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      02-23-2011, 02:07 AM   #1
DLSJ5
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Rod Bearing Failure...

I have been reluctant to post about this earlier as I wanted to give Gintani ample time to look at the engine to try and determine what happened before I posted. We have an idea what caused it but currently the motor has not been broken down to do a full inspection. Given the current drama / speculation on the forums, I felt, along with Gintani, that we should post now and let everyone know that a failure did occur on my car, and then follow up later when we have more solid detailed information. As of now I know of no other Gintani car that has had a failure, but mine.

The engine had been making a slight ticking noise on the passenger side wheel well for about a month before the failure, it sounded like an exhaust leak, but it is difficult to pinpoint noises on this engine. It appeared to have been a bad rod bearing that was causing the noise. Eventually the bearing failed, the rod seized onto the crank shaft, broke and one half came out the side of the block. That is all I currently know for certain, when Gintani tears the motor down they can investigate further to try and pinpoint exactly what it was, then post pictures, and a more accurate detailed analysis. It appears though that the Active Autowerke car that failed, is very similar in nature to this failure.

A few things to point out -

1. I've been running 9psi for over 10K miles on the motor, currently no other kit runs this much boost.
2. When I dynoed the car, and removed the air filter, it hit 11psi, and you can see on the dyno a huge dip up top, which could be detonation.
3. The seals on my 1st blower blew out while doing some spirited driving, eventually the car ran out of oil, this could have damaged the bearing.
4. Other 2008 motors have been torn down and found to have wear on the rod bearings that could have eventually failed as mine did.

The current status is that a long block is on it's way, Gintani is covering the cost of the motor and all labor, which is above and beyond what most companies would do. I am extremely thankful to them for doing so, they have always taken care of me. Right now my plans are that I am going to keep the kit, but most likely will lower the boost, hopefully I will be up and running soon, with more dyno's, video's, vbox data, etc.
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      02-23-2011, 02:17 AM   #2
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Best of luck to you bro ... Great to hear that you got the full support from Gintani.
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      02-23-2011, 02:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Other 2008 motors have been torn down and found to have wear on the rod bearings that could have eventually failed as mine did.
Do you think this is a 2008 problem? What year was the AA car?
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      02-23-2011, 02:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808E90 View Post
Do you think this is a 2008 problem? What year was the AA car?
2008, I appreciate the kind words as well.
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      02-23-2011, 03:03 AM   #5
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Please post the complete findings when the engine is torn down and examined. A rod actually seizing onto the rod journal is a very rare occurrence.
to Gintani for footing the bill for a new long block..... that is amazing support right there!!!
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      02-23-2011, 03:45 AM   #6
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Hey man, truly hope you get your car back up in one piece soon. Good that Gintani is supporting you on this.
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      02-23-2011, 03:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
Hey man, truly hope you get your car back up in one piece soon. Good that Gintani is supporting you on this.
I appreciate that! When you PM'd me the other night asking about my car, I apologize for not telling you then, but I hope you understand my reasons, plus I was a bit surprised by your PM as I never told anyone I was building my motor up.
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ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      02-23-2011, 04:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Please post the complete findings when the engine is torn down and examined. A rod actually seizing onto the rod journal is a very rare occurrence.
to Gintani for footing the bill for a new long block..... that is amazing support right there!!!
Will do.
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ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      02-23-2011, 05:02 AM   #9
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Gintani, Wow...they are covering the long block? Thats some real customer service right there. Most FI companies wont offer this at all.
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      02-23-2011, 07:07 AM   #10
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Good luck with the rebuild bro. Gintani FTW with excellent customer service. Keep us posted.
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      02-23-2011, 07:28 AM   #11
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Hey man, Sorry about your car!
Hope to see it up and running soon.
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      02-23-2011, 08:32 AM   #12
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Saw the thread title and was having S54 flashbacks... Glad you're getting it sorted out right with Gintani.
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      02-23-2011, 08:38 AM   #13
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Sorry to hear that Drew. I hope the re-build goes smooth and your back on the road soon.
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      02-23-2011, 08:43 AM   #14
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Did the engine actually run out of oil or just low on oil? You should get the low oil light long before that happens. Certainly no oil would be destructive quickly. 2 quarts down, probably not.

This engine has been run harder than nearly all S65, but running hard does not usually lead to rod bearing failure. It may lead to a more destructive sort of failure. By the old school standards I am used to, the compression is very high for 9 to 11 psi boost, but the engine sees that for just a split second with a centrifugal supercharger. AA has been running 12-13 psi through the small HKS blower on the 11.5:1 CR S54 in the E46M3 without issue, though VF and ESS with the bigger Vortech blower stick to more like 9 psi.

