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      01-13-2011, 08:21 AM   #23
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Car: 08 E92 M3 DCT
Track/Course: Road Atlanta
Best Lap Time: 1:49
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Car: 08 E92 M3 DCT
Track/Course: VIR, Full Course
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      03-14-2011, 11:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd15 View Post
Not trying to defend myself, a professional driver drove Z06 on R-compund did high-40's at Infineon at the same day. So, I just don't see the mid-40's thing coming in an M3. I just got my M3 for two weeks and I know I have a lot to learn. Why not just get back to the topic? If I were born to know how to drive, I would not even post this thread here.
NOBODY has done mid-40's in a street e90/e92m3 at Infineon.
No one has gotten out of the 50's

Miata's do well there because it's a twisty track and they weigh under 2000 lbs. and you CANNOT compare Miata Lap Times to a 3800 lbs car at ANY track no matter how much hp it has..
Weight transition and weight transfer is EVERYTHING on a road course.
I've driven everything from a heavy OE R35 GT-R to an 1000 lbs F1 car on many Road Courses ..... and you cannot replace weight and center of gravity with horsepower.

I have a 160hp Race Car with a 1000cc Motorcycle engine that does 1:25 at Laguna Seca vs. my 420hp M3's 1:45.
Thats a cool 20 seconds faster in a car with almost 300 hp LESS.

1:58 is VERY respectable for a 3800 lbs (with Fuel and Driver) e9xm3 at Infineon.

And your bouncy feeling is indicative of your suspension being too low in the rear ... or .... high spring rates (and I dont think the KWV3 has high spring rates)

It was nice to meet you at the track -- sorry I was short, but we were leaving after testing some tires.

Hope to see you at the track soon -- Buttonwillow was a blast -- we managed to be the fastest NA BMW there with a 1:58 on our e36m3 (3100lbs 300whp)
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      03-14-2011, 11:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
NOBODY has done mid-40's in a street e90/e92m3 at Infineon.
No one has gotten out of the 50's

Miata's do well there because it's a twisty track and they weigh under 2000 lbs. and you CANNOT compare Miata Lap Times to a 3800 lbs car at ANY track no matter how much hp it has..
Weight transition and weight transfer is EVERYTHING on a road course.
I've driven everything from a heavy OE R35 GT-R to an 1000 lbs F1 car on many Road Courses ..... and you cannot replace weight and center of gravity with horsepower.

I have a 160hp Race Car with a 1000cc Motorcycle engine that does 1:25 at Laguna Seca vs. my 420hp M3's 1:45.
Thats a cool 20 seconds faster in a car with almost 300 hp LESS.

1:58 is VERY respectable for a 3800 lbs (with Fuel and Driver) e9xm3 at Infineon.

And your bouncy feeling is indicative of your suspension being too low in the rear ... or .... high spring rates (and I dont think the KWV3 has high spring rates)

It was nice to meet you at the track -- sorry I was short, but we were leaving after testing some tires.

Hope to see you at the track soon -- Buttonwillow was a blast -- we managed to be the fastest NA BMW there with a 1:58 on our e36m3 (3100lbs 300whp)
It was nice meeting you bro!
1:58 on E36, that's flying on a 3100lbs car with 300 whp!
The best I did was 2:03 last weekend. I think the M3 with the mods I have now should be capable of high 1:50's. Hopefully I can get there in later this year.

I will rise the rear's a bit, then re-do the alignment and corner balance. (my car is pushing to the left when accelerating, don't know if this has something to do with bouncy )
Thanks for everyone's input, I'll try them out and report back later.
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      03-15-2011, 08:05 PM   #26
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A pull to the left on accel could be a toe problem or you may have the car "crabbing" down the track, might want to get it on an alignment rack or do a string alignment to see if you've got a thrust angle issue.

My last post on the thread which definitely is in danger of derailing if I don't shut up:

Mastek - You sound like you spend some time at the track, but you're off on a couple facts.

Spec Miatas do not weigh under 2000lbs. They weigh, at minimum, 2285 with driver. I've been on track in a Spec Miata with T2 E46 M3's and know what they're capable of (4+ seconds a lap faster even at very tight, technical tracks). A modified E92 should be much quicker than a T2 M3. The T2 lap record there is 1:52.5 and that was back in 2006 with a car that is no longer competitive. Maybe nobody has tried yet, but a 1:47 doesn't seem out of the question to me knowing what other cars can run at that track (T1 equivalent). E92 M3 3800lbs? Maybe completely stock with driver and a full tank. My heavier E90 weighed 3666 without driver with a full tank of fuel, completely stock. A modified car should be well below that. A member here is at 3500lbs with driver after a few mods and a rear seat delete. I'm not saying that power is everything, but ask any racer how to go faster around a racetrack and horsepower (power/weight, really) is the first place to look. It doesn't need tuning, it usually doesn't add weight, it doesn't cause you to go slower in one corner than another, you just shorten the time spent between corners. Horsepower isn't everything, but it's a huge, huge part of any car's lap time.
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      03-16-2011, 02:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
My last post on the thread which definitely is in danger of derailing if I don't shut up:

Mastek - You sound like you spend some time at the track, but you're off on a couple facts.

