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      03-14-2011, 09:56 PM   #45
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u should be hitting redline a few times a week at least
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      03-14-2011, 11:20 PM   #46
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Every chance I get.

The rev limiter's job it to prevent a meltdown so bouncing off the limiter is fine.
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      03-15-2011, 06:07 AM   #47
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I use launch control at least 25 times per day and I treat the gas pedal as an on/off switch...either floored or on the brake. Nothing in between. Just like most teenagers drive. I love the sound of the engine bouncing off the rev-limiter, and I love to hold it there while I cruise, 'cuz that's the way I roll. Engine cold...no problem. At redline, it'll heat up quickly.

Now that everyone is shocked and appalled...I have to say that driving the car to redline all the time as people say "that's the way it was designed" will cause such an increase in engine wear with the internals running at 8400 rpm, as say 5000 rpm. Most race cars barely make through a single race before the engine has to be rebuilt. For us lucky enough (and wealthy enough or our parents wealthy enough) to be the original owners of our cars, we can treat our cars like crap and redline them at every opportunity and have no problems, for we will sell or trade the cars way before the engine is toast. And at that, I conclude: "I pity the fools that buy our used cars". I show restraint as there really is no need to redline the car to extract power from the M3. Heck, the M3 is faster than 95% of all the cars out there, even if you shifted at 4000 rpms. I track my M3 and I never go to redline...no need to go the last 500 rpms. Heck for the "racers", you can Dinan software that moves the limiter to 8600. Why not get that? You can probably find software to move it to 10k rpms. Given the chance, I'm guessing (hoping) most would say 10K is too much. So why not 8K instead of 8400? On the early E46 M3's, they were plagued with blown engines with an 8K redline. Turns out bad rod bearings were the cause but then curiously when the same engine at the same time were installed in the M Roadsters and M Coupes, BMW lowered the rev-limiter to 7600 rpms, the engines didn't blow...same bad rod bearings. Obviously had something to do with increased engine (rod bearings) wear at 8K.

Just my views of redlines in cars. Lastly, my home stereo has enough power to generate close to 120 dB of Justin Bieber. Just because it can do it doesn't mean I play Justin Bieber at 120 dB until my ears bleed. Actually I wouldn't play Justin Bieber at any volume...he he.
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      03-15-2011, 06:17 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIO View Post
I use launch control at least 25 times per day and I treat the gas pedal as an on/off switch...either floored or on the brake. Nothing in between. Just like most teenagers drive. I love the sound of the engine bouncing off the rev-limiter, and I love to hold it there while I cruise, 'cuz that's the way I roll. Engine cold...no problem. At redline, it'll heat up quickly.

Now that everyone is shocked and appalled...I have to say that driving the car to redline all the time as people say "that's the way it was designed" will cause such an increase in engine wear with the internals running at 8400 rpm, as say 5000 rpm. Most race cars barely make through a single race before the engine has to be rebuilt. For us lucky enough (and wealthy enough or our parents wealthy enough) to be the original owners of our cars, we can treat our cars like crap and redline them at every opportunity and have no problems, for we will sell or trade the cars way before the engine is toast. And at that, I conclude: "I pity the fools that buy our used cars". I show restraint as there really is no need to redline the car to extract power from the M3. Heck, the M3 is faster than 95% of all the cars out there, even if you shifted at 4000 rpms. I track my M3 and I never go to redline...no need to go the last 500 rpms. Heck for the "racers", you can Dinan software that moves the limiter to 8600. Why not get that? You can probably find software to move it to 10k rpms. Given the chance, I'm guessing (hoping) most would say 10K is too much. So why not 8K instead of 8400? On the early E46 M3's, they were plagued with blown engines with an 8K redline. Turns out bad rod bearings were the cause but then curiously when the same engine at the same time were installed in the M Roadsters and M Coupes, BMW lowered the rev-limiter to 7600 rpms, the engines didn't blow...same bad rod bearings. Obviously had something to do with increased engine (rod bearings) wear at 8K.

Just my views of redlines in cars. Lastly, my home stereo has enough power to generate close to 120 dB of Justin Bieber. Just because it can do it doesn't mean I play Justin Bieber at 120 dB until my ears bleed. Actually I wouldn't play Justin Bieber at any volume...he he.

