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      03-22-2011, 10:18 PM   #1
newdadkel
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Anyone tried *Anti-aging Therapy*?

Two different doctors here have started up these "Anti-aging" or "Wellness" centers that are designed to supplement hormones but under doctor supervision. So instead of buying GH, Test, or anabolic steroids from local shady bodybuilder, you can have a complete blood profile drawn and have legal prescriptions for these agents, usually GH and Test. Of course, your levels need to be low, but they are physiologically lower for every male after 3o.
One of the guys is a friend of mine and mentions it everytime I see him.
Just curious if anyone else has gone through one of these "programs."
Im 36 so I know that the levels will be low enough to get started, but there are not too many people here that have done it or willing to talk about it.
Illegal stuff is easy to get but not worth the risk.
Considering this is much easier if you have a doctor with his license on the line and not mine
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      03-22-2011, 10:24 PM   #2
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What type of "physician" is running this "clinic"? Sounds a bit sketchy...Lots of people carry the title of "doctor."
Just remember...just because it has a "doctor's" recommendation or it's legal, does not mean that it is good for you. All medications and therapies have some form of side effect...yes ALL of them.
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      03-22-2011, 10:36 PM   #3
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One is a cardiologist and another is a general surgeon who is branching out. They have both practiced for several years, so they are not new grads. Their credibility is not in question. There are actually medical conferences and symposia addressing anti-aging therapies all of the time.
Of course anything can hurt you no matter who is recommending it. This is not the point of this thread.

There is a lot of research into the effects, both beneficial and detrimental, of GH and Test. Like with anything else, you will always have people who go to the extremes: is some is good, then 1000x normal dose will be better.
What I am trying to discern is if anyone has actually gone in for the lab work and been put on the supplementation, and what they saw as a result.
Small doses of GH have been shown to be very beneficial. And for men with low testosterone, supplementation to normative values has been very beneficial as well.
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      03-23-2011, 07:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdadkel View Post
One is a cardiologist and another is a general surgeon who is branching out. They have both practiced for several years, so they are not new grads. Their credibility is not in question. There are actually medical conferences and symposia addressing anti-aging therapies all of the time.
Of course anything can hurt you no matter who is recommending it. This is not the point of this thread.

There is a lot of research into the effects, both beneficial and detrimental, of GH and Test. Like with anything else, you will always have people who go to the extremes: is some is good, then 1000x normal dose will be better.
What I am trying to discern is if anyone has actually gone in for the lab work and been put on the supplementation, and what they saw as a result.
Small doses of GH have been shown to be very beneficial. And for men with low testosterone, supplementation to normative values has been very beneficial as well.
Anyone who claims to provide an effective anti-aging regimen as simple as GH and androgens has lost all credibility, in my opinion.

Current medical opinion is that these factors are merely correlated to long lifespan, and are NOT causative. In other words, you can't just administer GH or an androgen and expect a longer life-span. In fact, studies have show that testosterone and estrogen are linked to increased mortality, such as prostate cancer. As for Growth Hormone, genetic studies indicate that mutations in the IGF-1 receptor (the receptor that binds to the primary product of Growth Hormone, Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 [IGF-1]) that decrease its function are associated with longevity/long lifespan. This is pretty new research (came out in 2008/2009), but it suggests that the growth hormone link is a genetic one: if your IGF-1 receptor is defective, you will have upregulated levels of GH and IGF. The research I've discussed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2265137/

Please see this review article from the New England Journal of Medicine:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp020186


"A recent double-blind, placebo-controlled study involving 27 women and 34 men, 68 to 88 years of age, who were given growth hormone or placebo for 6.5 months confirmed the effects of growth hormone on body composition; there was no change in muscle strength or maximal oxygen uptake during exercise in either group.3 This study corroborated the findings of a study by Papadakis et al. involving 52 healthy men, 70 to 85 years of age, who were given placebo or growth hormone for six months.4 Not mentioned on the “antiaging” Web sites is a study of 18 healthy men, 65 to 82 years of age, who underwent progressive strength training for 14 weeks, followed by an additional 10 weeks of strength training plus either growth hormone or placebo.5 In that study, resistance exercise training increased muscle strength significantly; the addition of growth hormone did not result in any further improvement. Going to the gym is beneficial and certainly cheaper than growth hormone.