Spec Miatas do not weigh under 2000lbs. They weigh, at minimum, 2285 with driver. I've been on track in a Spec Miata with T2 E46 M3's and know what they're capable of (4+ seconds a lap faster even at very tight, technical tracks). A modified E92 should be much quicker than a T2 M3. The T2 lap record there is 1:52.5 and that was back in 2006 with a car that is no longer competitive. Maybe nobody has tried yet, but a 1:47 doesn't seem out of the question to me knowing what other cars can run at that track (T1 equivalent). E92 M3 3800lbs? Maybe completely stock with driver and a full tank. My heavier E90 weighed 3666 without driver with a full tank of fuel, completely stock. A modified car should be well below that. A member here is at 3500lbs with driver after a few mods and a rear seat delete. I'm not saying that power is everything, but ask any racer how to go faster around a racetrack and horsepower (power/weight, really) is the first place to look. It doesn't need tuning, it usually doesn't add weight, it doesn't cause you to go slower in one corner than another, you just shorten the time spent between corners. Horsepower isn't everything, but it's a huge, huge part of any car's lap time.
Power to weight is one thing - carrying speed through corners can only be accomplished through LESS weight.
So a lighter car with the same power-to-weight ratio will get a better lap time then a heavier car with the same power-to-weight ratio.
Spec Miatas can be 2000 or 2300 lbs. It doesn't matter to my point... you can't compare this to a 3800 lbs car

A susepnsion modded e46m3 is faster around most any road course then a same suspension modded e9xm3 (except a 12 mile variable like the Nordschleife)

My OE e90m3 was at 3630 without fuel and driver = so that's OVER 3800 lbs. STOCK
I modded my car with what's in the sig down to 3450 and I can tell you that 200 lbs in this car, with this kind of inertia, on these road courses, makes only 1-2 seconds difference in lap times.
So I will repeat, NO ONE has done under 1.50 with an OE e9xm3 at Infineon/Sears Point with the full carousel. And no one will (unless they strip the car to a race car).

Since you have one - and you have w2w experience - what kind of lap times have you acieved with yur e9xm3?
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      03-16-2011, 03:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
Power to weight is one thing - carrying speed through corners can only be accomplished through LESS weight.
So a lighter car with the same power-to-weight ratio will get a better lap time then a heavier car with the same power-to-weight ratio.
This is only true up to a certain speed. If a track has long straights it might all be negated. Case in point, the Lotus Elise. On long straights it can not over come its aero inefficiency and will set higher times on certain tracks against its comparable pwr/wght competitive set.
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      03-16-2011, 11:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
A susepnsion modded e46m3 is faster around most any road course then a same suspension modded e9xm3 (except a 12 mile variable like the Nordschleife)

My OE e90m3 was at 3630 without fuel and driver = so that's OVER 3800 lbs. STOCK
I modded my car with what's in the sig down to 3450 and I can tell you that 200 lbs in this car, with this kind of inertia, on these road courses, makes only 1-2 seconds difference in lap times.
So I will repeat, NO ONE has done under 1.50 with an OE e9xm3 at Infineon/Sears Point with the full carousel. And no one will (unless they strip the car to a race car).
Yes weight is the enemy, but the e90 makes up for it in the power and grip department. You spend a lot of time in the engine's sweet spot at infineon (with the 6 sp manual anyways) which allows for very strong corner exit speeds. 1:50 is definately doable in an M3 with only suspension mods and hopefully I'll put my money where my mouth is this season
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      03-17-2011, 02:33 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
Yes weight is the enemy, but the e90 makes up for it in the power and grip department. You spend a lot of time in the engine's sweet spot at infineon (with the 6 sp manual anyways) which allows for very strong corner exit speeds. 1:50 is definately doable in an M3 with only suspension mods and hopefully I'll put my money where my mouth is this season
Have u been there w ur e90m3?
What was ur best lap time?
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      03-17-2011, 01:21 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek

Have u been there w ur e90m3?
What was ur best lap time?
1:53 on my new setup. There's definately a 1:50 in the car with fresh tires and more suspension tuning. I'm headed back this weekend but its going to be cold and rainy.
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      03-17-2011, 10:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
1:53 on my new setup. There's definately a 1:50 in the car with fresh tires and more suspension tuning. I'm headed back this weekend but its going to be cold and rainy.
Thats incredibly fast -- we have a full GTS4 Championship Car thats 3100 lbs 300rwhp and we did a 1:51.6 ... so you are the FASTEST e9xm3 lap time i have seen there -- -- You are talking about Full Carousel Yes?

