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      04-07-2011, 03:05 PM   #23
templarklimek
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What does made in Detroit have anything to do with it? You live in NJ. The armpit of america. Does that mean you're a loser? You make it seem like BMW is the best made car in the world. My $80K BMW squeeks and rattles like a 20 yr old car. My Corvette doesnt.


I'm sure if we gave ford the 30K difference the interior would be nicer. I'm proud American car makers are doing so well now.

Last edited by templarklimek; 04-07-2011 at 03:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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      04-07-2011, 03:10 PM   #24
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Also, Lincoln should hijack the Mustang platform and do an upscale GT type car to better compete in the higher end coupe market(M3, CTS-V, AMG, etc.) I'm baffled as to why Ford is doing so much better but Lincoln IMHO just isn't up to par.
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      04-08-2011, 06:56 AM   #25
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I think the next generation Mustang is the one that BMW might actually have to worry about. Ford has said that they plan to develop the Mustang as a car that will appeal the buyers in all their markets, especially Europe, and the retro styling will become a thing of the past. Considering the improvements Ford has made in some of their other cars things could get very interesting with the next generation Mustang. With that said the current car isn't at all bad and presents a very nice performance bargain.
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      04-08-2011, 07:10 AM   #26
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What do you guys think about this?



Im considering doing the exact same thing if I buy.
fast car but i like the look of the camaro better
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      04-08-2011, 08:56 AM   #27
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fast car but i like the look of the camaro better
You might like the look of the Camaro better, but the Mustang is a lot better car to drive.

My father-in-law has a 2010 SS and I had a 2011 GT500 so I was able to compare the cars back to back a few times. I found the Chevy hard to see out of and to have a lower quality interior compared to my Mustang. Next, the Camaro might have the worst modern factory steering wheel short of the round plank that came in the Pontiac G8 GXP. Also, the Chevy just feels like you are driving a big boat. Body motions are not well controlled and the poor visibility makes the car hard to place in corners. Add in the fact that the SS doesn't run like you would expect a 400+hp car to run it and the whole package is a fail in my eyes.
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      04-08-2011, 09:36 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by stingray23 View Post
What does made in Detroit have anything to do with it? You live in NJ. The armpit of america. Does that mean you're a loser? You make it seem like BMW is the best made car in the world. My $80K BMW squeeks and rattles like a 20 yr old car. My Corvette doesnt.
Couldn't have said it better. My dad's 2003 Sable still doesn't squeek or rattle. That car is a tank. Besides Ford's quality these days is among the best. Drive one before you make that judgement about Detroit quality.

Considering the number of rattles in the new E9X M3's and then the notorius sensor issues in most german cars......lets not use 'German Engineering' as the benchmark in quality anymore.
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      04-08-2011, 10:35 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray23 View Post
What does made in Detroit have anything to do with it? You live in NJ. The armpit of america. Does that mean you're a loser? You make it seem like BMW is the best made car in the world. My $80K BMW squeeks and rattles like a 20 yr old car. My Corvette doesnt.
I lemon lawed a 2008 Corvette because the door panels didn't just rattle, they would pop off and the dealer couldn't fix it. It also leaked, keyless didn't work, the suspension preload was way off from the factory and probably other stuff I'm forgetting. I had a CTS-V before that with even worse problems and I got both new. My M3 has been flawless from day one. I think you're the odd man out here.
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      04-08-2011, 02:51 PM   #30
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I drive over cobble stone streets bad enough to make your kidneys bleed.... I dont have any rattles....???
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      04-08-2011, 02:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray23 View Post
What does made in Detroit have anything to do with it? You live in NJ. The armpit of america. Does that mean you're a loser? You make it seem like BMW is the best made car in the world. My $80K BMW squeeks and rattles like a 20 yr old car. My Corvette doesnt.
I find it hard to believe that your $80k BMW squeaks more than your Vette.

Sorry bro...Gotta call the BS flag on this one.

I only have one small squeek coming from my 2009 m3..by the speaker. I use it as a DD, in DC, over pot holes and shitty roads and I have about $13k miles.

My 2011 X5..has no squeeks at all (granted, it is new with only about 4k miles).

Every single Vette I have driven in (new and old) squeeks...must be all the hard plastic.

-SZ
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      04-08-2011, 03:11 PM   #32
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My opinion is that GM and Ford have been pumping out crap for 20-30 years and while it's great they're making such huge progress, I'm surprised that people are so quick to jump on the CTS-V > M5 and Mustang > M3 bandwagons.