There is a big difference between reving out the engine through the rpm band in the first few gears and running 500 laps in 4th gear at 8200 rpms.
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      03-15-2011, 06:46 AM   #49
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I think most people here are full of crap... Mostly because of the risk of a ticket. If you redline in 1st to 2nd and then again shifting to 3rd, you're speeding. And it's not like this car can blend in with others exactly. I've been lucky to not get any tickets here in the US yet, because I've definitely been speeding a few times, but how much fun can you have when you lose your license for going 100 in a 60 zone? Maybe I'm just paranoid because I live in Virginia...

Unless it's exclusively a track car, I just don't see how you'd be redlining it all the time. I agree with JIO, while it definitely is made for it and it can do it often, that doesn't mean that you should do it all day every day.

But then again, if you have the money to blow, then by all means, it's your money.

I'm glad I got to sew my oats in Germany before I brought it here, although I really do miss cruising at 165 on the Autobahn
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      03-15-2011, 07:11 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
I think most people here are full of crap... Mostly because of the risk of a ticket. If you redline in 1st to 2nd and then again shifting to 3rd, you're speeding. And it's not like this car can blend in with others exactly. I've been lucky to not get any tickets here in the US yet, because I've definitely been speeding a few times, but how much fun can you have when you lose your license for going 100 in a 60 zone? Maybe I'm just paranoid because I live in Virginia...

Unless it's exclusively a track car, I just don't see how you'd be redlining it all the time. I agree with JIO, while it definitely is made for it and it can do it often, that doesn't mean that you should do it all day every day.

But then again, if you have the money to blow, then by all means, it's your money.

I'm glad I got to sew my oats in Germany before I brought it here, although I really do miss cruising at 165 on the Autobahn
A lot of people are very familiar with cop "hot-spots" in their local cities. And redlining on the freeway is not very hard when you drop a gear to pass, you could do that several times a commute.
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      03-15-2011, 07:13 AM   #51
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Ok...so I DONT take mine to redline. I usually dont go past 7,000. (let the flaming begin) but I dont see how you can rev it past 8,000 and not be incurring some additional wear on the engine.

Maybe an enginer can explain if I'm wrong or not but I typically stay below 6,000 with occasional shifts to 7 or 7,500. I still end up at full throttle frequently but just dont wind it all the way up.

If I knew for certain the high revs really didnt cause damage or increase the likelyhood of repairs I'd probably change my ways but I feel like I am increasing the life of this engine and drivetrain.
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      03-15-2011, 07:25 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmflukeiii View Post
A lot of people are very familiar with cop "hot-spots" in their local cities. And redlining on the freeway is not very hard when you drop a gear to pass, you could do that several times a commute.
Oh I'm sure, I'm just giving my opinion. Everyone on the internet is a tough guy, and saying you redline it all day every day and drive it like you stole it all the time is just stupid.

I didn't say I never redline it either, I do but nowhere near as often as everyone here seems to think is right. I guess I'm not driving my car right, according to some people here, because I should be balls to the wall every day.

Cop "hot-spots" in my area are basically everywhere except on/off ramps to I-95, which even there I've seen them sitting waiting (and have even seen people pulled over for going to fast off the exit). In Germany it wasn't a big deal. You get flashed, get the letter/picture in the mail a month or so later, pay it and move on. No insurance issues and my insurance never went up. I'd prefer to be more careful here in the States and not raise my rates/get points on my license/lose my license just for a quick 10 second thrill in my car. Not to mention I don't trust most other people on the road and I am very careful monitoring other drivers. It's easier to react in my opinion.

Not trying to be a dick, I just think a lot of people here are exaggerating a bit.
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      03-15-2011, 07:30 AM   #53
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Ha I'm sure too, sorry wasn't trying to be a dick either, just its possible. I think certain states are a little more relaxed; sounds like Virginia is a rough place to drive a fast car.
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      03-15-2011, 07:44 AM   #54
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Virginia is notoriously hardcore with moving violations. No radar detectors and they really bust balls if you have out of state plates. Also isn't there mandatory jail time for doing x mph over the posted speed limit?
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      03-15-2011, 08:06 AM   #55
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Virginia is notoriously hardcore with moving violations. No radar detectors and they really bust balls if you have out of state plates. Also isn't there mandatory jail time for doing x mph over the posted speed limit?
Wow, I'd drive like a pussy if that was the penalty for speeding....
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      03-15-2011, 08:10 AM   #56
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I don't know anything about jail time, but my dad used to be a city cop for Philly way back when. He told me when I registered the car here to do everything I could to get Veteran plates and it might help me. Since I have been to OIF a couple of times, I showed the DMV in VA my proof and they gave me OIF Veteran plates for Virginia.