And what suspension are you running AST C/O?
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      04-01-2011, 01:40 AM   #33
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My dad has an E90 on order (Production date 17th week).

We currently have a 2005 Z4 3.0 smg that I run in NASA TTD. There isn't much going on in the Z4 threads for tracking so I hope you guys don't mind me posting up some times I've run in our present car. When we start to track the E90 it I will post up those times.

Hope you guys don't mind me posting my time. It's just cool to see where my times were at vs. some of you.

Car: 05 Z4 3.0
Track/Course: Buttonwillow (1ccw) 6-10-11
Best Lap Time:2:13.26
Brake Pads: Hawk
Tires (Size & Model): Hoosiers 245/35x18 on 9.5" all around
Suspension: Camber Plates
Other Mods: Ex-Koni Challenge Driver
http://www.nasa-tt.com/Socal_Regiona..._articleid/185

Car: 05 Z4 3.0
Track/Course: Infineon
Best Lap Time: 1:59.476 (I might have done quicker, but can't access a couple of recent events I did)
Brake Pads: Hawk
Tires (Size & Model): Hoosiers 245/35x18 on 9.5" all around
Suspension: Camber Plates, strut bar, BBS wheels/Fikse wheels.
Other Mods: Ex-Koni Challenge Driver
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      04-01-2011, 01:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekSelmanRacing View Post
My dad has an E90 on order (Production date 17th week).

We currently have a 2005 Z4 3.0 smg that I run in NASA TTD. There isn't much going on in the Z4 threads for tracking so I hope you guys don't mind me posting up some times I've run in our present car. When we start to track the E90 it I will post up those times.

Hope you guys don't mind me posting my time. It's just cool to see where my times were at vs. some of you.

Car: 05 Z4 3.0
Track/Course: Buttonwillow (1ccw) 6-10-11
Best Lap Time:2:13.26
Brake Pads: Hawk
Tires (Size & Model): Hoosiers 245/35x18 on 9.5" all around
Suspension: Camber Plates
Other Mods: Ex-Koni Challenge Driver
http://www.nasa-tt.com/Socal_Regiona..._articleid/185

Car: 05 Z4 3.0
Track/Course: Infineon
Best Lap Time: 1:59.476 (I might have done quicker, but can't access a couple of recent events I did)
Brake Pads: Hawk
Tires (Size & Model): Hoosiers 245/35x18 on 9.5" all around
Suspension: Camber Plates, strut bar, BBS wheels/Fikse wheels.
Other Mods: Ex-Koni Challenge Driver
Very nice = Its rare that you see any BW 1ccw times
I did a 2:12 BW 1cw (in the e90)
I like Config #1cw at Buttonwillow best -- I think it has the best rythym
But Ive never done #1ccw (now curious)

For the most part we'd like to keep this e90/e92 -- but i posted my e46 times for reference too -- so its all good.

Theres a member "RickyBobby" that claims a 1:53 at Infineon with the e90 (hard to believe).
my best was around a 1:58

Anyways, its good to see where the e90/e92m3 stacks up against other M cars
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      04-01-2011, 10:52 PM   #35
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A 1:53 sounds pretty achievable. If I can do a 1:59 in a Z4 I don't know why I couldn't do a 1:53 in an E90. I guess I'll just have to wait until we get it!
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      04-01-2011, 11:08 PM   #36
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Track/Course: TWS CCW
Best Lap Time: 1:57.4
Brake Pads: DTC70
Tires (Size & Model): NT01 275 Square
Suspension: Stock
Other Mods: Track insurance, Britax Baby Seat, 3/4 tank ( could be faster with a harness)

Track/Course: TWS CW
Best Lap Time: 1:56.2
Brake Pads: DTC70
Tires (Size & Model): NT01 275 Square
Suspension: Stock
Other Mods: Britax Baby Seat, 1/2 tank
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      04-01-2011, 11:18 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
Track/Course: TWS CCW
Best Lap Time: 1:57.4
Brake Pads: DTC70
Tires (Size & Model): NT01 275 Square
Suspension: Stock
Other Mods: Track insurance, Britax Baby Seat, 3/4 tank ( could be faster with a harness)