The second consideration is the effect of long-term administration of growth hormone. It is not known whether long-term administration of growth hormone in the elderly is potentially harmful — particularly with regard to the risk of cancer, given that older age is associated with an increased incidence of cancer. In 152 healthy men, the relative risk of the subsequent development of prostate cancer was increased by a factor of 4.3 among men who had serum concentrations of insulin-like growth factor I in the highest quartile, as compared with those whose concentrations were in the lowest quartile. This finding does not demonstrate causality by growth hormone or insulin-like growth factor I, but it does raise concern about giving older men growth hormone, which increases serum concentrations of insulin-like growth factor I.

....


Antiaging therapy with growth hormone has not yet been proved effective according to objective outcome criteria.
"

Some of this is quite technical and complex - endocrinology is not a simple field by any means. But PLEASE, do not go off consulting with some quackjobs. A good resource to help you identify such misguided therapies/'doctors' is http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/hgh.html

Stay safe, and consult your primary care doc before submitting to any therapies you are administered at the conference. I personally will steer clear of any 'anti-aging' regimens like these until a large randomized, controlled trial has validated its efficacy.

Last edited by Echo M3; 03-23-2011 at 08:22 PM.
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      03-23-2011, 08:20 PM   #5
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My anti-aging recipe:

Plenty of exercise
Plenty of water
Plenty of vegetables
Plenty of topical vitamin A and C
Plenty of sunblock (SPF 30)
and
Plenty of sex
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      03-23-2011, 08:27 PM   #6
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Yeah I've done it, what do you want to know?
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      03-23-2011, 09:11 PM   #7
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Thanks pman for the nice review. I have looked at the same studies, and agree with GH in regards to not increasing strength, cardiovascular endurance, or overall change in body composition. What it does seem to show in case reports (no great studies that I have been able to find) is improved recovery, and slight increase in mobilizing fat for energy, through the same receptor pathway you mentioned. Above these doses, you are more likely to get the unwanted side effects.
The testosterone part of the equation is what will increase strength and muscle size, not GH.
This is a very controversial topic, and is not widely advertised in our area because of the overall conservative social sentiment. However, I know it is much more advertised and available in more liberal areas (this is where the conventions are usually held for obvious reasons).

MrBlonde, what was your program, for how long, and what results did you see.
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      03-23-2011, 09:47 PM   #8
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I did it for 2 years. Bloodwork/urine every 3 months to confirm status of all hormones.
It's not a simple thing to do, every hormone interacts with your natural production and other hormones in your body.

For that reason you end up having to supplement hormones you might not think are required. For example once your testosterone levels rise you need more Thyroid and Cortisol.

I used:
+ Growth hormone
+ Testosterone
+ Thyroid
+ Cortisol
+ Melatonin
+ DHEA
+ Chrysin
+ Finasteride
+ Vitamin D3

The results I saw were bloodwork confirming my hormone status for al these were above a 21 year old male in good health. My testosterone level was 330+% of the normal maximum range.

As anyone who has used steroids knows, when you have a lot of testosterone your body will convert to E2 or DHT. Since I didn't want tits or to go bald I used Finasteride to block conversion to DHT and Chrysin to block conversion to E2. They worked well, however I did not use levels of testosterone comparable to athletes or bodybuilders use with steroids.

After about 12 months I got the specific doses of all these hormones right in my body with great SHBG levels and suppressed conversion to DHT and E2. Everything was great. I then stayed on that protocol for another 12 months.

Once my IGF-1 levels were off the charts I developed carpal tunnel like syndrome in my right wrist, which is a common issue with growth hormone. I then stopped the injections for about 3 months and started up again.

At the 24 month mark I evaluated my situation. My bloodwork and urine tests confirmed my hormone status was fantastic but I felt EXACTLY the same as before I started on all this. So I gradually reduced the doses of all hormones and over 3 months stopped them altogether. I feel exactly the same today as I did at the peak of my experiment.

I was 42 when I started it and that means I was not a great candidate. Men produce less and less testosterone as they get older. If you're say 55-60 and you got on the protocol you might experience a great improvement in overall feeling of wellbeing, given you might have low test levels.

Personally I gave it a shot and it did nothing for me. It's also very expensive and requires a lot of hassle each day with injections, pills, creams etc. A pain in the ass. Also I hate having bloodwork taken but get used to it if you want to be safe. Also some of the hormone tests are 24 hour urine tests so you have to lug a 5 litre bottle of piss around with you for a full day.