Hopefully that will encourage them to not pull me over if I'm going 5-10 mph over, but I've also heard that the State Troopers couldn't care less, and they will jack me no problems.

Oh well
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      03-15-2011, 08:16 AM   #57
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In the winter, not so much as I have the winter treads on.

Pilot Sports are going back on this weekend. Then I will reline it everyday.
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      03-15-2011, 08:18 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asw19 View Post
Ok...so I DONT take mine to redline. I usually dont go past 7,000. (let the flaming begin) but I dont see how you can rev it past 8,000 and not be incurring some additional wear on the engine.

Maybe an engineer can explain if I'm wrong or not but I typically stay below 6,000 with occasional shifts to 7 or 7,500. I still end up at full throttle frequently but just dont wind it all the way up.

If I knew for certain the high revs really didnt cause damage or increase the likelyhood of repairs I'd probably change my ways but I feel like I am increasing the life of this engine and drivetrain.
You're kidding, right? If you don't use the car, then why did you buy it?
By the way, It'll last a lot longer if you don't drive it at all. You'll save on maintenance, also.

I'm an engineer and I rev the piss out of my engine. It was engineered to rev past 8000 rpm. This forum is full of retards.
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      03-15-2011, 08:28 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
This forum is full of retards.
And what does that say about you, Mr. Engineer?
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      03-15-2011, 08:34 AM   #60
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I think the bottom line is if you abuse your car you are going to have issues with it. If you let it warm up, do proper maintenance and generally don’t treat it like an idiot (which seems to be a problem on here) your car will be fine. The engine can redline whenever, and however you want if you follow those basic principals.
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      03-15-2011, 09:27 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by muwarrior07 View Post
I think the bottom line is if you abuse your car you are going to have issues with it. If you let it warm up, do proper maintenance and generally donít treat it like an idiot (which seems to be a problem on here) your car will be fine. The engine can redline whenever, and however you want if you follow those basic principals.
+1

If you're "driving like you stole it" (never understood how it is done), then I'd say change oil more frequently, including the diff and tranny.
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      03-15-2011, 09:27 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIO View Post
Now that everyone is shocked and appalled...I have to say that driving the car to redline all the time as people say "that's the way it was designed" will cause such an increase in engine wear with the internals running at 8400 rpm, as say 5000 rpm.
Well, I can't speak for others, but I never drive the car around at a constant speed at high RPM, or at least not for more than a few moments just to hear the engine note. Cruising at 8400RPM obviously makes no sense since there is no benefit vs. cruising at low RPM instead. So, when people "it is designed that way" they are talking about accelerating - or at they should be if they understand how a car works. The point of using all of the powerband is to extract the best acceleration from the car.

Also, surely the important part as far as wear is average RPM over the life of the engine. After all, the wear is probably going to be roughly proportionate to how much internal friction occurs over the life of the engine, i.e. how much heat is generated, which itself is proportionate to the speed of the moving parts. Even if we assume it is far from linear (wear vs. engine speed), time spent at that speed is still going to be a huge factor. So, for each high RPM shift that happens in our cars, how much time is spent cruising at a constant speed at 2000 RPM? The answer is a lot. I don't know the exact number of course, but if you figure I am at redline for a total of less than three seconds on my morning commute, but am at 2000 RPM for a total of 25 minutes, well you do the math. The average RPM is still very low, and guess what? If I instead made those high RPM shifts at 7000RPM I didn't really change the average RPM much. Another thing, even if you figure that, just for example, the avereage S65 only has 100 hours - or heck maybe its only 50 hours - of life at 8400RPM, it is going to take a long, long time to amass that amount if you are not cruising around at high RPM needlessly.

Back of napkin, off the cuff math, yes. But I would be very surprised if the exact nature of the "wear and tear equation" is far off from how I roughed it out above.

