine bias". My GT3 felt just as comfortable above 120 as any Corvette I've driven. The Vettes, to me, start feeling nervous in triple digit speeds. If you want a truly stable car well into the triple digits, the Italians have that covered--for a price. I also agree with you about the Cayman and Boxster. If they put a 450hp engine in that platform, what a car we would have on our hands. Of course, they won't intrude on their halo car's territory--too bad.

As far as the GTR goes, a loaded Z06 now costs more than the GTR premium. See the comparo in last month's Car and Driver. And for the money, it is a fantastic car and one I'm seriously considering.

At the end of the day, we both agree buy what you want. As I said before, the Corvette is the best bang for your buck sports car. While I prefer the Porsche or a Lambo, I am proud that the Americans can make cars of this caliber and believe they are and have been on the comeback. The 5.0 is also evidence of this. The Germans should be taking heed and will need to continuously improve their products and provide better value for the dollar or they may risk losing sales.
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      04-09-2011, 02:31 PM   #55
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alms, you're right, Porsche's are expensive when compared to their counterparts. In fact, per unit, Porsche is the single most profitable mass produced car out there. However, to a degree, I am in the camp of you get what you pay for. While it costs more, I like the way you can customize the interior on a Porsche. I do like the aftermarket pictures of the Z06 seats and dash you show. That definitely looks like the way to go with the vette. As far as the Porsche not inspiring as much confidence as the Vette, try a GT3 or RS 911, not just a regular one. They've done wonders with the handling and aerodynamics on those cars--even with the "rear engine bias". My GT3 felt just as comfortable above 120 as any Corvette I've driven. The Vettes, to me, start feeling nervous in triple digit speeds. If you want a truly stable car well into the triple digits, the Italians have that covered--for a price. I also agree with you about the Cayman and Boxster. If they put a 450hp engine in that platform, what a car we would have on our hands. Of course, they won't intrude on their halo car's territory--too bad.

As far as the GTR goes, a loaded Z06 now costs more than the GTR premium. See the comparo in last month's Car and Driver. And for the money, it is a fantastic car and one I'm seriously considering.

At the end of the day, we both agree buy what you want. As I said before, the Corvette is the best bang for your buck sports car. While I prefer the Porsche or a Lambo, I am proud that the Americans can make cars of this caliber and believe they are and have been on the comeback. The 5.0 is also evidence of this. The Germans should be taking heed and will need to continuously improve their products and provide better value for the dollar or they may risk losing sales.
I'd love to get some seat time in a GT3. I don't doubt what you say about them one bit. They are masters at the track from what I read and see.

I've got the 4LT in my in coming Grand Sport and hopefully that will satisfy me from an interior standpoint.....while recognizing it still isn't the quality of a Porsche. I'm a sucker for the exterior styling of the Vette. If the GT-R came in manual, I may have gone that way instead. I considered it greatly along with the M3. I debated for over two months on which way to go.

Congrats to you for being able to do the Italian thing. Unfortunately at this time, they are just too far out of my price range. A 458 (or even an F430) would look so nice in my garage.
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      04-09-2011, 03:30 PM   #56
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I'd love to get some seat time in a GT3. I don't doubt what you say about them one bit. They are masters at the track from what I read and see.

I've got the 4LT in my in coming Grand Sport and hopefully that will satisfy me from an interior standpoint.....while recognizing it still isn't the quality of a Porsche. I'm a sucker for the exterior styling of the Vette. If the GT-R came in manual, I may have gone that way instead. I considered it greatly along with the M3. I debated for over two months on which way to go.

Congrats to you for being able to do the Italian thing. Unfortunately at this time, they are just too far out of my price range. A 458 (or even an F430) would look so nice in my garage.
Congrats on the Grand Sport. I too dig the exterior on the Vette's--especially the GS, Z06, and ZR1. Put them next to a base car and you just see such a difference. I am having the same debate as you, as I wish the GTR came in a true 6 speed manual. I enjoy rowing my own, so that makes it a difficult decision. I can't deny the performance of the GTR really appeals to me and I can put my little girls booster seats in it. I'm also considering the M3 as it has the 3 pedal option and I like its driving dynamics. Decisions, decisions.