The Thyroid supplementation that I need to support the testosterone levels increased my resting heart rate. I am a runner so my RHR was 50 bpm and increased to 65+ bpm. My running zone was 150-165 bpm and this increased 15-20 bpm because of the T3/T4 which is a real pain. Makes running hard work.

The test increased my blood pressure as well from 105/62 to 125/72.

Lastly Chrysin made me get these weird muscular aches on the odd occasion which felt like a less acute but still very painful cramp. Once I got off it they stopped.

After I cycled off all the stuff all my bloodwork came back to the levels they were before I started. My resting heart rate came back down and blood pressure, etc. So basically it's totally reversible.

Happy to answer any specific questions and sorry to burst anyone's bubble. I've tried it and I think it's a load of shit.
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      03-23-2011, 10:27 PM   #9
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Very cool thanks bro. Awesome summary.
Were you taking it just to see if it would help, or to help your running or other activity? You spent a lot of time and money over 2 years I'm sure. Just curious as to what your motivation was when you started.
By your protocol, someone was very educated in the function of hormones and the endocrine system overall. It is extremely complex the more you add to a program because it does all interact.
Your summary is what I was looking for and I appreciate it.
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      03-23-2011, 10:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchlauCow View Post
My anti-aging recipe:

Plenty of exercise
Plenty of water
Plenty of vegetables
Plenty of topical vitamin A and C
Plenty of sunblock (SPF 30)
and
Plenty of sex
That works for me
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      03-23-2011, 10:38 PM   #11
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I was just curious and after reading a lot of information about anti ageing and general health I thought I'd give it a go, supervised by an endocrinologist.

I used a book by Dr Thierry Hertoghe called "The Hormone handbook" which has a lot of information about the major hormones, what symptoms you may exhibit if you are suffering from a low level, symptoms of overdose and how to supplement.

http://www.imbooks.info/pricelist/listebooks

My advice is to avoid anti-ageing unless you have a specific hormone problem.
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      03-23-2011, 10:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchlauCow View Post
My anti-aging recipe:

Plenty of exercise
Plenty of water
Plenty of vegetables
Plenty of topical vitamin A and C
Plenty of sunblock (SPF 30)
and
Plenty of sex
I agree, good sleep, good exercise and good diet as well as avoiding too much stress. However our bodies gradually produce less and less hormones as we age and even following this advice means you get saggy, slow, brittle and die. that's what anti-ageing research is about.
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      03-23-2011, 11:23 PM   #13
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Nice summary from all above parties. Pman's first sentance summed up what I didn't have the intestinal fortitude to put into print....
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      03-24-2011, 08:32 PM   #14
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You don't need any of that stuff. Only reason for HRT (hormone replacement therapy) is if you have low test.

Eat right foods (see this video, Jack L. is a legend if you don't know)
)
Get 8 hours of sleep
Workout with weights and do cardio


All of these things will naturally boost T and no need to inject yourself with a needle!
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      03-24-2011, 11:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Htown09 View Post
You don't need any of that stuff. Only reason for HRT (hormone replacement therapy) is if you have low test.

Eat right foods (see this video, Jack L. is a legend if you don't know) Get 8 hours of sleep
Workout with weights and do cardio

All of these things will naturally boost T and no need to inject yourself with a needle!
Well actually no, there is a lot of other hormone related issues that might mean someone benefits from hormone supplementation, for example a low Thyroid condition. If your natural level of Thyroid drops below a certain threshold then your metabolism will begin to shut down. There's no way you can maintain an atheletic shape or exercise efficiently with some forms of Thyroid problems.

The hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis is the set of hormone interactions that is most often referenced.

With everything to do with hormones it is a complex situation and there are many and variable interactions.

As for the general thrust of the old bugger in the B&W video and your main assertions, I wholeheartedly agree. The best plan for people lucky enough to not have any hormone problems is to sleep right, rest right, exercise right and eat right.

As for your idea that eating certain types of food and exercise can boost natural free testosterone, I'd say you are right, but the amount you can alter your free testosterone is relatively small. The body has many feedback loops to ensure the hormone levels YOUR body wants are maintained. You'll never give your FTE level more than slight nudge.