BMW has always made awesome cars and while the American options can be had for cheaper I still think they have a long way to go to offer a complete car. I would never buy a CTS-V or a Mustang..I don't care if they are a tad faster here or there it's all the little things and certain intangibles that add up to disappointment. They've been doing that for 20 years, so who would be surprised?

BMW has been making awesome cars for a long ass time.
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      04-08-2011, 04:35 PM   #33
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My opinion is that GM and Ford have been pumping out crap for 20-30 years and while it's great they're making such huge progress, I'm surprised that people are so quick to jump on the CTS-V > M5 and Mustang > M3 bandwagons.

BMW has always made awesome cars and while the American options can be had for cheaper I still think they have a long way to go to offer a complete car. I would never buy a CTS-V or a Mustang..I don't care if they are a tad faster here or there it's all the little things and certain intangibles that add up to disappointment. They've been doing that for 20 years, so who would be surprised?

BMW has been making awesome cars for a long ass time.
for the past 100 years ford has made awesome complete cars, the Ford GT being its finest to date. but unlike BMW the domestics have to compete on a different market and favor cheap over expensive.
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      04-08-2011, 04:36 PM   #34
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I find it hard to believe that your $80k BMW squeaks more than your Vette.

Sorry bro...Gotta call the BS flag on this one.

I only have one small squeek coming from my 2009 m3..by the speaker. I use it as a DD, in DC, over pot holes and shitty roads and I have about $13k miles.

My 2011 X5..has no squeeks at all (granted, it is new with only about 4k miles).

Every single Vette I have driven in (new and old) squeeks...must be all the hard plastic.

-SZ
I'll further back up what Stingray says. Look at my signature....I've owned the cars I talk about. I've had two C6 version Vettes (and the third one is on it's way next week) and they both were rattle free. No exageration at all. I'm no fanboy of any brand---I think thats farily obvious but what I have owned in the past. Like I said in another thread in the M3 forum, that does not mean that the 2011 Grand Sport that I have coming will be rattle free....but if history is any indication, I like my chances. Have you owned a 2005 or later model year Vette?

My M5 had a couple of dashboard rattles. My 335's were built pretty solid save for some rear seat noise....I won't mention the HPFP issues with BMW, though.

My wife's 2006 X5 is more solidly built, by a long shot, over any BMW car I've owned, driven, been in. Don't doubt your experience there for a minute.

My Porsche 997S rattled more than ANY car I've owned.

No one is going to blow sunshine up my ass about how great and noise free European cars are. It just isn't true.

It is actually laughable how sensitive people are about what they drive and this includes all makes and models. BMW and Porsche guys really get butt hurt the most of any though.
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      04-08-2011, 04:41 PM   #35
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for the past 100 years ford has made awesome complete cars, the Ford GT being its finest to date. but unlike BMW the domestics have to compete on a different market and favor cheap over expensive.
That must be why they've flirted with bankruptcy several times and have had a crap reputation for quality, reliablity and innovation?

Like i said - they're doing better - which I like to see... but if they had been making awesome cars for the past 100 years - even after the industries of Japan and Germany were devastated by WWII (Helluva head start there) why did they end up in the toilet? I guess maybe because most people don't share your opinion?
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      04-08-2011, 04:41 PM   #36
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european brands have had horrible quality issues in the past, to think they din't and will no have any in the future is plain ridicules.
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      04-08-2011, 04:55 PM   #37
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That must be why they've flirted with bankruptcy several times and have had a crap reputation for quality, reliablity and innovation?

Like i said - they're doing better - which I like to see... but if they had been making awesome cars for the past 100 years - even after the industries of Japan and Germany were devastated by WWII (Helluva head start there) why did they end up in the toilet? I guess maybe because most people don't share your opinion?
i'm sure many people will share my opinion.
the japanese car industry was non existent before WWII, just like european brands were non-existent in the US market, ford alone is widely respected in europe.
Ford is on the top of reliability charts at the moment.
GM and ford have been and still are one of the best innovators in the industry, one example Nissan use Ford develop Plasma Transferred Wire Arc process in the GTR engine.
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      04-08-2011, 05:09 PM   #38
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Ford doesn't try to compete at the same price point as BMW, so you can't dog them for having interior materials of lesser quality. also, a HUGE part of the reason Ford (and indeed many other domestic auto manufacturers) have struggled is because of the greedy United Auto Workers (UAW) union. average wages of $40 are an enormous cost to overcome, and the reduction in profitability reduces funds available for research and development, making it extremely difficult for companies like Ford to be on the cutting edge of technology.