You too will be able to the Italian thing should you want to. They will continue to depreciate (although recently some models have seen a slight uptick in pricing due to summer approaching in many areas) and will come close to the price of a new Z06 in the not too distant future. If you get the chance try one (an F430 or Gallardo). Both are more reliable than you would think and, to me, just an experience to drive. While they're not quite as easy to work on as a Corvette, they're not that bad. I've changed the fluids on my Superleggera myself and it was fairly straight forward. To be honest, these cars are probably on par in performance with regards to the Z06. However, above 100, they hunker down and provide both confidence and excellent acceleration. I've had my SL up to 170 and it felt like I was glued to the ground. They just feel great in triple digits and they like it there. Again, congrats on the GS. I think the Folks at GM hit a home run there and I would guess that is the best selling Corvette model. Cheers.
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      04-09-2011, 07:30 PM   #57
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Congrats on the Grand Sport. I too dig the exterior on the Vette's--especially the GS, Z06, and ZR1. Put them next to a base car and you just see such a difference. I am having the same debate as you, as I wish the GTR came in a true 6 speed manual. I enjoy rowing my own, so that makes it a difficult decision. I can't deny the performance of the GTR really appeals to me and I can put my little girls booster seats in it. I'm also considering the M3 as it has the 3 pedal option and I like its driving dynamics. Decisions, decisions.

You too will be able to the Italian thing should you want to. They will continue to depreciate (although recently some models have seen a slight uptick in pricing due to summer approaching in many areas) and will come close to the price of a new Z06 in the not too distant future. If you get the chance try one (an F430 or Gallardo). Both are more reliable than you would think and, to me, just an experience to drive. While they're not quite as easy to work on as a Corvette, they're not that bad. I've changed the fluids on my Superleggera myself and it was fairly straight forward. To be honest, these cars are probably on par in performance with regards to the Z06. However, above 100, they hunker down and provide both confidence and excellent acceleration. I've had my SL up to 170 and it felt like I was glued to the ground. They just feel great in triple digits and they like it there. Again, congrats on the GS. I think the Folks at GM hit a home run there and I would guess that is the best selling Corvette model. Cheers.

Thank you for the congrats on the GS. Much appreciated. Nice to hear that you can change your own fluids in your SL...I'm not much of a "wrench" but I can certainly do my own things to some degree (wheels, brakes, fluids, etc.)

I sure hope I can pick one up in the next 5 years or so. Wife and I just got back from Ft. Lauderdale and the place is loaded with Ferrari's and Lambos. Was like a kid in a candy store

The GT-R or the M3....can't really go wrong there. I just like the fact that the GT-R is so unique where the M3 is more pedestrian looking. IMO BMW should start building the Z4M again with their latest bodystyle. Keep us posted on which route you go.
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      04-09-2011, 09:22 PM   #58
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Call BS all you want. I'm the one who owns both and know what I am talking about. The problem is the kool aid drinkers on this forum that believe everything made by germans, especially BMW and Porsche, are made by the hands of god and HAVE to be great no matter what. You guys need to get over yourselves. God forbid someone talks down about BMW and Porsche. Every fagboy on this forum jumps up like they're defending a family member. Re-the-fuck-lax.
Not drinking Kool-aid. Just based off my experience in my fathers 2004-2005 and a few buddies who had 2007-2008 Z06s. IMO, Vettes have a lot of great qualities. They look great (without the chrome wheels), perform great and are a good bang for the buck. However, interior fit and finish, is definitely not one of their strong suits. They have a lot of hard plastics and synthetics coupled with off-the-shelf Chevy parts that seem to come from a Cobalt; because of this, they are prone to more creeks and cracks than most cars in their price range.

However, because of their terrible interiors, a few aftermarket manufacturers make interior kits (dash, console, seats) that look amazing, are of high quality and actually provides the Vette with the interior it deserves from the factory.

Just my two cents.

BTW, that new Z06 Carbon in pretty bad-ass! Saw it at the DC carshow earlier in the year and was really impressed ( except for the interior).

SZ
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      04-10-2011, 10:52 PM   #59
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Not drinking Kool-aid. Just based off my experience in my fathers 2004-2005 and a few buddies who had 2007-2008 Z06s. IMO, Vettes have a lot of great qualities. They look great (without the chrome wheels), perform great and are a good bang for the buck. However, interior fit and finish, is definitely not one of their strong suits. They have a lot of hard plastics and synthetics coupled with off-the-shelf Chevy parts that seem to come from a Cobalt; because of this, they are prone to more creeks and cracks than most cars in their price range.