A quick google on more info reveals this, do your own research if you want to know more:
Quote:
The problem with most of those ideas is that they assume that if you can somehow affect the mechanisms inside your body that produce testosterone that they can increase production and thus increase the steady state level. That isn't correct.

Testosterone levels are regulated by a closed feedback loop. In men, the hypothalamus monitors testosterone levels. It produces a hormone called GnRH (Gonadotropin releasing hormone) which is sensed by the pituitary, which proportionally releases two hormones called FSH (Follicle stimulation hormone) and LH (Leutinizing hormone). In men, FSH is detected in the testes and causes production of sperm, while LH is also detected in the testes and causes production of testosterone. (In women, GnRH, FSH, and LH have an entirely different function and behave completely differently.)

There is a small amount of testosterone produced by the adrenal glands, but it's unimportant. Even if that amount could be increased, it wouldn't have any effect -- not just small effect, no effect.

That's because of the feedback loop. When, in the opinion of the hypothalamus, the level of testosterone is too high, it reduces the amount of GnRH it produces, which means the pituitary produces less LH, which means the testes produce less testosterone. So if the adrenal glands produce more, the testes produce less, and the total level remains the same.

That's why testosterone supplements don't do what most people think they would. Using a testosterone supplement at a rate of 50% of your natural level doesn't result in a 50% boost. It results in a 0% boost. That's because the hypothalamus cranks back on the GnRH so as to maintain the total at the level it needs to be. The only way testosterone supplements can increase the blood level is if they're used at levels greater than 100% of the blood level you want to increase. That means that the hypothalamus has cranked the natural production rate all the way down to zero.

That's also why losing one testicle doesn't affect your testosterone level if the remaining one is healthy. It doesn't produce as much testosterone as two would for a given level of LH, but the feedback loop compensates by increasing GnRH, and thus LH, so that the level remains where the hypothalamus thinks it should be.

Anything that causes a boost in testosterone level only works for a short time, until the feedback loop detects it and compensates. That's a period of an hour or two, maybe less.
Source: http://ask.metafilter.com/62346/How-...sterone-levels

As for increasing your testosterone levels, I have done this successfully and without a syringe. There are many ways to get exogenous TTT: creams, troches, capsules .. as well as injection.

The topic of exogenous testosterone is a whole other topic, feel free to ask if you have any specific questions.
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      03-26-2011, 06:20 PM   #16
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There is only one proven way for anti-aging.

Caloric Restriction.

In this video, an esthetic surgeon confuses a 51yo man, guessing that he is about 35.



Now at 43, I am on it for 2.5 years now. It is fun to have the body shape of a young man again. All my health indicators improved dramatically. I couldn't recommend it more.
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      03-28-2011, 03:25 PM   #17
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Actually this has not been proven at all except in mice.



Calorie-restriction diet for anti-aging
By Mayo Clinic staff

Definition
A calorie-restriction diet for anti-aging involves eating fewer calories than your body needs to maintain your normal weight — while still getting enough vitamins and other nutrients. Generally, a calorie-restriction diet may call for 20 to 30 percent fewer calories than usual.

Interest in the calorie-restriction diet as an anti-aging tool has grown as researchers have learned that restricting calories can extend the lives of animals. However, the possible role of a calorie-restriction diet for slowing the aging process in humans is still under investigation. Short-term studies have shown that a calorie-restriction diet can have both benefits and risks for humans, and it's unclear whether the diet can extend a person's life.

If you're interested in trying a calorie-restriction diet for anti-aging, consult your doctor and a registered dietitian to make sure you get enough vitamins and other nutrients.

Purpose
Proponents of the calorie-restriction diet claim that restricting calories slows the aging process, reduces the risk of various chronic diseases and leads to a longer life. If you're overweight, a calorie-restriction diet may also help you achieve a healthy weight. But a calorie-restriction diet can have both positive and negative health effects, and researchers haven't determined whether the regimen truly extends a person's life.

Diet details
Research has shown the following health benefits for animals on a calorie-restriction diet for anti-aging:

■Rodents that reduced their calorie consumption by 30 to 60 percent before age 6 months increased their maximum life spans by 30 to 60 percent.
■Rodents that reduced their calorie intake by 44 percent as adults — age 1 — increased their maximum life spans by 10 to 20 percent.
■Rodents that followed a calorie-restriction diet developed fewer chronic diseases associated with aging — such as diabetes, heart disease and cancer — or delayed the development of these diseases.
■A calorie-restriction diet decreased the deterioration of nerves in the brain and increased nerve creation in animals with Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease and stroke.
Some researchers say that a calorie-restriction diet triggers a survival mechanism in animals with short life spans, such as rodents, that allows them to outlive food shortages. However, it's unclear whether people may benefit from a calorie-restriction diet the same way. Some researchers estimate that a long-term calorie restriction diet may only increase a person's life expectancy by 4 to 17 percent.