Track/Course: TWS CW
Best Lap Time: 1:56.2
Brake Pads: DTC70
Tires (Size & Model): NT01 275 Square
Suspension: Stock
Other Mods: Britax Baby Seat, 1/2 tank
That's an excellent time at TWS!
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      04-01-2011, 11:19 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekSelmanRacing View Post
A 1:53 sounds pretty achievable. If I can do a 1:59 in a Z4 I don't know why I couldn't do a 1:53 in an E90. I guess I'll just have to wait until we get it!
Because your in for a giant surprise if you think the e90/e92m3 is a faster track car then the e36/e46 or z4
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      04-02-2011, 08:16 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
That's an excellent time at TWS!
It oughta be, with 15K miles on that track I don't have any excuses. Still not as fast as my riced out E46 (it was in the 54s and I was running out of talent before the car was).
But instead of taking out the back seat, pass through, and trunk lining in E46, I just leave the baby seat in the E90....much more of a DD =)

Assuming your car is dialed in, it should be in the low 50s at stock weight, and 40s with a 500lb diet and hoosiers.
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      04-02-2011, 11:29 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
It oughta be, with 15K miles on that track I don't have any excuses. Still not as fast as my riced out E46 (it was in the 54s and I was running out of talent before the car was).
But instead of taking out the back seat, pass through, and trunk lining in E46, I just leave the baby seat in the E90....much more of a DD =)

Assuming your car is dialed in, it should be in the low 50s at stock weight, and 40s with a 500lb diet and hoosiers.
Haven't been there for a while but I will go back again in the next few months.

I know your time is fast because the SCCA track record of a T1 race car is 1:49.96. You need to give me some instructions
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      04-04-2011, 11:50 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
Because your in for a giant surprise if you think the e90/e92m3 is a faster track car then the e36/e46 or z4
I did a 1:59 in a Z4 3.0 (225 at the fly). If I can't get an E90 into the 1:50's I'm doing something very very wrong.
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      04-04-2011, 05:50 PM   #42
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Track/Course: Mid-Ohio
Best Lap Time: 1:44
Brakes: EBC Green F/R, Performance Friction rotors (front) Euro 2-piece rear
SS Lines, ATE Supper Blue
Tires (Size & Model): BFG R1 255/40/18 front, 255/40/18 rear
Suspension: TC Kline D/A Coilover Kit, RD Sway bars, Rogue ARCA,
Camber: (F)1.5 (R) 2.75
Other Mods: Dinan intake & Stg 2 software,

Same car at Putnam Park 1:17
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      04-04-2011, 10:46 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
Theres a member "RickyBobby" that claims a 1:53 at Infineon with the e90 (hard to believe).
my best was around a 1:58
Since I'm being called out here by mastek, here's a link and data log for my (hard to believe) claim.


Track/Course: Infineon
Best Lap Time: 1:53
Brake Pads: Rabyestos ST
Tires (Size & Model): NT01 275's F&R
Suspension: AST 4200
Other Mods: Recaro baby seat (baby removed while lapping)

Results found here: http://www.nasaproracing.com/results...,runid,1783990
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      04-05-2011, 12:54 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyBobby View Post
Since I'm being called out here by mastek, here's a link and data log for my (hard to believe) claim.


Track/Course: Infineon
Best Lap Time: 1:53
Brake Pads: Rabyestos ST
Tires (Size & Model): NT01 275's F&R
Suspension: AST 4200
Other Mods: Recaro baby seat (baby removed while lapping)

Results found here: http://www.nasaproracing.com/results...,runid,1783990
Do you have a racing line over the track diagram of that lap?
I dont think NASA runs anything but full carousel - so i assume thats what it was right?

If all this is correct - then coilovers on this car are worth alot over the EDC shocks.
I ran a 1:58 (only 2 sessions) with a 3450lbs + Fuel + Driver = 3750lbs - R1 265/285 - AP BBK w Mintex FR3 and FR4 (your Raybestos are better) - 4.10 FDR w 2 Clutch Ramps - and the GC Coil Kit using 440/600 springs on OE EDC shocks (which i believe are the weakest link in this setup).
I had maybe a 1:56 in it since this was my 1st time there.
Your 1:53 puts a 3 second theoretical "shock" advantage over the EDC shocks (which makes sense)

Congrats on a great lap at 1:53
Now lets see those lines on that track diagram, ya
And i assume the ASTs are double adjustable?

I suppose with ur AST c/o kit and those better pads (with the rest of my mods and weight loss) - i can imagine a 1:51
But not the sub 1:50 you claimed possible with this car earlier (unless you drop to 3300 lbs wet and a pro driver)

Last edited by mastek; 04-05-2011 at 01:01 AM.
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