However, because of their terrible interiors, a few aftermarket manufacturers make interior kits (dash, console, seats) that look amazing, are of high quality and actually provides the Vette with the interior it deserves from the factory.

Just my two cents.


BTW, that new Z06 Carbon in pretty bad-ass! Saw it at the DC carshow earlier in the year and was really impressed ( except for the interior).

SZ
I have to agree. Forums are rampant with speculation...and it's interesting how many people with strong opinions never even owned the car in question....

But back to the point. IMO, The Vette never got it's due credit. It's a supercar period. I owned a Z06 before my M5 and I have to admit that I was pretty shocked at the difference in performance.

Lots of peeps would say..."yeah the vette musta been faster in a straight line" etc

No...the Vette was incredibly faster in ANY situation, especially on a track. Let's get that straight.

I took my M5 to the track one day and the OEM z06 was spanking everything on the track.... 0-60 in first AND 24 MPG on the freeway, place to put several bags of clubs AND a car that an average joe can afford to put 10k a year on......

Fit and finish issues, interior, quality.... all ? marks, yes..... but an amazing car nonetheless.
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      04-10-2011, 10:54 PM   #60
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wow that's fast. does it break down in 10 seconds flat too?
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      04-10-2011, 10:56 PM   #61
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wow that's fast. does it break down in 10 seconds flat too?
My Z06 didn't break down once. Nor did I actually have one squeak.

While I love my new m3 and prefer it overall to my Z06 I would be very scared to run into one at a stoplight or at the track.

At least til I get my trophys and my SC installed Then my nicer car can at least hang in there.
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      04-11-2011, 02:07 PM   #62
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wow that's fast. does it break down in 10 seconds flat too?
hurr durr
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      04-16-2011, 01:16 AM   #63
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Getting the new Mustang into second gear could be a problem:

Faulty Chinese-built transmissions plague new Ford Mustang

http://ca.jalopnik.com/#!5792482/faulty-chinese+built-transmissions-plague-new-ford-mustang
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      04-18-2011, 02:21 PM   #64
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I now have just under 6000 miles on my '11 Mustang GT and it is the most solid, trouble-free car I have ever owned. Granted, it's still basically new, but there is not a single rattle.

My GT is every bit as solid feeling and quiet (if not even more so) than my 335i Coupe.

That said, I think every Mustang made before 2010 is garbage and cannot represent the massive number of improvements Ford has made to the car in the last year. It's not fair to compare a 2006 328i to a 2010 M3 just as it's not fair to compare a 2007 Mustang GT to an '11 Mustang GT. TOTALLY different car.
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      07-12-2011, 01:57 PM   #65
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I now have just under 6000 miles on my '11 Mustang GT and it is the most solid, trouble-free car I have ever owned. Granted, it's still basically new, but there is not a single rattle.

My GT is every bit as solid feeling and quiet (if not even more so) than my 335i Coupe.

That said, I think every Mustang made before 2010 is garbage and cannot represent the massive number of improvements Ford has made to the car in the last year. It's not fair to compare a 2006 328i to a 2010 M3 just as it's not fair to compare a 2007 Mustang GT to an '11 Mustang GT. TOTALLY different car.
I've got the M3 on my mind for quite sometime (prefer German over American any day) ... Cousin of mine has the GT 5.0 with everything in it. Always hear a weird whining noise in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Do you hear that in your car as well? Also, "there's no replacement for displacement," the M3 gets away with the 90+ torque differential because its built with every bit of the everyday driver in mind. The feel of the inside of the 'Stang is just as cheap as the price tag suggests.

When I get my M3, my NYS Lic Plate will read, "STANGDIS", look out for it everyone. No offense to anyone who drives a Mustang, just my cousin who owns one.
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      07-12-2011, 02:05 PM   #66
kyleb350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAERD TEW View Post
Cousin of mine has the GT 5.0 with everything in it. Always hear a weird whining noise in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Do you hear that in your car as well?
Yes, it's quite noticeable, especially right after startup, but either I get used to it or it quiets down a little.

I went back and forth on whether to get a used M3 or a new 5.0. Coming from a 335i, I was a bit bias knowing how good it feels to drive the BMW, so I ended up with the M
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