Researchers haven't identified a precise calorie limit for a calorie-restriction diet. It's even difficult to make general recommendations about calorie thresholds, due to variables such as body composition, genetics, age and daily energy expenditure. Generally, however, a calorie-restriction diet may call for 20 to 30 percent fewer calories than usual. If you're interested in a calorie-restriction diet for anti-aging, talk to your doctor.

Results
Limited research on the calorie-restriction diet for anti-aging suggests that it can lead to positive changes in:

■Blood pressure
■Blood sugar
■Body fat percentage
■Cholesterol level
■Weight
Research also suggests that a calorie-restriction diet can improve memory in older adults. Most of these changes also reduce the risk of chronic diseases, such as heart disease, but it isn't clear whether they'll translate to a longer life span.

Risks
The calorie-restriction diet isn't safe for everyone — particularly older adults and people who are lean. Side effects of the calorie-restriction diet might include:

■Menstrual irregularities
■Hormonal changes
■Reduced bone density
■Loss of muscle mass
If you're following a calorie-restriction diet, you can offset some losses in bone density and muscle mass through regular physical activity, such as walking or jogging, and by making sure you get enough calcium and vitamin D.

Excessive calorie restriction can cause:

■Anemia
■Dizziness
■Depression
■Irritability
■Lethargy
■Swelling in your legs and feet
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      03-28-2011, 06:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
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There is only one proven way for anti-aging.

Caloric Restriction.

In this video, an esthetic surgeon confuses a 51yo man, guessing that he is about 35.

Now at 43, I am on it for 2.5 years now. It is fun to have the body shape of a young man again. All my health indicators improved dramatically. I couldn't recommend it more.
Yah -- but who wants to be 6 ft 130 lbs -- not sexy
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      03-30-2011, 05:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Actually this has not been proven at all except in mice.
Oh don't worry there are a lot more than mice.

The closest animal to man tested long term is the Monkey Rhesus.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/science/10aging.html

Government is funding a large study regarding caloric restriction.

Meet CALERIE

No hard proof, but very good news. As CR studies go, they are all pointing in the same direction.
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      03-30-2011, 05:12 PM   #20
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      03-31-2011, 08:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Oh don't worry there are a lot more than mice.

The closest animal to man tested long term is the Monkey Rhesus.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/10/science/10aging.html

Government is funding a large study regarding caloric restriction.

Meet CALERIE

No hard proof, but very good news. As CR studies go, they are all pointing in the same direction.

Uhhhhhh maybe the Rhesus monkey is close to some guys but not me...lol.

True definitive studies in humans will not be possible. The ethical hurdles alone would prevent a well-defined study from being done.
Certainly anecdotal evidence suggests that decreasing caloric intake does seem to prolong lifespan, but what is the quality of that life-span? And you really have to look at the design of the study: what is their hypothesis? Did they "adjust" the data to fit a conclusion? And you cannot simply apply one conclusion from one species and apply it broadly to all others.
As noted above, how fun is it really to be 6' 130lbs? No thanks!
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      03-31-2011, 08:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newdadkel View Post
Uhhhhhh maybe the Rhesus monkey is close to some guys but not me...lol.

True definitive studies in humans will not be possible. The ethical hurdles alone would prevent a well-defined study from being done.
Certainly anecdotal evidence suggests that decreasing caloric intake does seem to prolong lifespan, but what is the quality of that life-span? And you really have to look at the design of the study: what is their hypothesis? Did they "adjust" the data to fit a conclusion? And you cannot simply apply one conclusion from one species and apply it broadly to all others.
As noted above, how fun is it really to be 6' 130lbs? No thanks!
It is like feeling like a teenager and it feels definitely great.

True definitive studies are no more needed than any other alternative anti-aging method that you can imagine. BTW, world's oldest man is doing kind of CR.
http://www.howtolivealongerlife.com/...13-shares.html
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