Figuring out which would help the future modding of these motors.
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      02-23-2011, 08:51 AM   #15
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Sorry to hear about this. It really blows and I hope you get your car up and running soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
It appeared to have been a bad rod bearing that was causing the noise. Eventually the bearing failed, the rod seized onto the crank shaft, broke and one half came out the side of the block.
This ^ doesnt sound right (I'm not calling you out. Just trying to understand better)

1) Bearings squeel (if spun) or rattle for just about everything else. They do more than tick before total failure.
2) You would have a noticable temperature increase (good thing for the oil temp gauge)
3) Was a good degree of oil burned up from the heat of the bad/spun bearing?
4) Find out what the color of the broken connecting rod is? (bluish, from the heat?)
5) And the car never stalled or anything before the rod blew?

We have forged steel/magnesium connecting rods. I'm not sure they would just snap because of a bearing and I have never seen one seized to a crank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Other 2008 motors have been torn down and found to have wear on the rod bearings that could have eventually failed as mine did.
Right, but you also had 11psi and meth injection. The bearing issue really doesnt apply here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
The current status is that a long block is on it's way, Gintani is covering the cost of the motor and all labor, which is above and beyond what most companies would do. I am extremely thankful to them for doing so, they have always taken care of me.
Dont feel so privilaged. That's what they SHOULD do, bro. Not to mention, they know that we all know your car. It's good business for them to make good.

Once again, best of luck. (we all want to see more great videos soon with your perfectly positioned side-view window and more importantly...rear-view mirror!)
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      02-23-2011, 09:13 AM   #16
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Not laying any blame here.... But has there been a non-supercharged engine that has blown up yet? I know we've seen a number of SC engines that have blown, by a few different SC companies.

Perhaps it's not a very good idea to SC this engine???
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      02-23-2011, 09:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 808E90 View Post
Great to hear that you got the full support from Gintani.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
thumbsup: to Gintani for footing the bill for a new long block..... that is amazing support right there!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
Good that Gintani is supporting you on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshin02 View Post
Gintani, Wow...they are covering the long block? Thats some real customer service right there. Most FI companies wont offer this at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine335i View Post
Gintani FTW with excellent customer service
Baaaaa (no offense to the OP)
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      02-23-2011, 09:35 AM   #18
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12.0:1 compression is very high for SCing,not just that and running 9-11PSI is not gonna help it.
But heres my question,If its a Rod Bearing issue,why would Gintani cover that?wouldn't BMW held responsible for that?
i know that SCing a car voids the warranty and all but still,if those motors had weak Rod Bearings i think that car should've been taken to BMW to address the problem.
Im still glad to see Gintani taking care of it tho!
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      02-23-2011, 09:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
Not laying any blame here.... But has there been a non-supercharged engine that has blown up yet? I know we've seen a number of SC engines that have blown, by a few different SC companies.

Perhaps it's not a very good idea to SC this engine???
I was going to ask the same question!Without lowering the stock compression from 12 to 1 it does not suprise me that some of these failures are happening when the boost levels are elevated.At moderate boost levels (5-7 lbs)thanks to the overengineering that BMW has done on the S65 there does not seem to be these issues.I have a friend who is building Ford 5.0 Coyote engines with 11 to 1 and he feels 7 psi is the upper limit and his units are water/air intercooled.For higher boost levels he feels the compression must be lowered for reliability on pump gas.
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      02-23-2011, 09:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I was going to ask the same question!Without lowering the stock compression from 12 to 1 it does not suprise me that some of these failures are happening when the boost levels are elevated.At moderate boost levels (5-7 lbs)thanks to the overengineering that BMW has done on the S65 there does not seem to be these issues.I have a friend who is building Ford 5.0 Coyote engines with 11 to 1 and he feels 7 psi is the upper limit and his units are water/air intercooled.For higher boost levels he feels the compression must be lowered for reliability on pump gas.
I believe DLSJ5 runs Meth Injection too
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      02-23-2011, 10:13 AM   #21
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damn bad news, good luck with repairs. anyway i like that gintani seems to be stepping up to the plate and keeping the forum informed about this
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      02-23-2011, 10:18 AM   #22
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Wow sorry to hear that...

...not for nothing but that is a large amount of boost for such a high compression motor - can't say I wasn't expecting something like this.

Anyways, good luck with the rebuild and I'm glad Gintani's covering it - great customer service.
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