Quote:
I show restraint as there really is no need to redline the car to extract power from the M3.
Max power is at 8300RPM so if you want 414hp, then, yes, you really do need to (effectively) redline it.

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Heck, the M3 is faster than 95% of all the cars out there, even if you shifted at 4000 rpms.
That's a stetch, IMHO. I don't have a dyno readout handy - but I'd guess its probably 230hp@4000RPM off the top of my head. Most cars have 200hp or less, sure, but I really doubt it is 95%. And even if it is, so what? If you only want that much power, then a 328i is perfect for you, and it probably even makes max power a couple thousand RPM below redline (though it still may not accelerate at the highest rate unless you hit redline).

Quote:
I track my M3 and I never go to redline...no need to go the last 500 rpms.
No need, sure, but if you were in a race or time trial then guy that shifts at redline is going to beat you (assuming he is reasonable driver not grossly overshooting the braking zones and turn in points, etc.)

Quote:
Heck for the "racers", you can Dinan software that moves the limiter to 8600. Why not get that?
I could just as easily ask you why stop at 8000RPM? That's pretty arbitrary. How much wear and tear are you really saving?

Quote:
You can probably find software to move it to 10k rpms. Given the chance, I'm guessing (hoping) most would say 10K is too much. So why not 8K instead of 8400?
The engine will go nuclear at about 9k from what I'ver read here, so yes, 10000RPM is way too much. Also, the engine is designed specifically with the redline right around when the power would start to fall off. So, yeah, there's no really good reason to make it go that high anyway. Some software tuning will allow it to keep making power at a little higher RPM but 10k RPM would take some head, valvetrain and induction work (assuming the block and bottom end would hold together, which as I say, they would most likely will not).

Quote:
Just my views of redlines in cars. Lastly, my home stereo has enough power to generate close to 120 dB of Justin Bieber. Just because it can do it doesn't mean I play Justin Bieber at 120 dB until my ears bleed. Actually I wouldn't play Justin Bieber at any volume...he he.
And my car can do about 160mph or so. I never go that fast, but I do accelerate as quickly as I can to a reasonable speed. Do you play all of your music out of just one speaker? I bet you don't, even though you'd still be able to hear it just fine from that one speaker.
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      03-15-2011, 09:36 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
And what does that say about you, Mr. Engineer?
I don't spend 23 hours a day at redline. I hardly every use the full rpm range of the engine (maybe a couple of times a week). Really, the only time it gets worked out is at the track where I bounce it off the rev limiter at some points.

My point is not that you have to rev the car constantly, but that it is not an issue to rev it. More importantly, you are not taking better care of your car by avoiding high rpm.

There are literally thousands of posts on this forum that support my retard statement.
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      03-15-2011, 09:47 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Templar View Post
I think most people here are full of crap... Mostly because of the risk of a ticket. If you redline in 1st to 2nd and then again shifting to 3rd, you're speeding. And it's not like this car can blend in with others exactly.
It's true you are speeding by doing what you describe above, but then the speed of traffic on freeways around here is typically 85mph, so hitting redline in second coming onto a freeway just about gets me there.

Speaking of entrance ramps I frequently use both these and exit ramps to "get my kicks" so to speak as they offer relatively good opportunities do have fun with low risk of being caught speeding. As you probably know, it is very fun to round cloverleaves at high speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asw19 View Post
Ok...so I DONT take mine to redline. I usually dont go past 7,000. (let the flaming begin) but I dont see how you can rev it past 8,000 and not be incurring some additional wear on the engine.
I am not going to flame you - that's your perogative. However, I would pose these questions: Why stop at 7000 RPM vs. 6900 RPM or 7100 RPM? What guide did you use in finding your favorite max RPM?
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      03-15-2011, 10:00 AM   #65
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I said I red line mine almost daily on the onramp to a hwy but this morning I realized that I lied..I shift when the shift-lights turn red which is still before 8400. On few occasions I would actually watch the RPM till it hit 8400 which I found to be easier done on D setting pressing on the kick-down button..the car will upshift right on the mark rather than hitting the limmiter.
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      03-15-2011, 10:31 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
There are literally thousands of posts on this forum that support my retard statement.


Joe, I have to ask - are you this grumpy in real life too?
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