it's unfortunate that a country founded on capitalist ideals can become victim of labor unions thwarting a free market system. the greedy UAW made their own bed when the auto industry fell, and it disgusts me that my tax dollars went toward bailing their asses out (not all of them obviously).

putting all that aside, I think Ford did a great job on the 5.0 - I hope that it's a success for them.
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      04-08-2011, 05:18 PM   #39
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i'm sure many people will share my opinion.
the japanese car industry was non existent before WWII, just like european brands were non-existent in the US market, ford alone is widely respected in europe.
Ford is on the top of reliability charts at the moment.
GM and ford have been and still are one of the best innovators in the industry, one example Nissan use Ford develop Plasma Transferred Wire Arc process in the GTR engine.
That's all good. You're welcome to your opinion.
I wish the best for Ford. I'm an American after all.

However, the 2004 F350 6.0 Powerstroke that's in my driveway isn't helping. It's a total P.O.S. The majority of those motors go bad before 80k and they've had multiple class action lawsuits. The last decent Diesel Ford had made for them was the 7.2.... Yeah, maybe the new ones are getting better (supposedly, maybe?) but that doesn't change the fact that I have a POS time bomb in my driveway that I can't trust to take my family on any kind of a far away vacation. Everything else on the truck has fallen apart too. Just a hunk of junk....

Anyway, I'm getting off topic. You buy Fords and I'll wait till they EARN their reptuation back in the U.S.
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      04-08-2011, 06:53 PM   #40
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That's all good. You're welcome to your opinion.
I wish the best for Ford. I'm an American after all.

However, the 2004 F350 6.0 Powerstroke that's in my driveway isn't helping. It's a total P.O.S. The majority of those motors go bad before 80k and they've had multiple class action lawsuits. The last decent Diesel Ford had made for them was the 7.2.... Yeah, maybe the new ones are getting better (supposedly, maybe?) but that doesn't change the fact that I have a POS time bomb in my driveway that I can't trust to take my family on any kind of a far away vacation. Everything else on the truck has fallen apart too. Just a hunk of junk....

Anyway, I'm getting off topic. You buy Fords and I'll wait till they EARN their reptuation back in the U.S.
Ford doesn't manufacture that engine - it's made by Navistar (think International trucks). Also, the fact that there's a class action suit doesn't conclude much. Those trucks are manufactured in very high volumes, so if there's a systemic problem, it would obviously affect a large number of people.

And the old PSD was a 7.3L, not a 7.2L (sorry, but I'm a bear for detail).
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      04-08-2011, 07:24 PM   #41
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lol u guys took this thread to the next level. I was just wondering if u would buy for a fun car to go fast in on weekends and have the m3 for the track or mountain adventures
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      04-08-2011, 07:32 PM   #42
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Ford doesn't manufacture that engine - it's made by Navistar (think International trucks). Also, the fact that there's a class action suit doesn't conclude much. Those trucks are manufactured in very high volumes, so if there's a systemic problem, it would obviously affect a large number of people.

And the old PSD was a 7.3L, not a 7.2L (sorry, but I'm a bear for detail).
O.T.

Does your name come from this comic?

http://hipsterhitler.com/archive/21-visit/

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      04-08-2011, 09:00 PM   #43
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O.T.

Does your name come from this comic?

http://hipsterhitler.com/archive/21-visit/

-scheherazade
LOL. No, it certainly doesn't. A friend of mine used to call this other kid 'brosef' because he was always using the word 'bro.' For some reason, I still use the word 'brosef' quite a bit.
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      04-08-2011, 09:31 PM   #44
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Ford doesn't manufacture that engine - it's made by Navistar (think International trucks). Also, the fact that there's a class action suit doesn't conclude much. Those trucks are manufactured in very high volumes, so if there's a systemic problem, it would obviously affect a large number of people.

And the old PSD was a 7.3L, not a 7.2L (sorry, but I'm a bear for detail).
Regardless of who made it - it's still Ford's product, It's their name on the trunk and the whole package is a piece of junk. One of the worst motors ever. I think they sued International... but who pays the price in the long run? Consumers like me.
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